Ep 472: Handshake Deals to Ranches: A Deep Dive into Innovative Land Investing Strategies

Transcript

I'm very soft spoken I'm always happy I'm laughing I'm always building people up but if somebody messes with my little

tribe like man I got a very violent history ex yeah [Music]

[Applause] like like man I freaking love it it's like because you got to have half your audience has to love you and the other

half has to hate you period And even the haters love us cuz they're watching too they're they're they're silently cheering you on like I can't wait for

that [ __ ] we know today that the haters are watching us from don't we know yeah I mean people sent just got

hit with a brand new lawsuit today yeah exactly and they sent screenshots of of my social media you know like oh that

Dealing with Detractors and Embracing Challenges (0:14.The discussion moves to the dynamics of having both supporters and detractors in the audience. The importance of balancing love and hate from the audience is mentioned, with an acknowledgment that even those who seem against them are paying attention and, in a way, supporting them.

was surprising yeah I didn't know what to say too I was like uh I was like was that from today what's funny is that had he

presented that to me I would have said you flatter yourself you assume that's about you good sir I can't believe he

thought that was about you yeah anyway you know it it it's funny because

you know that certain person mentioned something that rang true with me that that perhaps old rooster is not seeing

it from his side you know and so we got into it uh but the fact is is that I I do I do see it from that side that's why

I attempted to go to the negotiating table uh very quickly you know and was actually shot down by said person who

Navigating Legal and Social Media Challenges (0:32.Personal experiences with a new lawsuit and social media scrutiny are shared, highlighting the unpredictable nature of public perception and the importance of strategic responses in maintaining one's reputation and business interests.

then uh you know tried to make it look like I didn't I was the non-negotiated when in fact I was uh but anyway it's

one of those things you know it's part of the business there's going to be misalignment there and and there

certainly was misalignment with that deal but I don't think it is I or their

uh intent to to kill a deal over that right I think feelings may have gotten hurt and uh but anybody that knows me

knows that you know the fact is that PE a lot of people look at me Allan rooster

whoever you want to call me different people call me very misunderstood people think I'm this ego driven like guy cuz I

present myself as rooster Vance on on social media but the fact is is that that's a Persona and that yeah I protect

my flock and I'm uh but I'm not an aggressor in any way or a bully or any way I'm simply uh a beast for my family

and my friends you know what I'm saying and so that's what I was going to say I I think you're more like like myself

right laughing I'm always building people up but if somebody messes with my little tribe like man I got a very

violent history ex yeah was like man you know some demons wake up the fact is is

Value of Relationships and Mindset Shifts.): The conversation shifts to personal growth, the realization of what truly matters (relationships and mindset), and the journey of turning one's life around. This segment underscores the shift from materialistic pursuits to valuing connections with people and the internal transformation that leads to genuine fulfillment.

that you know when I changed my life and my mindset into that you know the the the abundance thing and I lost the away

and got really you know turned my life around at it was at that point that I realized that that the only thing that I

truly valued was my relationships with certain people

right bro you can take the the money doesn't mean [ __ ] for me in fact so much

so that I had the harsh realiz I made money in my life and had the harsh realization when I had it that it didn't

fix anything inside of me right and so once I had that realization and then

change the other things the real things inside of me that gave me the you know got me in the mindset that I am now is

that's the power and so the ultimate power is that I realize that I have things that people can't take away from

me other than that I have nothing to lose right my children and my family and my friends and then

what's in here is the only thing that I really value you know I can sleep in a field next to a campire and be fine I

don't need a roof over my head so with that going in you know I've budded heads

with some folks and they and they just I think that they misunderstand me I'm a very simple guy but we we we had a lot

to win a lot of people had a lot to win from that deal so I hope we could renegotiate it and I'm going to leave that in your hands I know that you're

going to do a good job if you can but onward in anyway he he doesn't want me to talk about Sour deals he doesn't

realize how much a part of the business they actually are I don't even think it's a sour deal man it's it's the

nature of the business and something that I wanted to bring up is that the larger deals that you start to do the snakes really come out right when you're

doing a wholesale deal and it's me and you we're going to make 10 grand each or 20 grand each it's easy to stomach

everybody's happy some we don't even need a contract and just shoots you over the cash but when it's somebody else that you don't know and it's a multi

million dollar rench and you're standing to make 400 Grand or 800 Grand and somebody sees that on paper man the

tempers flare up people get very offended so I don't think it's something to shy away from I think it's something that you'd want to talk about because I

think people need to be cautious if you do go out you negotiate yourself a multi-million dollar Ranch and you're like hey me and my buddies made it and

you don't have a veteran on your side I mean I'm telling you right now the wolves are going to come to get you you know they that it took all of our

expertise to uh to to reel that back back into a place to where it didn't you

know cause damage to somebody's side and I certainly you know the student I had a

student that contracted that deal and you know he he told me himself he's like

you know what I don't know what I I had no idea what I'm doing but I feel like I probably learned more than any other of

your students the last few months I said I said sir you learned uh probably 10

times more than any of my students learned all year going through that deal and I said I said I know you thought you

were going to make a lot more money on it but in a couple years from now hindsight 2020 you're going to realize

how much you actually did make from that deal cuz you just fought the hardest deal there was to fight that kid

negotiated the contract I coached him through it you know we had that contract months before with another student it

fell out we came back months later got it for a couple hundred cheaper coach went fought and fought and fought for

this thing and then to end up where it's at I'm just like holy [ __ ] you know you know it's one of those deals it's a

great piece of land it's a great piece of land fantastic piece of land maybe maybe 30 on the dollar we're bringing so

much value to the table for both sides on that deal and that's why it really upset me because you know we had a buyer

that was getting a price that he loved he already loved it he signed a million-dollar contract on it right but

then to see that we're making uh you know uh 20 30% of that then you know

he's yeah people get people's blood boils but what he jumped to conclusions

and made assumptions about us and so made a move that really to me wasn't very ethical uh but when you think about

it from his shoes you know the wholesalers in general can have a bad

reputation so he certainly could have thought he was just up against some kind of uh unscrupulous wholesaler uh when

and doubt we are a team who works in full disclosure has we actually have an intermediary signed with the listing

agent on the on this on the listing agent side EX on our team they know exactly what we're doing here right so

um we did this in full disclosure they know the seller knows we're making money we brought it to market for them we

marketed the [ __ ] out of it didn't we between you lots of Firepower on the every investor in Texas saw that deal

