0:01 Hey, welcome to the hive this podcast. I'm your host Daniel Martinez. Today we have a special guest, Chris Duff. Now Chris, I met Chris about a month ago, he came to our event in San Antonio. You're from Austin, I believe, if I remember correctly. 0:17 Yeah, I lived here for the past five years, but originally from north of Chicago, so like a lot of other transplants, you know, escaping the cold down to down to Texas. 0:29 Where are you from, originally from Chicago. 0:32 suburb called Libertyville. It's about 45 minutes north of it. So yeah, I know folks around the area might might be familiar. 0:40 I've never heard of liberty Ville, but I grew up in Hammond, which is right over the border in Indiana. And 0:46 I'm not familiar with that one either, but yet somebody kind of trips usually up to Michigan to to visit family, so I'm sure I pass through it. 0:55 The farthest I went up that direction was I went to Skokie that I remember when I was a teenager. 1:00 Yeah, we're just north of Skokie base. Yeah, 1:04 Skokie is way up there. Yeah, I went up there for a birthday party. And I'm like, this is like, far. And I had a I had a guy in my class. He lived in Skokie, and he would commute all at Indiana every day for school. Oh, 1:17 that's brutal. We're going through the expressway through Chicago. I can be left early. They 1:24 left early. Like 4am 5am Was I get to live all the way through Chicago to go to school in India. 1:31 Yeah, that sounds absolutely terrible. Full time driver. Oh, okay. So yeah. Imagine what that type of those resources Why have to commute so far for school? 1:43 I mean, I don't know. It's one of those things. It's crazy, man. So another Chicago person. I was like talking to Chicago because the only thing I kept from Chicago was my number. So I still I still have my my Indiana slash Chicago number and something I kept. Because I once I left there, I'm like, deuces. 2:03 Exactly. I still got my four seven for my personal number, but your business is all 512 to drive that Texas representation. 2:12 That's funny, man. You grew up in Chicago your whole life? Yeah, 2:16 for almost 30 years. But yeah, but my girlfriend at the time now now wife. And probably six months after we had met I already had some mentors that were doing some work in, in Austin and this was back in 2016. And we know you know Austin's there's it's no secret the the growth that's been going on here. But it was already trending in that direction then and I always kind of knew Yeah, get away from the the cold up north and you know, to a more a state that's more friendly and exciting for business side as well as you know, mixing that outdoor lifestyle. And I wasn't in land back then. But little did I know after getting into this industry that this would really be the most exciting state to be based in. Yeah, 3:17 100% 100% What were you doing back then? What was your job? Position? 3:22 Yeah, I'm actually a physician by training. So I went to medical school. And yet didn't actually practice tried to start a medical device startup coming out of medical school that crashed and burned. Majorly pick picked up a lot of lessons along the way there and then got into internet marketing learn from Ryan with accurate estimate that he was actually my mentor that was you know, based on Georgetown, just north of Boston and that's why I went to a couple events down here fell in love with the city worked for an internet or a marketing agency in San Diego remotely Kickstarter, crowdfunding campaigns and then I also was in the midst of that trying to start my own business to in trying to sell backyard chicken coops if you can believe that so you know that's still to this day with a number of my friends poking some fun Hey, you You left a degree or a career in Madison to go sell sell some chicken coops and needless to say, that was a tougher market to to break into the the margins were not great there. And then got poached away to healthcare venture capital firm based in New York. One of my close friends was working for them. So did that for two and a half years really built up some more investing and underwriting chops as well as marketing. And then one of my other her closest friends was leaving his work in Wall Street and 2019. We're kind of best buddies from high school. And we always intended to work together, always more entrepreneurial. And so we finally have the timing was right and decided, hey, let's figure out what what business to pursue here. And we looked at a bunch of them at a big spreadsheet. I mean, we looked at pet insurance to dog walking to trying to build mattresses for people who want to sleep on the floor. Two, yes, some other internet marketing avenues. And my current business partner and another close friend, my school, they had been doing single family residences for almost a decade at that point had about 4050 House portfolio up in the Midwest. So we were potentially looking at expanding that out, bring me in. But then we heard from some of our colleagues in the multifamily space in Colorado, they had a friend in land, primarily working in Florida, we got connected with him and invested in his business earlier in late 2019, to 2020, right when code was hitting, and, you know, it was amazing, where we were making double profits, right, March and April 2020, which yeah, as you can remember, it was just a crazy time, no one knew where the economy was going. But clearly, there were some some green shoots. And we just expanded from there and haven't looked back since. 