0:00 Hey, welcome to today's episode of The have those podcast. I'm your host Dave Martinez. Today we have special guest, Mr. Brandon Barnum. Brandon, how you doing today? 0:09 I'm blessed me unbeli. Brother, how you doing? 0:12 Awesome. Awesome. I'm doing amazing, great day a great day to be alive. Sad day, September 11. But I think it's still a great day. This episode not released today, but we're recording this on September 11. So remember all those. Take a little dark turn a little there. Brendan, we're part of the country you from, 0:32 originally from Portland, Oregon. But I live down in Phoenix, Arizona now. 0:36 Phoenix, Arizona. Phoenix is one of my favorite cities. I've been there a few times. And it's my favorite city. I've never been in the heat of summer. So I can't say that it's my favorite place to live. 0:47 Yeah, you know, 100 degrees. 100 days of 100 degrees is a bit much but my wife and I both work inside and from home. So it's AC all day. 0:57 Wow. That's the hack. That's the hack. That's amazing. So referrals, referrals, referrals. Let's talk about real estate though. Yeah, man, how long you've been in real estate? Because I think you're the 1520 years. 1:09 Yeah, you know, I got into the mortgage business in 1997. And I was in for 12 years full time. And then ever since then, from 2009, I got out. But I've been building technology platforms that are real estate centric. 1:23 Real Estate technology. There's a lot of there's a lot of opportunity in the technology space. And if you pick a niche, and especially if you have experienced in it, you can make money doing them because I run a technology business in real estate to 1:37 huge I mean, I got started, I was a mortgage guy, right. But I just come out of school, college with a marketing degree and my teacher taught me to use my new eyes and see what needed to happen and go create it. And so I built kind of an early version of Zillow, Portland, Oregon, I started featuring online listings, and I went to realtors, and I said, Hey, I'd like to feature your property at pdx home.com. And that was how I added value. And then we started doing conferences and seminars for real estate investors or first time homebuyers. But that technology platform was the core of my business. 2:14 Wow, wow. So fitting I mean, you say Are you do you still practice real estate are you kind of out of the business now, 2:22 we own a real estate brokerage. It's really a subsidiary of hoa.com, which I'm sure we'll get into. But we do have a real estate brokerage called Zoom agents, we don't hire any agents, we just refer it out and earn profit on the you know, portion of the real estate commission. 2:38 So you really dig into that referral business in every way, shape, or 2:42 form. And that's what I love about the real estate world is you can actually get paid on referring transactions to other realtors and you know, most other businesses, you can't really do that or you've got to have a license. In our case, we have a designated broker, that's one of our owners. And that's how we're able to do that legally. But I love that about the real estate world. 3:03 There's a lot of agents that struggle with lead flow. I think it's a struggle in the real estate industry as a whole. But I think agents they get picked on the most 3:13 through for most industries, honestly, that's, you know, I've over the years served a lot of business owners and professionals my last platform, we had over 5 million people that were on our platform to do business by referral. And as we've done surveys, 90% of people say that attracting new clients new leads new business is their number one concern, so it's huge. 3:36 Now, did you build that business off the off referrals to? 3:40 Yeah, it was called refer.com. So yeah, we did 3:46 refer to Okay, everything's referrals. Everything's referrals. Okay, so 3:48 we started it. So actually, quick story, I started trusted team.com, I ended up partnering with another guy who had built a software platform called 22. Touch, not com the concept of touching each of your prospects, 22 times a year, we did a merger combined our two tech platforms and created referrer.com, which we then grew to 5 million members. 4:11 And how long that is amazing. 4:14 Five, six years, but honestly, part of our growth strategy was acquisition. So we bought a couple a couple of companies that already had an online user base, and that's how we were able to accelerate the growth. 4:25 That's even better. I mean, you're doing roll ups, you're doing roll ups. 4:30 Oh, oh, do just wait with hoa.com Ridiculous roll up opportunities, but that's for a future episode. 4:36 Okay. This is okay. Everyone doesn't want to roll up as Roll Up is where you consolidate other businesses into one essentially, big bigger business. Did you end up selling that? 4:48 Yeah. In 2019. 4:50 Amazing. Where did you raise funds to acquire other other businesses or what was that strategy? 4:57 Yeah, we did. We did. We had Uh, in fact, quite frankly, was a private equity fund that had financed the purchase of the roll up that ended up buying us out of the business. And so, yeah, we had private equity firm out of Philly, that was financing the roll ups and then ultimately, was the exit. 5:20 That is amazing. Think of the exit in mind. I, one of the things I like about I love that you're in the technology space, I love that you're the business acquisitions, because like, that's one of the things like, I think it's a, it's a very untapped market. But making the connections and the ability to finding the capital, raising the capital to buy and acquire those businesses to make make money. And a lot of people won't even see that as a business. Like, I'm gonna build this business from scratch, like, No, you can just be got a business, you can acquire businesses and roll it all up and sell it somebody else. And there's the exit strategy. 5:52 smart strategy. 5:53 I think a lot of people, they they don't think of the end in mind so that they don't even think that far ahead, like, hey, I can actually sell this business and be out of it. And not ever don't know 6:03 what they don't know. And so until they go through that process, and then they sell and then they can see it right, then they've got the perspective where they're like, Oh, I understand how the whole game is played. But up until that point, it's like you got blinders on. You only know what you know, 6:19 that is amazing. Was that your exit strategy coming into it? Or did you kind of like fall into the role of thing? And it was kind of kind of built along the way? No, it wasn't 6:29 the exit strategy. There were just a couple of strategic acquisitions that we did. We bought one online, it was really a mobile application to do videos, kind of an early version of Tic Toc, quite frankly. But we bought that as a means of integrating that video chat into our platform. And then we ultimately purchased a different referral platform online, and then together, merged all that to build over 5 million members. 