and it fell through the crack for some reason not yet not yet it's here's why

because all we had some first off we keep the best deals and close on them for ourselves we rais the money and our

investors 143 AC right now exactly the investors make the most amount of money

from the deals we close them but when we're able to wholesale these other deals that we're not going to cherry-pick it's opportunity for

somebody and I can tell you right now that each time we've had a problem with this deal I've stopped and been like I'm

just going to go raise the 800k okay and then the next week it's like no we got a B okay I'll forget about it again but every time we hit a stop with that deal

it's like I know that we could just go raise the damn money we're busy with other deals we can allot it to other

deals so we don't necessarily need to right take it for granted that I mean we had so many buyers lined up I'm just going to fly off the shelf no need to

take it down just wholesale it yeah wholesale it and take the chunk and put that down on another deal and and roll

it but it it's it's so it's another one of those things but uh anyway so you

know we won't miss the opportunity to try to reel that buyer back in a form a strong bond with him as somebody that we

can collaborate rather than compete with because ultimately losing money on I

preach this to my students so I can't you know I can't be a hypocrite about it it's not about one deal right and so

that's why I think these guys are missing the mark because they're big buyers we we don't know them right I'm just telling you what they told us and

it sounds believable um they represent a big buyer that buys big ranches All Over Texas and so so in my mind even though

it it got a little heated uh right now we're doing the good cop bad cop thing you know rooster kind of raised his voice a little bit he was very Stern

with them and so now I'm coming in the back door like look guys you guys sound amazing somebody that we want to work with we're in the same business and this

this is what I try to tell everybody too it's like if if we're working the same thing you're working ranches we're working ranches and we're not working

together you're competing against yourself you guys send out a million dollar offer we offer one one you offer

one two we offer one three when we could have both teamed up on the deal at a million and then all that upside is ours

instead of the sellers right exactly and so you you ruin your own Market as my

grandfather would say you [ __ ] where you lay yeah you know what I'm saying so we don't [ __ ] where we lay we all lay in

the same place right we all live it's Texas it's a small country Texas you know what I'm saying but it's our

country come on yeah man and I I think that's that's kind of like uh everything that that we represent and like okay now

I got a got a little is that electric uh it's I was just having some back pain so I wanted to kick it back now actually I

thought you might want to you know i' I've been having some rough days so I was going to lean back on the couch and

see if you know we'll talk about our feelings no this thing just popped up I

I don't know it was pretty good um I just push it back in no I it's a button

there yeah oh this thing is sweet dude oh it's like

electric s g with this thing yeah so we can out yeah um no man

I I really think like our whole business model that's why when I first met you I was like this guy totally gets it uh

we're in the same business we're after the same exact properties uh you know there's only so many buyers right so

when you have a buyer pool people trying to buy multi-million dollar wrenches there's not that many buyers out there no so if we're chasing after the same

properties it's a small community I mean we're kind of a sub Comm because it's not just the land game like there's a

retail sector right and we're not even about that right but within the whole sale sector of the land game uh we have

a Str strong hold on that and so that's a much smaller Community a lot of people don't understand the power that we have

and the deals that we get as a matter of fact I see ranches that sell we'll we'll

negotiate a retail Ranch for instance something that's listed with an agent it'll be listed at 2 million for example

and we'll have bailed out of the negotiation at 1.3 because we needed it at

1.1 and your average land broker will in this market will take their or realtor

we'll have their we'll be buyer repping somebody for a $2 million Ranch and they'll take them through there and

they'll offer them 1.8 you know what I'm saying and and and so they don't realize and so that's one

of the things that we're doing is start to educate more of our realtors that come in our is that you can negotiate

really hard on land you know we go in low just because it's not the roof over

these people's heads MH so you don't Hur as many feel now we don't just go in and crush them with a blatant you slob offer

nothing offer yet something fair market Price that we we use a psychological way that we teach in our classes to kind of

feel somebody out right to get the information out of them but to let the people know what kind of a buyer we are

and if you let them know what kind of a buyer you are typically they'll ask you

uh for the offer that they want and that's a good place to start in a negotiation but either

way you know what what you've been able to do and what I've been able to do putting our communities together go out

and and take on the land game uh with the same kind of a mindset as these guys

have in the household sailing and commercial wholesaling space and to scale it and to go at it with that type

of uh you know action uh is is kind of what we're about and in doing that you

can't help but just to grow into closing on big land deals right because it's

there it's not something that is foreign to us right we've grown up around land

uh all these a lot of my friends are starting to invest in deals now because they understand right they're like these

guys are making money and land hey rooster what are you doing with land I say well we we get it at 10,000 an acre

and we divide it up and we sell it at 30,000 an acre not a bad business model

and and I said yeah exactly so they say well well that sounds simple I said well my dumb ass can do what did you couldn't

have thought it was that complicated right and they're like well no it's not that what is complicated is sourcing

your deals getting them funded keeping them organized right and so those are the you know the it's like the pitfalls

of any business as an entrepreneur you're going to open up there's there there's these walls that you got to get

through you built a a wall climbing machine I have mine CRM right and and

then I kind of did the same type of a thing so we just knocked down all the walls right and we just systemized what we do when we go after it so now we've

done that so well I know that you're just constantly raising money for your deals and I know I know a lot of your

investors uh that who have come back into my deals and we I've never met the guy in person I flew all the way to San

Diego like on a whim it was like Thursday night or something I had a dream yeah like to go see this guy like

immediately and I text him the next morning when I woke up and I said hey uh are you available Sunday he's like yeah

bought a plane ticket that day flew into San Diego Saturday went to the guy's house and I'm like I need to borrow $10

million to start this fund and uh he's like I'm gting come on that's called

taking taking massive action right you you can't sit on that and that's the thing is like you when you have when you

have that momentum you can't sit on that you got to go because when you have that

feeling you have that energy you have that positivity people are going to read off that they want to be a part of that

now when you fail in that state is when you're not an expert in what you do but you're an expert in what you do and you

knew and you had the confident yourself so you went out there and and did that and I love that because that's how I am too when I'm when I'm ready to do

something I'm sure then I go after it and I think that a lot of people come into both of our uh mentorship programs

and and that we teach them we can teach them uh you know the land stuff within a few days and then it's more about

mindset right like like a lot of uh mentorship gu with a strong head on his shoulders over a seasoned person any day

you have a 17year agent struggling and a brand new kid who's just making amazing offers and getting deals I have a