6:41 I think, I think COVID COVID was interesting time now looking back at it, during that 2020 to 2022. Period. It was definitely a very curious time to be like, I feel like even then I was very new to what I early COVID, I was I just moved to California. He was it was crazy, man. But looking back at it, I think it was a lot of good things that happened during COVID. And a lot of people were like the world shut down. It's crazy. But on the business side, I've seen so many people make a lot of money during that transition 7:16 period. It was it was a good time to learn good time to get a lot of mistakes out of the way too. I mean, there were some properties we bought back in our early days that we probably would have lost a lot more money buying now as market got a lot more efficient and, and more difficult. But yeah, you almost couldn't lose money for you know, 18 or so months back then. Which 7:39 is insane. Which is insane. Let's say anything about but when things are trending up, it's very every little every little thing a genius. Yep, 7:46 exactly. Yeah, it's easy to get caught in the grid and start relaxing your principles and underwriting and everything. And yeah, we definitely paid paid the price for that as the market started turn. And I think that that's happened to a lot of people. But, you know, sometimes you just got to survive, and you know, more time in the market can sometimes equal success in the market. And that's what we've, we've really found too. 8:10 So right now you are a you're mostly serious, serious land that capital. So I've only been doing that. And is that a fun backing? 8:22 Yes, so we just started this earlier this year. You know, like I alluded to, in my myself and my two partners starting land, you know, like 2019, early 2020. Initially, we ran a smaller fund, because we're more institutional guys, we thought we were going to take this individuals business in Florida, which was about you know, a million dollar business, try to scale it up to 10. But as you well know, in the land business, a lot of cowboys cowboys, cowgirls in here, you know, that don't like really following operational procedures and so forth. And, and this guy just couldn't grasp the context of how to deal with, you know, serious limited partners, and so forth and reporting and all that and so unfortunately, we had to remove him pretty early on and we had to take over the asset management role teach ourselves and everything in the land game, you know, a lot from you know, Ra tips or learning from Seth as I think a lot of folks coming into land flipping do and so again, we developed some success from there, got our investors solid returns. And then my two partners and I, we were just using our own capital to run our flipping business. And yeah, that had gone well for 2020 2021 2022 was just a down year for us in general and I think a lot of people, I'm involved in other investments too. I mean, I drawdown of like 85% of my net worth, other things going on. My personal life, you know, baby on the way trying to move into a new house, you know, as interest rates going up and again, the real estate market was turning, it was just tumultuous period, where we were just trying to figure out how do we continue to make this thing work. And so that started, you know, continued a little bit into earlier 2023. But then, you know, I really sat back and thought about it, you know, I, my two partners, and I were, you know, we've always had a bit more capital, back into work with, we're much better at the underwriting side, compared to direct marketing. You know, we're connected with a lot more capital through our internal networks, we understand and can draft a lot of legal agreements, participate in more complex deals. Like, let's try to reorient our business. And so this is where we look to see, you know, a lot of the coaches in the space in the land flipping space really start to push using OPM other people's money, as well as opening their own funding outfits, in addition to you know, just direct marketing themselves. And so we just made the decision, hey, let's, let's try opening up funding side of our business, market it out, see if there's any type of hits here, now that the industry seems to be transitioning towards Yeah, the coach is really advocating, hey, you know, try to scale up your business faster, even if you're giving up a share of your profits. So we started marketing in May of this year, and almost instantaneously, we started getting some solid leads coming in, we did our first deal in late June, and I think we're closing in on about 20 or so I'd have to check, check on that. But yeah, by the end of this year, year