21-year-old kid right now who's negotiating a $3 million wrench I love that kid I love him uh he's you know

this is he is a uh Underdog Story right what did that kid have that others don't

he didn't have a veil of negativity right yeah he's single he

doesn't have any kids so he doing he's doing it right right but he didn't have the chance to go to college he couldn't

afford that he' actually I think been maybe been to jail once or twice in his life he comes from a com from the street

for sure but he's got a great heart and he's a good kid and he's got his kid got

right and so you put a kid like that to work and you change his life from somebody that you know may have never uh

been able to excel past mediocrity because of his environment and upbringing and you give M million dollar

land deal I said you're going to be fine you know no

but I I I I love the story and we keep hearing stories like that I've never heard of a 21-year-old kid do a

negotiating and it's not just a wholesale deal that's a deal y'all are going to close on Creative Finance creative Finance me the whole nine man

he got long-term debt on it I mean this going to need 260 on it I'm like mail and marketing and and uh

pushing that forward and looking for some and he's and he's uh shout out to Freddy he's crushing that Somerset area

out there which is a great area for the owner finance exits like uh like you

love to do in demand we we listed an 11 acre tract for $199 and it sold in a day come on I mean

that's you know why though here's the deal is you're bringing value there look on the MLS the same tracks probably 235

no owner financing office they said we're looking we looked everywhere like so as soon as that deal popped up they jumped on it the next day there was

something wrong with the survey they said we don't care just call us when it's ready to close yeah yeah so that's

the thing with land is that uh you just get people look at it they attach

themselves their dream to it and there's never a perfect piece of property so

when people are shopping for property they always have you know a wish list but they're always kind of willing to

give and take it seems like so if a l if a piece of land has a good value it's in a a generally good location we can move

it pretty quick you know and and I love what y'all have done with this positions you know the fact that uh we've been

able to do more deals I've been able to do more deals and plan to do more deals with y'all and the Hy mind crew is uh

because y'all are so efficient at dispositions you have a big dispositions team don't y'all yeah man and lots of

good people so these people they're not uh by the hour they're not um you know promised anything we just say hey look

if you want to take a look at what we're doing you're welcome to come in and they're like they're there I mean they're voluntary they're learning they

have access to all of our resources uh but something that that I really love about the community is that everybody's

helping everybody and as cheesy as that sounds like I'll drop a new person in the group and I'm like hey guys introduce you know whoever um they came

on board they want to help us now and everybody's like call me if you need anything I'll help you get set up immediately that's awesome the whole

entire group man just literally so I'm like it's just the Synergy in there is so powerful um again it just points at

what we're building on both sides where where uh people really do care about each other we have the same vision we we're all in very much in alignment and

it's very clear man and and so the success that the team is having it's like yeah well of course you know

because everybody's in it to win it just works I mean we're doing the same we're doing a similar thing but uh we also

have specialize in our different things so we're able to allow each other you know each other to

concentrate on our strengths which is cool though I've got you know I'm learning a lot from you and uh and I'm

Pro you're probably getting a lot of bad habits rubbed off on you from me I don't

know but uh but anyway so it's been good bro but you know 2024 come on I know uh

we have got so many deals in the pipeline we're wholesaling a couple right but we've both got like uh you've

got several hundred acres yall are working on a deal right now uh there another creative one out there in po cre

0% interest I mean the whole nine man and uh and home and y'all had uh a a uh

a joint venture or you had uh was it Mr burto that Daniel that worked with Y on

that deal a new guy a brand new person uh that just found out about H man probably 90 days ago or something or 60

days ago is the one that found the deal I met him at your event and now he's uh Consulting for me on a business level

he's a great guy really good guy's he'll make over six figures on on his very first deal you know so come on that's a

beautiful deal never even been in theame I'm so happy uh for him and y'all to have met I met him at y'all's event you

know and he asked me some stuff about land I said yeah yeah this this and he uh and uh and then I said man I I could

use some advice and he said why don't I just put you on my weekly call schedule

and put you on board and and let me help you and I said brother uh I'd appreciate

that very much so you know with me is I'm a Visionary and I'm an action taker I move so fast that I it's hard to stay

organized but and so for me to slow down and get really organized it's kind of cripples me it puts the shackles on me

right so I need these team members in place for me to be efficient and to not be wasting my time or spinning my wheels

and Daniel has helped me do that so it's just another example of somebody coming

into the community bringing their value and receiving value and it Rippling down

through all of our families literally and all of our businesses you know it's

a beautiful thing and so ever since uh I really moved completely into the land

space it's been like my I had a you a new family started to build right you

know and so uh I'm very I feel very grateful and blessed for that guys you know I'm

looking forward to seeing everybody in a few days at the 5 acre giveaway we're

doing shout out to Jesse for hosting that too man Jess he's been a real powerful cool connection as soon as he

came on board he started offering hey I can help I got a studio I got a bunch of you know hey we we can we can do the

giveaway at the house and so all the contributions from from you man has been amazing dude thank you good just another

person that just like he didn't have to go to orientation exactly he didn't have to read the instruction manual he just

saw the vision and said let's do this he came in and and and whereas a lot you

know there's a lot of guys that have paid 50 Grand to come into our upper level Community but Jesse was came in as

a a friend and provided value he's a realtor first up front yeah and just gave and gave and so and plus he's just

our kind of dude and uh and it works well for uh for uh as a meeting spot for

you and I CU he kind of lives about halfway in between us I think yeah this is perfect great location like I just

came from the title company in Sig like 40-minute drive like dude I'll be 30 minutes people have no idea how much we

drive like even Jesse was looking at my miles on my truck he's like 180,000 the other day I was like he's like how old is this truck it's like it's a few years

old you know I mean I put a couple miles on it you know but yeah like so the

reason I run a diesel man if if you're going to be in the rench game you know you can do it virtual I know some guys talk about virtual and they love it to

death but I'm a boots on the ground guy man yeah I'm jump wire fences I'm avoiding snake that's why I'm in the I

came from the land space from that more you know what I'm saying not from an office like cuz when I did houses I was

the same thing I was remodeling them right and so when I was flipping houses

I was I built a Remodeling Company after that that's why I stopped flipping houses because I do have a remodeling

background I would always get myself involved like I got them oh TI guy didn't show up I'll throw this wall up today exactly it's like just when they

get me back or just when I get out they suck me back in that's exactly what he wants do to I cannot be around and

remodel all I love a lot of my friends their house flippers around San and in Texas and they make their videos and

their content like I'm flipping this house and my stomach turns like well these are people that are able to deal with stress better than you or I maybe

after 20 years of doing that it's not funny anymore I don't even I don't want to shoot a video about remodeling a house well everybody gets that house

flipping bug but after you flip about a half a house I think the bug goes away for most people just walking into Home