to date, revenue plus anticipated portfolio value, we're going to be closing in on between one and a half 2 million or so and have about another million in expected and sales value in the pipeline here. So the business really took off quickly. And these are only, you know, smaller flips, you know, between 20,200 1000 purchase price on average. And so we're trying to expand much beyond that into you know, mid six figures, high six figures, low seven figures, subdivide entitlement type deals, as well. And that's why Yeah, it was great to connect with you and Anthony and, and some of the other folks pursuing those bigger deals, because we can match our capital backing with with the deal flow that y'all have. And you have just a really exciting opportunity to pursue. 12:48 Yeah, there's, there's a lot of opportunity out one thing I've noticed, I've been the Amenda land space for five years now, or several, six, that's been five, it's been five years, there's a lot of people in that lower space, there's a lot of deal volume, you can definitely get on that low on the low end of $100,000 or less. But when you get to the higher tiered level, there's still a lot of volume up there, but there's less people doing it. So it's just networking in meeting those people that operate at that at that higher threshold, because they're out there few and far between and network around and make some phone calls and make some emails and make it make those connections happening, because I've only met a few people that are operating in this in the higher level space. But man, the low level, there's a lot of people a lot a lot of people, I was having a Twitter banter, and somebody's buying desert squares in California the other day, and I'm like, 13:42 Yeah, let's do it. And those are some of the hardest parcels work. I mean, we've dabbled out there like West Texas stuff before, you know, Brewster County and so forth, just a little east of El Paso. And, you know, again, like most land investors, you know, you don't have on the ground presence a lot of these areas and have to trust realtors and go out there, but they are, they're so hard to review, even from an aerial perspective, and even figuring out access and everything. So, you know, even though it's more of a red ocean to participate in those and think, oh, yeah, I can buy these for cheap and just finance out. But, you know, in our opinion that those have been some of the most difficult properties to underwrite in the first place. I 14:23 agree. I agree. I don't know why a lot of people go over there and like, just stay away from the desert man. That desert attracted to the low price points. Like it's a low price point for a reason. Like 14:34 come on. Yeah, exactly. 14:38 So you've done a little bit of funding and a little bit a lot of transactions here and there. What are some tips you could tell like new land investors stay away? I mentioned the desert because I think it's a simple one, but simple stuff that you've seen that like, Hey, we're not even gonna touch that because I just don't understand it. Or, or you might not under you might not like like it because it's not the ideal. And this is one of the things we're like awesome. Land, we can be super specific because there's a lot of ideal properties. 15:04 Yeah, yeah, exactly. And, I mean, yeah, I'll just plug this now because, you know, do this day in day out, I love to underwrite. But, you know, we were getting so much deal flow that was just overpriced coming in. And you know, we're getting, you know, a range of investors, some folks who've been doing land even for, you know, for six weeks, even some folks who have been in the game for, you know, a few years, and I get it on on the direct marketing side, especially as it's become more costly, it's more difficult to find qualified deals, like you, you really want to make the numbers work and any of the deals that come in, it's easy to get attached to it and just find out yeah, maybe I can work out the numbers this way. But that is just a fool's game, especially as it's turned into more of a buyers market. And we've just seen even more and more churn in the industry where people Yeah, they get caught in a couple of bad deals, and all of a sudden, their properties, you know, all their cash is tied up on things that won't move for months. So, you know, we're just super super focused on, you know, really advocating for people, Hey, you have to be buying at the right price. Yeah, I mean, it's the simplest thing to hear. But I only mentioned this, because, you know, a lot of the deal flow it's coming in to us, is, you know, probably three out of four, almost four out of five deals is overpriced, sometimes, sometimes significantly. So like double what, what you should be paying. And, you know, very easy to get caught into these. And so I took all of this data and just started a Facebook group called land daily diligence, where Monday through Friday for an hour at 2pm Central. Every day barring got reschedule, people can just send me in deals, whether they're for funding or not, I will review them live. And on data tree on Redfin, et cetera, show my exact underwriting process and advocate for, hey, we think this purchase price is appropriate, or, Hey, I'd like to stay away from this deal entirely. And you know, we're national and focus, so we see land from from all over the place, of course, you have to, you know, treat each geography with with the respect that it deserves. So, you know, just to name a few. And, you know, keeping that that pricing side, as front and center here, like I always say, like, pretty much every day is like, don't don't lose money. That is our number one rule here. Just have to make sure you're not getting caught up emotionally in a deal or trying to make make the numbers work. But easy ways to get caught. One, no matter how many times I mentioned it, it seems you know, folks will send us a deal with with some type of wetlands on it. One of the easiest things that we might get these every week, every two weeks, we know how hot Florida is for estate to go after land investing or along the east coast. And almost always, if you get a big parcel in Florida, which is rare, because it's more of an infill type of state. But if you get one of those sent over, and, you know, a seller's looking Oh, yeah, going to be able to be able to sell at half market value. There's a reason they're trying to sell that to you because it almost assuredly has has wetlands on it. And yeah, a lot of people are able to track, okay, flood zone have the layering there. And oftentimes flood zone doesn't really matter in a lot of areas, especially along the east coast. But you always have to be using your wetlands filter, either on land ID, or some of the free governmental ones. Just check in on that. Because yeah, that can basically make that property completely worthless. Or you can get stuck holding it for a long time maybe have to do 10s of 1000s of dollars of dirt work to even make it viable. And I speak from experience, too. We got caught with a couple of those properties early on in our business. And yeah, it's easy to get turned around there. But it's, you know, super quick two minute check. Just make sure you're not buying with with wetlands there. So that's definitely a key one. To always keep in mind. Another one. Yeah, there's a million I can go down but just to mention a couple that are more common. Another is in the infield space is really, really double checking your utilities. Those are again, everything on paper on an aerial can look like a bit this is just a home run property. I've got it but if you don't really pound the pavement, call the city, email them keep finding somebody who has an answer for it. Does this sewer line like actually extend in front of the property? And if not, you know, what's, what's the cost of this going to be? I mean, we were looking at one in Oregon, earlier this year, that seemed like a $20,000 buy and sell for at just like perfect infill lot. But the reason we could get it so low is yeah, the sewer didn't extend out to the front of the property, it needed like an extra 6070 feet, that was going to be, you know, upwards of 20 $25,000 job just to add that on. So yeah, it really started cutting into margin. Plus, that 80,000 price wasn't as accurate when when we dove in for some of the underwriting, underwriting, but that took a long time to figure out you need to like actually pull up the maps and understand what you're looking at. Sometimes there can be water lines that shut off, you know, near the property that are, you know, city water, and then county water starts a little bit further off. We've seen that so, you know, again, I have kind of a million examples about infill lot specifically, but you really, really need to pay attention to, to utilities, and make sure you're not getting screwed over in a deal. 21:15 Yeah, we don't really do any invalids ourselves. So it's one of those things where like, I know, I know the nuances, but like, even then like stuff to like, double check everything because like, utilities is such a big one too. Because if it's already cut up, and it doesn't have it, it's gonna take a lot to get there. And then you got to understand the septic laws too. Which is why like, that's right. Like, if you understand if you understand Texas law, you just look for stuff that's are higher and invalid and you're you kind of straight cuz you can put it you can go septic out there. So I didn't know you're doing nationwide nationwide kind of throws a wrench in a lot of things. And you have to understand a lot more detail. Because I think Florida is a great place to flip land. And I know a lot of people doing a lot of land in Florida is a great place. But man, there's a lot of land and there's a lot of flood zone. 22:05 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I mean, we mainly did Florida for the first couple years, our business, I mean, it's great, obviously, it's super competitive, and only been growing more so. But yeah, I mean, national and focus, it's, I mean, what wouldn't recommend that if you're first getting into the land business, but you know, at this point, you