Depot in Lowe's right now makes me nauseous dud me too bro I I I have I used to go to Home Depot and L you know

three four times a day yeah maybe more maybe more seven or eight I think was my record one time on like my it was a

second or third flip of mine but my first flip you know I slept in on a air mattress you know was after my divorce

was after my divorce I just it was an hour from my house and and uh I had uh

My Girls when they were stay with me I have my mom at the house so I was staying half the time up at those flip

houses and flipping them and and doing all the work that I could but uh yeah it

it was man I ran no more of that it it it was I learned a lot from I know you learned a lot right we wouldn't change

anything but there's no reason uh to to scale that type of a business when you

could scale a real estate business it's just there's no comparison and it takes the same kind of mind to

understand it it's the exact same strategy mental I was thinking about it let's say you buy a house and you flip it and you make it look amazing and you

make 50 Grand or 100 Grand whatever the magic number is 30 days 60 days 90 days 6 months whatever it takes you

uh so we're breaking up that that 200 acre rench down there in Somerset right now every single tract like the profit

from every single tract sold is like 80 to 100 Grand yeah you sell 18 of those right that's a pretty good pretty good

run and and we've already sold maybe six or seven tracks in like less than 30 days and you set that up with creative

financing that's a$2 million deal that you're doing with a half million dollars in cash zero interest zero out of pocket

for me right cuz right you do the same thing Pace does you get private money in there and so you're zero

poet share the profits you you but you you got yourself a deal that's going to make a couple million bucks so bringing

in an investor for 500 Grand there how can I make such a good return investing in these land deals well that's because

we're going to use your 500 Grand as a down payment to make couple million bucks real quick in in a year less than

a year likely and so there's plenty of money to share there with the investor

that's why we're always raising Capital because uh I think when somebody goes out to start a fund or raise capital Capital something you have to keep in

mind is that you have to have a a deal pipeline long enough to like sustain that amount of capital so if you ask

somebody hey can I borrow $10 million you better have like a 20 or $30 million Pipeline and in our case AB we have an

unlimited deal flow right so we can we can borrow hundred million in place it pretty quickly right um so yeah our

bottl KN is is funds just because for one thing is I don't just let anybody

invest in my deals I thing you got you got to love your investors and they better love you it's going to be long ride so I love for people to come and

talk to me about land and say hey I got some money to do my you want to partner on a land deal and I'm like always my

first answer is always yes right but once we get to that lunch or that dinner some of those phone calls I think

there's there's some that make it through to the deal and some that don't and it may be a mutual feeling that hey

you know what I'm not we just turn down $500,000 ask ask Burke ask him had a guy

ready to go and uh we we after talking to him a couple of times I said man I just I don't have the warm and fuzzies

that I want exactly some some investors uh you know they they come they come

they're like my they come like my ex-wife right with with a lot of uh

butts you know like you can have the money but that's that's that's that's kind of what I get right and and it's

like I don't do that I have a I have a guy right now one of my best investors that that would lend us money in a

heartbeat uh he just lent us over 400 Grand he's not even on title mhm he just sent me the 400 Grand send it back when

it's ready yeah right so it's like not we everybody we don't want everybody to be that Carefree right so don't mislead

you guys and say it has to be that way but when you do have somebody that says cool I'm going to send you a million but this but that but this but that and

they're just scared to death you'd rather just not even take that person's money yeah that person's going to get the the lowest Roi I guarantee you that

your your boy that shoots you the 400k get the sweetest Roi of anybody right oh

we we load that guy up for sure because he's just like hey we need 100 Grand tomorrow and he's like cool send

me the wiring instructions he doesn't look at the deal he doesn't vet the deal he's already Ved us enough to know that like hey if they need it I know I'm

going to get paid yeah so in 3 four months later he gets back 150 Grand on his 100 I

mean come on yeah people sit around and people sit around and learn the stock

market to try to to make 20% of that Roi perom you know what I'm saying it's like

you don't got to do that yeah I was like I was you calculate our yearly percentage it goes nuts it doesn't make

sense anymore it doesn't make sense yeah we you know typically we love to the I what I love about the land game what

really in the beginning I was like man I can take a 500 Grand and I I I think I can double this a couple of times per

year and that was my first inkling of the doing the deals in the land game that's exactly what we're looking at

yeah you can double up every six months and and and probably twice in a year it's crazy right and so uh to be able to

do it once is is is is enough you know so some folks that want to double up on

their money in four six S8 months whatever it is and then take the money back home and sit on it for the rest of

the time and they've already made 50% on it that's doable but the fact is is that every time they get the ROI back are are

are these folks is that we're human right so what do you want to do you want to pump another 100 in the slot machine

but we always have a deal flow to do it so it's the same thing so it's a culture here and so this it can be those type of

returns but your money sits in it like it's in the stock market just compounds and compound so imagine

compounding um popping a million in one of our land deals and then whatever it

paid them say they got back a million and a half nine months later a year later and then rolling that all right

back in for about five years right there's absolutely no reason that they

they couldn't uh double that money up almost every year you know if the market

stayed right and everything but just doing it one year you're going to average Roi of the S&P 500 for five

years you know what I'm saying pretty cool Daniel's more of a numbers guy and he likes to like look at like for the

returns and the percentages and he likes to math it out and play with the calculator the 10bii shout out to denu

and uh the numbers get exponential it gets crazy man so it's just cool to be in a space where we're this well insulated yeah um I talked to an

attorney today I was I was I was chatting with him and he was uh I was over at his office and he was like you

know are you guys uh you know you know the Market's changing now and I was like we're buying it 20 cents on the dollar

30 cents on the dollar I said and then we're selling it even cheaper right so we we do take the property to retail but

we still don't sell at retail we still sell Below Retail so I mean even if the market completely tanks and we buy for

20 or 30 cents and now we got to sell it for 50 or 60 cents I mean we're still doing okay buying in bulk at wholesale

price Okay so there's an inherent discount of buying in bulk already with lest game in the book yeah and so once

you take that bulk and then buy that at wholesale then you're at a 3 to four times factor and so a market cooling is

not going to put you in uh in the red no and I think that's what's cool about this and I heard of I saw actually a Tik

Tok yesterday from a big investor that I follow he's a guru right he probably has millions of followers and uh he talked

about how he took a he took a real bad beating right now he said because the interest rates Rose so high like faster than they ever before in history lost

millions of dollars theal Mon and us us in land I feel like okay

maybe there's cooler fancier projects out there multif family or commercial everybody's doing uh in Flex space and

there's all this cool stuff people are chasing after but I think land is it's the foundation for everything man and

there's buyers right now we we have a buyer right now uh on this 200 acre ranch they're coming in with 350k in

cash right um and and it's a a Spanish speaking person right so you're looking

at people that sophisticated investors that again they're doing commercial and they're very bankable and they got the the spreadsheets and the personal

guarantees ready to go but the guys sitting with cash might they might not be that bankable and they're always

ready to buy land that's right so land to me is in a market in within our Market that goes up and down you know

you've got things that are infrastructure that's built on land but as you strip away whatever that

infrastructure it is you typic you Recession Proof that land

is the foundation like you said like right and so in a down Market people are

speculating land the big guys are buying it up when it's low and so we service those guys right we're wholesaling guys

since it cooled off we've been wholesaling land to some big investors right and so we've had no problem there

and because you're able to use creative Finance to have owner finance exits you're having no problem exiting out of

your properties uh as the interest rates Rose and markets cooled because owner

finance uh buyers they expect to pay high interest rates anyway and they'll pay a premium

for the property because it's a it's it's a privilege for them uh for a lot of these buyers to have the opportunity

to buy some land even though uh you know the interest might be a little bit higher to give for their lack of credit

and and uh and whatnot but somebody broke it down to me very beautifully

recently and I had never heard this before but they're like you know what you guys are doing I like you don't even know what you're doing right and I'm like telling L like you guys are doing

um mortgage Arbitrage mhm there's no loan products for what you guys are doing you guys are creating those loans

and then moving the paper yeah they're like so you're you're there's no product for that like no loans so like you guys are the bank for that product you have

noide powerful what you're doing is it's very powerful I know even you know Jesse and I have one another thing we both

used to work in the Auto industry and and and it's the same thing for that

like uh uh I just based on that thought we went for a

minute no dude I love these conversations too and I I could probably talk about this stuff for 10 hours but

yeah you think about it that there's there's not a loan product that Services these individuals the people want the land they have the cash very very well

qualified buyers but maybe they don't have A1 credit or maybe they go to you know Wells Fargo or security service and

they say no we're not landing on land right now the Market's crap and so we give them a loan and you can sell it and

that's what I was getting back with the car by by providing financing for cars and subprime financing they will always

sell cars you know uh they'll just move the financing around for them no matter

what you know so uh to be able to provide that financing is huge you create your own your own machine and

provide and that's huge amount of opportunity for people you know that couldn't otherwise do that and uh a lot

of these folks are will be buying at a time to where yeah the land price is have gone up a lot in the last few years

but it isn't over dude there's a housing shortage the they just let in 8 million

people right into the United States we're need a lot more housing uh last

year we didn't build enough apartment new apartment units to cover for immigration that's so housing is is as

soon as these interest rates start to come down and come down and these things and and uh and and we get all Biden out

of office because Lord knows that he's just Hallelujah he he he's getting a little up there you know at this point I

don't even care who replaces him as long as it's not Hillary but uh anyway oh yeah you know then uh there's it's going

to flow baby come on the land is distry like it's going to be doing so well so I

I'm excited about the you know all the opportunities and the deals that we're going to be doing brother because we got we're growing our Acquisitions team

we're raising money diso team's growing capital's growing just very blessed man because I I do see a lot of people

suffering right now in this economy so for us to just be moving the way that we are and the way that sales have been

like continuing it's like man not saying it can't get worse not saying that we're not going to hit bottom you know so we

pray every day but I mean just the way things have gone up to this point I'm man I'm just like so thankful so blessed

to be in this space like wow I'm just literally I think we've had like maybe sold like 12 ranches like in

the last 30 or 45 days I mean come on SO and and I'm talking about ranchets right so you take a big cut them 10 acres 20

acres but literally like 12 cells 10 12 cells like in the last 45 days when

people are out there suffering in a dying Market we sold 1.2 million this week MH uh oh actually sorry not this

week in one day this week yeah yeah and the guys were all celebrating over there at the house at the Christmas party

together you can acquire all the deals you want you can raise all the money you want but if you can't dispo the

properties out you're you're you know you're going to have some issues and and you have been doing that uh for a few

years heavier than I have as far as subdividing and selling parcels and you came up against walls and you found that

you know when that to sell something faster and for a premium to provide

financing or to partner with financers who will buy your note after you create it or at the table empowered you to

change the game uh in your business and and so what we do and what you're B to

do is for the people that we raise money from our partners that you know you might get a creative financing deal like

we're talking about earlier you need a half Mill partner throws you a half Mill you're going to go make a million

dollars with it there's plenty of money for that investor and to get their uh to

get their Roi your track record speaks for itself you've built a software and a

machine to do everything in a team so there's no um give Anthony $10 million

and he scon with it to Costa Rica right like you're dug in this is what you

don't even do it for the money I've seen you give away money I've seen you land right now AR yeah exactly right so but

but you're like me we're we're too stupid to do it for the money you know we just do it for the the deal making

and the camaraderie and the family it builds and the and the success we get to feel as men and create and build

legacies for our family and uh money is a tool to do all of that yeah I I think

uh you get to a certain point right when when you when you we've all been in scarcity before at least most of us have

and um once you start to make a little bit of cash um you start to realize again like you said earlier you alluded

to that um the relationships are everything man and it really is the relationships like right now um I know a

very very well put together business here in San Antonio um they have a little mobile home on some land that

they will let me have for 95,000 I have a buyer ready to go at 130 right now so just from having that relationship that