know, as partners that we've looked at hundreds, if not 1000s of deals and, you know, if if you're careful and how the set process, and we do, you know, we have to, you know, multiple people sign off on certain parts of our underwriting before we ever wire money out. And, you know, ultimately, it doesn't matter what land you're looking at, as long as you can, you know, go through your, you know, based process. And then also, you know, we always look to work with local realtors for our dispo process. Unless an originator is local, the area that that's definitely a more rare circumstance. But, you know, we're super picky about realtors that we work with. And we don't necessarily, you know, try to find one that might work in, you know, a multi, you know, four or five county region, I'm always prefer finding somebody who's even sold a lot, you know, just to street or to down within the past few months, that's always the best and I'm fine, you know, starting a new relationship there. And then just gauging you know, less on the getting CMAs and the email PIP like I know, some funders and so forth will ask for that. But honestly, I think CMAs especially for rural lots are not that helpful. Anyway, I'd rather get a realtor on the phone, ask some very specific questions about the area and then you know, try to get them out to the property that we're looking at as well. Of course, we try not to burn relationships, so I'm not you know, spraying and praying to realtors in the area. I tried to pick you know, one at a time. And you know, basically promised them Hey, well we'll give you this listing if you know we're able to close on the deal assuming that the numbers work out here. But that that's the way that we overcome some of those issues of yeah not having an on the ground presence and that you know, I can now look at you know, effectively every state in the country and you know have my general principles and then also know what what to ask for specifically based on people local to the region. 24:31 Yeah. I haven't I haven't opened up nationwide because it's just it's I'm not ready yet man it's a lot it's a lot when you get into nationwide stuff a lot so what 24:42 you need to leave Texas though I mean, that's what I've been finding there's infinite opportunity here. Know Texas 24:49 is amazing, man. But I mean, I think we open up to other states eventually, but we're not there yet. Man. There's so much stuff happening here that my room lumbus I invest in land where people want to be. 25:04 Precisely and I mean, just just to piggyback off, I mean, I was trying to even find some data on like, you know, total cash value, or just the asset value of land in the US, and there's not great statistics there. But, you know, even just trying to throw some estimates out, like, I wouldn't be surprised if you know, Texas writ large, like, you know, $500 billion asset class, like, that doesn't seem unreasonable and like a multi trillion for the entire country. Again, just kind of spitballing even looking decades out there. But something interesting about Texas, and I just saw this research report a couple of weeks ago, but this group was trying to estimate in the year 2100, what what are going to be like the Top 10 Top 20 largest metro areas in, in the US and you know, it's hard to predict anything 75 years out, but they did have, you know, decades worth, you know, 5060 years of census data migration data, where people moving and yeah, that's about as well research you can do and what the the top three cities in the year 2100, according to this trend, number one would be Dallas Fort Worth with like 33 34 million people number two Houston with just north of 30 million people. And then Austin, number three was like north of 20 million, which would be crazy growth, considering we're probably just south of like 2 million metro area at the moment, but it, you know, it really just puts into perspective, you know, where the migration trends have been? And if that continues to, to come down here, like, yeah, we just have really infinite opportunity, you know, all kinds of Texas triangle cities, you know, besides Houston, on the east side, have room to grow in all four directions. And you can just scan on the aerial maps, how many subdivide potential properties are out there, it's just crazy to consider. 27:05 No, and let's the 100%. Back to because like even then, like some of our properties that we subdivided developers have bought those and made their own little mini subdivision out of those. So the little nesting egg principle, like you get the big ol egg and you cut it up and brush a little eggs. And then, like, briefly, we sold to a bunch of guys that they're they're kind of we've there's so much 20 acres, and they're kind of 20 acres into like 30 Lots, 27:30 like, right, yeah, no, it's not always find somebody to add even more value to. 27:37 That's what I love about land. It's I always talked about this is land land is buying at the bottom of the market. Every time you get a good price, that's even better, because you're buying below market at the bottom of the market. 