I've nurtured over the last several years mean $335,000 in an afternoon and and I haven't even signed the contract

yet but it's already sold and that's just deal those are just those are uh let's just deal flow they just flow

through what you've created through people that know us and trust us and love us that we've worked with for a very long time you know so it's really

easy to to hand over a deal to somebody like I say hey man you got a buyer for this yes cool I'm going to send it to you just send me whatever you got like

today my team told me that we have two deals closing right now that I forgot about mhm you know and uh I had to put a

couple dollars into forgetting about closing yeah I had put a couple dollars into those deals and they're like how much do you want to make on the the

money that you put into there how much interest are you charging the deal I said you know don't pay me any interest on that money I said just give me back

my cash and everybody gets their even cut yeah because those people have been with me for such a long time right why

do I want them to lose because I had a couple of bucks put into the deal yeah yeah yeah like no let's be fair they've

worked very hard sometimes say a lot it says a lot it says and that's why people come back to do deals with you cuz

you're bringing a little bit more to to the table right you're putting your money where your mouth is and you're not even expecting a you know I'll put up

that and I don't need an Roi there just an even cut so that says to me and we've done these deals together like me and

you uh we have to run and fill out a JV format closing me and you and turn it in because we just did a six-month deal on

a handshake million deal like that no yeah no uh I mean but is that level of

trust that you have with somebody where you know this guy's not going to get me exact and I have been bitten a couple times this year a couple times nowly

but uh again it's like it's me thinking like yeah on a spreadsheet I lost a couple dollars but at least you cut

somebody out of your life and out of your business that's not going to you're not going to bite me again you can do it once that's cool but we have so much

deal flow yeah um and and you know like have enough good relationships where I know tomorrow you'll call me and be like

hey man I got something you got to buy we got another deal we're constantly fishing yeah there's going to be something we'll get something we're

going uh going next week the week after whatever it is it's always another deal so yeah and like we talked about earlier

deals can go sideways for a minute and you know you get emotional because you have these expectations and I get

emotional uh because I have students wrapped up in the deals and I want it so badly for them that's another thing too

man when my new people they're so hyped up you know they're ready to get a deal like the person that brought the buyer

uh for the deal that blew up the other day she's a young kid too she's she's

really excited she was going to make a nice big payday and then so this for this guy to snatch it out of our hand like of course you're going to get

flared up cuz we not just protecting like our our own deal but we have other people behind us that we're trying to take care of and that's right they have

families and I've met their families and it's like man I'm so excited this girl's about to make a ton of cash on this deal and so somebody tries to steal it from

us it's like man you didn't steal from us we'll be okay you stole from these kids exactly you know so he stole uh you

know time from from us right in in in the fact that I had to I had to go

through some emotional processes so that time was taken from me but ultimately

uh you know when we get into those emotional states we have to be able to ring ourselves in and and may not have

been so good at that as young men but we got to ring ourselves in and say all right no emotions in real estate that's

what I always say and I tell my no emotions in real estate you know but

even as much as you tell yourself that you you usually can't tell that to your opposing you know your your uh whoever

you might be at odds with if that's the case and also uh there's these ego

things that we have you know and they're tough they're tough with if we had no ego this would all be uh much simpler

you know but you think about it even the last Monopoly game I played 20 years ago with my brothers there was some ego in

that so there's certainly doing this business without ego is might be it's

easier said than done yeah yeah that's yeah exactly like I said man there's a lot of reasons to get emotional but I

think the the kind of the cure for that is a deal flow for one like you said maturity um I was just as fled up as you

were but um I knew like for sure like hey on this conversation it's not going to move localize it so now I I stayed

super calm on the call and then I came back you already knew what I was going to do you're like I don't need to do that that's great though that's great because now like hey these guys are so

mad you know whatever and then I come around the back door now I'm playing Mr Nice Guy like okay yeah we could still

work this out and kind of stuff so the deal is not dead until it's dead exactly and that's because you know ultimately

we're deal makers but that's not how we wanted it to be right maybe Fell's watching this down the line I don't know

who if we're going to even publish this but the fact is is that we never it never should have gotten to be like this

no I actually I actually enjoy it right so I used to sell time share uh you know 100 years ago and uh that was probably

one of the biggest like psychological lessons that we learned is that if you have somebody on the other end of the table and they're completely passive

right so this guy's like murdering us while he's very calm about like a sociopath um it's better to even flare

that person up a little bit so you push on their emotions a little a little bit so you can tick them off you can make him feel bad sad whatever it is and that

guy was very nonchalantly stealing ORD deal from us so a little bit of that flare up was actually fantastic it's

exactly what we needed so that way he knows like hey these guys aren't playing games and then that gives me the opportunity and that's actually what I

did at the job was a big part of what I did is when a when a table was blowing up and the people were super mad they'd

send me in to calm them down mhm so I'm glad that that you got a little little them because then it gives me the

opportunity to do what I'm naturally going to do is come back and even though I'm heated I'm like hey man sorry about understanding you're still going to need

you to buy this deal here's the thing is I my you know I was raised in South Texas my dad and my grandpa they

handshake Fellers and I'm a handshake guy man we me and my dad a construction and we did a lot of jobs on a handshake

we never used I didn't start using contracts and so I started doing like big hundred, million dollar roofs then

we started using contracts I did everything I've done everything on a handt my whole life exactly and and so

for somebody to say that I get too upset because I'm the type of a person I trust

anybody and I give everybody opportunity that I can until they they take they

have that taken it away by their actions you know it's like it just didn't need to go down you

did the perfect amount of pressure you weren't you didn't go over the top or nothing but you let them know sternly that hey we're not going to let you just

steal this deal right from under it's not going to happen right and he didn't like that at all because he turned to another person in our conversation who

and and tried to make them offer in front of all of us for a very small amount of money which he what he doesn't

know doesn't even cover our cost on the deal right that's what I was thinking to for for the amount of cash involved

right a couple hundred grand whatever uh to to like snake somebody was like we could make you that 10 times over this

year next year in 24 you know just by being in business with us you could make several times that but if you're going

to steal the first one it's so it's so funny that people have such a shortage of deals that they'd have to that

they're willing to steal for a deal right and we have because we built machines deal finding machines we have

no shortage of deals so I'm not worried about yeah not have we we'll have another deal closing next week next

month whatever but the fact is is that I I don't like people doing business like

that in our in our circles and I don't like being uh talked to like I was talk

to and treated like I was treated in order to get myself in a state of height

and motion like I got you know now I wasn't screaming right but I certainly

had a raised level and a and a tone right and that's nothing different than

what you I think you handled yourself amazing but you let them know like Hey we're not we're not going there guy but anyway you know it just here's the thing

is there's no hard feelings about any of it it's like it's a deal but it was a Christmas deal for our team for several

team men that's what kind of got me man it's it's the holidays and these young kids are about to make a good amount of

money right before Christmas that's a good feeling so I was emotionally wrapped up in the deal myself especially

for our people that upset me that upset me and so uh anyway but you know there's we have so much good to uh we're going

to be back here at this venue uh in a few days to give away the 5 acres and uh

By the time if anybody sees this that'll be done and uh and who knows we'll be

riding off into the sunset of course that'll be a sunset of another ranch we're subdividing dude I I just feel

like I said man everything that's happened this year we got a couple lawsuits going I just think that uh it's

I just feel super super blessed to be able to even be in a position to give away land yeah I me like and that was

always a dream when when me and Daniel started Hive M we said we want to give away real estate that's our ultimate vision is to give it away right like Mr

Beast or something yeah like we just want to be able to bless other people's lives and now there and even my dad goes

what's the gimmick like what are you guys getting out of it I'm like nothing literally nothing there's no there's no

there's no upside for us other than to bless somebody's life that could absolutely use it but there will be because that's the way the universe

works brother somebody those who put in the positive put in the work and give to

the balance to keep the balance they'll be blessed I think and

so and so and so but no that's not why we're not doing business when we give

this five acres away right it's not because we we hope to see an Roi on it in in dollar amount it's because it's

going to be awesome we're going to get to do it and yeah it it gives it shines light on our businesses but dude we're

getting to change somebody's life it's going to be anybody call the news get the news over here like we're literally giving away 5 Acres you know it's so

silly because I actually was I we were at uh the investor underground event and there was an Austin news anchor there

and I spoke to him for a minute about it but uh it's funny because well it's Austin you know that liberal news I

don't know you know the guy he's five acres he's like I don't I don't know if I if I would have if we were giving it

to the right person you know we might have had to have people feel uh it might have had to have a the right pronoun you

know or something like that right we had to give it to a she them or whatever

that was like sir M never mind you won do

youall have do youall have one of every gender like how many genders are there I don't what year is it again I don't know

no no I'll tell you right now there's two genders but there are other genders that think they're other genders

whatever that means my My Philosophy is do whatever the heck you want be whatever you want at home don't make me

play participate exactly nobody ever gave a [ __ ] anyway right nobody gave a [ __ ] from the beginning exactly and so

for and so that's the whole thing is that a lot of people like to tell us that we have problems we don't have and

then give us a solution for that problem and that was a problem we never had right it's a new age it's a new age

there's 350 million people in the United States 12 people uh needed a pronoun right and so now we

went through all of that you know par it's the same thing with Co you know they shut the country down you know but

anyway so I didn't shut down I still had to keep working man I was here's another thing about land is amid all of this

political turmoil and the and the world being uh you know on the brink of God

knows what else other Wars land is is the foundation of everything like we talked about again but being in the land

business you're always going to have a bugout spot right dude I love it if the world ends the zombies come you know

where you're going to go people want to get away from the city right a lot of unsold Parcels in different spots you

have you have a lot of exits in the event of Armageddon I'm thinking too man like even just from like a a

generational standpoint right like my parents didn't have no land but I hear like my friend like oh my we out at my

parents ranch or like oh my parents property and oh the horse is over there at my my my dad's place like damn I

never got to experience that you know and and there's millions of people right probably 99% of people have never told

that story right so for us to be able to like man you see these people with their kids I had I'll tell you a story real

quick one of my buyers who was buying on another Ranch um we found a legal problem with it right so we couldn't uh

close with the end buyers just yet so it is going through the legal process and then uh so now we're selling him a

couple of ranches off of the the new the 200 acre tract and uh yeah I even talked to him and I said hey man um he's like

when are going to be able to close and all this stuff and I told him he you know it's probably going to be mid January before we get all of our surveys and everything back and um he's like

yeah he's like cuz of that other property um he went in there and he did do a little bit of cleaning up in there and all that he's like spend a little

bit of good time and money out there at that at that other property I just want to make sure it doesn't happen again and I said dude I said literally I'll give

you the first ride of refusal on that property when it's ready to close I said or send me an invoice and I'll just pay you when it's when that property what

whatever and he said dude he said I'm not worried about you one bit he said you've been amazing cuz he's ready ready to build a family for him a house for

him and his family they just had a brand new baby so he's just like man you you have been amazing so I gave this young kid an opportunity to build a house on

land you know that's something that I've never had my parents didn't have none of my cousins have you get to be a part of that you get to provide those

opportunities dud over and over and over again man so I don't know what other business you could be in literally like

every we're changing people's lives like and and people tell me all the time dude you have no idea how how you're changing people's lives and I'm like I guess I

never stop to think about it but when I do true freaking amazing dud it's amazing real estate does it the land

space has proved to be something amazing specially for us Texans so I love it brother I love what you're doing we'll

see see you in a few days at the five acre giveaway right here that right somebody's going to win five acres D I'm

so excited I don't even know who it is yet and I'm like that's a baddest ass thing that I've ever heard like if somebody gave me five acres I'd be like

what the heck I I'm excited for somebody yeah it's it's it's it's an honor to be a part of it brother so I appreciate you

you're a good man we got some we got we got a we got a lot of good deals coming man and a a shout out to Jesse again man

we're going to be doing me and Jesse you know we're launching Ranch Lander realy

and that's going to give us more support in what we're doing in our land deals right and uh but we're going to be doing

a podcast right here Ranch the ranch Lander podcast come on and so we're going to when we launch our first formal

uh episode here in the next week or two we're going to get you out so with wrench ler you're going to be building a

brokerage where you guys are all selling and going after lend uh yeah what we want to do is you know I've been

educating I've been teaching wholesalers how to wholesale right and we've had a lot of Realtors come into that Community

into my into my rooster Vance uh you know land flipping classes and I and

then in working with uh uh Jesse henz my partner he is a realtor with a brokerage

out of Austin uh Tey real estate or trade and they're heavy into investment uh uh raising money you know

funding deals finding deals in the commercial and and residential Spide and so we've loved to see what they've been

able to do and we want to kind of mimic that in the land space so we're building our brokerage under uh Tey right and

it's going to be uh Ranch Lander our own brand here and we're going to build a team of Realtors and train them and