27:50 Yeah, yeah. Now it's recession proof as well, too. And when you're buying properly and not, you know, trying to spec invest years in advance and just ready to move as the market adjusts in real time. It's, yeah, it's hard to be. Are 28:07 you guys jumping into notes at all? Or are you just strictly doing bicep cash? 28:12 So we've done a few notes just in our ra flipping business in the past, and we self managed those notes to net now I would just use, you know, company and loan servicing, like 20 different. Yeah, exactly. We didn't know that at the time. And like, yeah, we can just pass those payments along to who we're selling to you anyway. And, yeah, I mean, us as well, as a lot of funders, it is more of a cash turnover business. I mean, because we're always looking for more deals. And yeah, if we get stuck in a bunch of notes, you know, even when we don't have an infinite capital, and so that that can really, you know, put the brakes on on our business. But given that, you know, that there are, you know, kind of growing a group of note Note buyers who can, you know, buy between 7090 cents on the dollar for notes, you know, sometimes, you know, instantly sometimes, you know, three, six months out, as we've learned, and we've learned that from you, and Anthony as well. You know, from the marketing side, we are super aggressive with with dispo. And again, that this was lessons learned, especially coming into late 2021 2022, where we were starting to push you know, 200 day on market and so forth. And we got greedy thinking, you know, like, we're not going to accept this lowball offer in our opinion at the time, and then we still have to sell even lower because yeah, the longer you let property sit on market, the more market risk you're taking anyway, things can change on you. Or, you know, the market can just kick you in the teeth right from the start. Even if you have the best comps in the world that that's just you know, part of what you have to live with in this industry. No matter how good your underwriting is, so we've really, you know, learned from the algorithms of the, you know, filos, and red fins, and so forth the MLS that, you know, two weeks on even, you know, you'll notice your saves and views start to tank for almost every property. And so, you know, if we're not getting the response that we'd like, even within two weeks, we're ready to knock down that price and try to, you know, bump ourselves back in the algorithms again, and, you know, a lot of times those views and saves can be misleading and red herrings as well, like, you don't necessarily get serious buyers, where they say, Oh, this is kind of like nice photos, and it looks like a nice property, but they're not actually people who are going to want to go under contract. So we've learned that as well not to get too distracted with what what those few numbers are. And then yeah, after that price cut, if if we might even go you know, one two weeks after that, depending on the you know, absolute dollar value of the property, just keep cutting until we find that number. And again, this is assuming we're marketing properly, have good drone photos, and you know, that there's nothing needing to be done, you know, soil tests survey as needed friend, buyer, all of that squared away, then largely, it's going to be a pricing issue. So we were using this strategy earlier on just cut, cut, cut, if needed, and we probably have to do that on, you know, 40 50% of our properties, some, you know, sell right away, but we're still averaging below four month hold times, which we think is pretty good. In this market. We know even some other more sophisticated sophisticated land investors, like the other days on market have been trending upward, you know, even to the four to four to six month mark, that aren't as aggressive on the cut side. But we, you know, learn, hey, if we had been offering owner finance from the start, which is what we do now, then, you know, if we could have found a buyer earlier on, then even if we're taking you know, 70 to 80 cents on the dollar, for you know, the time the note buyer would be picking up the note that might still be higher from a cash game perspective to us, than if we have to just keep cutting down the cash price looking for that cash buyer so that that's something we picked up at, you know, after three or four months in the business. And so, yeah, now we really advocate especially in rural areas, offer owner finance right away, just make sure that we're undercutting the market right from the start, and that our property has more attractive features or maybe a couple of unique features compared to what else is on the market here because again, as I stressed before, it's more of a buyers market at the moment here and it's really easy to get caught having a properties that sit on the market for months so you have to just have to be careful. One thing I'm 33:03 really going to hit on I'm really glad you said this too, but that first like four months of your listing is the sweet spot like you got to be actively marketing that thing because