Empower them to go out find and execute land deals so not only that uh because

they will essentially become experts they will be uh you know a new kind of

the new m old new breed of your farm and ranch realtor this I think this takes uh

uh the the real estate or the um realy side of being a licensed realtor to the next level yeah because now you're

learning from somebody like yourself who's like the the the list buying list game I mean that's it's the easiest game

you could play right but the amount of leads that we're going through that are not appropriate for an investor or a wholesale deal exactly now they can go

right through a brok we create a ton of leads you know that are dead leads to us yeah and so we'll be able to turn off

feed all those to Ranch Lander realy maybe we'll get listings maybe we'll get buyer reps you're going to get a lot of

everything man I I think that the level of Interest you're going to generate and the people they're going to come on board just I think even having these

these properties is land listed like it wasn't good for an investor but it's perfect for a retail and you list it

well now you have all that stuff in your pipeline we know how to price it correctly we can tell them look we know

what investors are going to pay for this we know where to come in right A lot of these properties that we're buying uh

for a million dollars they've been listed on the MLS for 2 million for a year one of my guys had one right now

that was like 14 million or something and they're negotiating it right now at 4 million exactly some some realtor some

broker somewhere gave him an outrageous price never going to sell placeholder price exactly and so that is horrible

strategy what we're coming across in the landspace and the big landspace is that a lot of these Realtors are not doing

their clients any justice with the listings they're they're they're doing for them they're Mis uh they're

misinformed or

underinformative a year I think the the realtor's already out of contract and he's still trying to you know get it

moved right but he's still as stubborn as he was on day one and I bet you that family needs and wants that money this

guy already put it in their head they're going to get such a high number it's not so far away from reality it's not going to happen he didn't have the the talk

with them from the beginning about reality you know and uh and and sometimes clients need to be be fired

and so you know in ranchland or realy we might be famous for firing clients who

knows eventually because we're not going to we're not going to allow listings to sit and stagnate we're bringing more

value to the table we're actually going to say look if y'all if we're listing a property we have the power to say look

if you really want that price per acre uh we could do a subdivide right we don't even have to do a big subdivide

let's carve those four acres at the front Road sell those for 40,000 an acre

and then you can sell the rest for this and you're going to average out this and that's how you're going to get your money so they end up with the exact same

amount of money they had in mind but you have real strategy going promises exactly and wait till

they finally you know they finally just uh agree to a price so that just can't

work because land overtime is usually either going up or down in value you

know it's not just sitting sitting sitting and so here we're blessed with we know that it's uh it's kind of

stagnant right now but it's staying in value but it's going to go back up again because the numbers all show that all we need is for money to be affordable again

uh because we have a housing shortage so also we have Trends heavily the trends

online and you can do the research and development I mean the the R&D uh as far

as the the numbers on people wanting to Homestead now is ridiculous it's

ridiculous so there's I think I honestly think that what's coming in our space we

we don't even realize because of the demand for 5 10 20 acre tracks to be

more affordable for people to move into that homee is going to be more than we've ever seen it's just going to be

exponential I keep telling everybody on my team I was like things are going just fine going amazing yeah but I'm like if we're doing this good in the recession

come on I don't even know if we're in one but if we're doing this good right now I said wait until the runup only the runup comes wow yeah oh and we're in a

recession you know you can hear folks uh spreading the fear that oh we're actually in a depression they're just

not saying it you know so we're certainly in we've certainly recessed Pro we recessed Pro hopefully

just to correct from a little bit of a bubble that we were in I can tell you right now God is my witness you guys

know I don't embellish and I don't lie we have been doing just fine I'm not saying we're exploding but we have been

very consistent through this recession like we haven't felt it at all yeah you designed a business that's Recession

Proof essentially because you bring more value to the table we you're right we you're by providing Parcels at an

affordable price and then bringing financiers in to help these folks Finance it it's just that's if you look

at historically in Texas people have been doing that for a long time but it's not been a real uh known thing there's

been some I've known some old Farmers that have owned thousands of acres and they've sold it off you know back in the

day with financing over a long term so creative financing a land is achievable

because people have been financing land with seller financing for a long time

you know and people have been subdividing land and selling it with seller financing for a long time to make

themselves a lot more uh money with a lot less tax implication right so we're

not doing anything different what we're doing is we're applying it to a market that needs it inadvertently I think that

whether you realize it or not I think you know y'all certainly want to do cash deals but you you saw that the ability

to to bring the financing to the day were create the notes and to hold them or sell them is again like we said it's

not just empowerment it's uh it's brilliant because you just match it up with like oh well this is this is what

we need to do right now we got the same piece of land right we can sell all of it uh cut up for just under $3 million

MH which is a million over what we're paying for the property or I can sell it all on seller financing for a lot closer

to 5 million mhm right so creating a a $2 million spread out of thin air MH and

then repurposing that paper but like I said you do need the finance years yeah right so we need those private investors

um that have access to Capital that's just laying around doing nothing and we say hey we can get you a strong return

times two right cuz you could make some money sitting on that paper for a little while and whenever you're ready to get out of it we can get you another large

injection of capital too so I think it's like you said it's a perfect storm um lots of different strategies being

combined building a reputation of of being able to perform and do these deals over and over again it's just a gaping

hole in the marketplace man like you said completely underserved clients there's no loan products for it in place

we're creating the loan product right so effectively we are the bank right we're borrowing from private investors and then turning that into paper giving

people an opportunity on assets that they would never otherwise pick up it's like that's right it's just a perfect storm it's a perfect Symphony of a lot

of different strategies man and I think this is just the beginning it's it's cool to even be a part of it I wish I could say that I was smart enough to

have thought of all this but it's guys like you Daniel Jesse of all of us putting our heads together making the connections

putting putting this all together man it takes it takes a lot of concerted effort on our side and um I think anybody would

take if they knew exactly what we were doing they would want to take a closer look at it Absolut and get involved and

uh of course if anybody out there ever watched this and you do have a significant amount of capital that you want to place into something that's very

very safe and repeatable then uh hit one of us up and we' be happy to chat with you about where we're headed next that's

right we'll try to squeezy you in we got lots of deals but there are people coming to the table with money we like

doing deals with a certain type of folk but uh anyway everybody's welcome y'all

come holler at us rooster Vance here hey if you have any deals you'd like to submit to The Hive mine and our team go

to Hive bc. it's actually The Hive Buyers Club submit your deals and we can hopefully diso your deal for you have a

great day

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Ep 472: Handshake Deals to Ranches: A Deep Dive into Innovative Land Investing Strategies

Anthony Gaona

Rooster Vance