after the longer it sits it just gets harder to move and nobody wants to buy it because nobody else wanted to buy it. 33:19 Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that's something we found too is that usually your first leads that come in even if it's like within the first one or two days your property like ah you know I just listed it maybe I can get a better offer probably eight times out of 10 the first leads that are coming in are going to be the best ones for your property anyway very rarely we've seen somebody come in with a better offer weeks down the line. Yep. 33:44 So man I'm really really glad you said that because facts right there facts right there. Chris knows Chris knows the power but you got you got to take those early offers seriously because they're serious offers in most cases. 34:01 Yep, yeah, exactly. And yeah, we're again speaking from experience we've we've left money on the table from from getting greedy and and you know not not realizing that the market was going to dry up even a couple of weeks later after turning stuff down. So yeah, can can definitely take it from from our loss. 34:22 What is a quote that is yours or somebody else's that you resonate with? 34:30 Yeah, so I actually have a quote wall right behind my computer here so I can always pull something and get reference to to that but one of my favorite ones is action expresses priorities. And so this is a daily reminder, you know, for myself and I think a lot of people is you know, hey, we might get inspired about what other people are, are doing or you know, we may even plan yet over the weekend, hey, here's how you want to hit the ground running this week and so forth. But, you know, ultimately, if you're not doing any of those things that you're even thinking about, or saying to other people that you're going to do like that, that's not actually a priority for you. Yeah. Is it eating? Right? Are you exercising and personal side? Or? Yeah, are you taking my business to, you know, the $500,000 mark to the million dollar mark. If that's like not actually coming to fruition, then yeah, it's not truly a priority for you, and I'm, you know, thinking about things that that we actually have a real hand in and control and, you know, always there's going to be some amount of luck in involved with with everything, but you can't fully put that in as the, you know, the primary driving factor for for your life here. So, you know, and I've definitely been some of the guy with with, you know, talking bigger and, and so forth in the past, especially, you know, late teens, their 20s, and so forth, and just wasn't getting the results that some of my peers were getting and yeah, I really had to sit in and be honest with myself of Yeah, no, you're not actually you know, taking action on on these things that that you say are important to you. And so that that's always one of my favorite things that I keep in the back of my mind, even today. Just just to make sure that you were I'm aligned with with how I'm acting and you know, paying attention to who who around me is also on a similar track. 36:49 Awesome, awesome. Love it man. Where can people find you online and please go check out his Facebook group. I want to plug all that stuff again. Go ahead. We will find online and production Yeah, 36:59 I mean, you can see if you're watching on video and yes, serious land dot capital is our site. And do you have my contact info on that? Chris at Sirius land dot capital or my direct phone number 5128070 800. Feel free to text call. At any time if you have a deal for funding, you can find all our criteria on the site. You know, base case again, I sent mentioned nationwide infill rural doesn't matter. $20,000 minimum purchase price is generally what we're going to take a look at. So feel free to send anything our way. Otherwise, again, that Facebook group land daily diligence Monday through Friday 2pm Central feel free to send in deals for me to review do at zero cost live you know whether it's for funding or not. So definitely check. Check us out there. You know, some other social links that as we get more active on having my VA start to set it up on Instagram, Tik Tok, and an X serious land capital some variation you can find it if, or it's on our website, so you can find us more there. But definitely the Facebook group and our website is the main way to get in contact right now. 38:16 All right, all right. Thanks for coming on. Chris. I hope you all learned something sell your sell your properties faster than you think. I'm gonna 38:24 let him go. That's the thing. Yep. Stay in the industry. Don't get caught in bad deals. And you'll be in here with me and, and Daniel and so forth. You know, having freedom of lifestyle and freedom of time and money that that's we're all in this business for. But you just gotta you gotta be patient and consistent with your skill application and in real estate without it out. You know? 38:53 We'll see you next time. Stay tuned. Go like, share, subscribe, you know to do we'll see on this episode. Thanks, Chris. Bye. Thanks, 39:00 Danielle.