7:00 That is, so that's amazing. That's amazing. It's really, really cool. So you're this by acquisitions? How do you did you raise your prices, all that stuff when you when you acquired. So that's like one of the biggest levers you can pull whenever you acquire businesses raise the prices, you go through that process when you're buying as well? Well, the 7:19 acquisition of the other referral network, it was a freemium model. So they really weren't charging anybody anything. I shouldn't even say a freemium model, it was a free model, right. Their whole idea was to monetize on the back end through advertising, but they weren't offering anything to the business professionals that were on their platform. So when we acquired it, we then offered a SAS, membership platform and option to those folks. 7:46 Amazing. This is really I did not expect this to go this way. This isn't really 7:52 you ask the right questions. I tell this story very often because people don't know and they don't ask. 7:58 No, it's really cool. Really, really cool. I appreciate you sharing with us as parent with our audience, because this is i We're in the midst of starting a fund. So I'm learning about roll ups and all this stuff. So it's now that you've done it, it's pretty cool. So SAS technology. What is this all evolved and day traders? Let's have hp.com. What is each away.com? And what is its main purpose and like user user user case to the end? 8:27 Yeah, great question. So when we started the company after exited refer.com, I was sitting on the sidelines, I started coaching somebody that owned a local networking organization here in Phoenix. And as I started coaching him, he said, Okay, what if we could create a referral network of professionals that serve homeowners basically BNI Power team for real estate. And so we started working on it, we I was the chairman, we hired a CEO, he was the president. And we started building it. And it was started as the home owner alliance.com with the goal of connecting homeowners to professionals they can trust. But once we acquired the hoa.com domain, I was sitting with him one day and I'm like this domain, the home owner alliance.com is too big to fit on the side of a bus. So I thought, okay, we can wave our magic wand and have any domain on the planet. What would it be home owner Alliance HOA. So I looked up hoa.com. I went and reached out to the owner and made him an offer refused. And it was something that I learned from my ceo@refer.com. I was the president there. He was the CEO. And he was the one that went and acquired referrer.com as a domain. And I'm like, okay, so you can really have any domain you want. You just got to ask him set the right term. So that's how we started. Now, since we've acquired the domain hoa.com. It's shifted our strategic plan. Now, we're on a mission to revolutionize homeowners associations because there's 370 1000 HOAs in the US, and 53% of all homeowners live in an HOA, but most don't love their HOA. So we believe there's a better way to Hoa. We want to transform the way that the property management companies manage the communities themselves. So they're not the community cops. They're the community connectors and really servants of those neighborhoods. And then from there, what we're building is like next door meets Angie's List meets Zillow. So next door and that every community will have its own online digital real estate, if you will. They're a digital connecting point. And angie's list because we vet verify and then recommend five star rated pros. And then we have a home valuation engine built into our platform as well, which is kind of the Zillow component 10:51 does estimate you know, making offers on that 10:55 outcome moped but just you wait, brother, that's where we have the real estate company, we're just starting a property management subsidiary as well. Because ultimately, we want to manage those properties, those communities, because once we do, we can really improve the way that that community connects and celebrates and operates. 11:16 One thing I really want to commend you on is taking on the HOA is I mean, everybody hates hates. Oh, man, I thought I'll give you a give you some points for that one. Because that one's that one's that one's a whole undertaking. 11:32 Yeah, and it may be a battle. Honestly, when I tell people that I run H away.com. They're like, Oh my gosh, I hate my HOA. And I'm like, I know, right? That's why we're here because somebody has to transform this industry. And if not us who? And if not, when? Not? Not now when? Right? Somebody's gonna do it. So we're taking the shot? 11:53 Are you taking on other versions of HOAs? Like mud districts or like, if you go to like apartment buildings or even like high rise buildings, they have their own like H internal each way I forgot they're called, but they have like their own version of HOA inside the building, 12:05 condo association. We're not at this point that will be future state. We'll get there in 2024. But right now, that's that's part of our roadmap, but it's not the current strategic plan. 12:18 Understand, understand. How are you 12:21 so they build dude, I mean, when you think about everything that we're taking on, we're talking about blockchain voting, we're talking about every HOA board meeting being on Zoom, recorded, transcribed available for everybody to see, we're talking about blockchain spending. So you as a homeowner know exactly where every dollar goes, that you're paying out into this community and how it's being spent, making sure that the bidding process for the jobs are transparent, available for everyone, and that we make sure there's no nepotism because right now a lot of jobs are being given to somebody's brother, uncle cousin, who knows 13:00 100% Are you trying to go through the legal route as far as when they're when they're created to be instituted at that point, because after the fact after the facts a lot harder, because it's, you have to like, almost like that. You have to embed yourself into that into that community to kind of build it up from scratch. But if you come into creation, watching, we're working with developers and builders, when they actually create the HOA, you can actually Institute yourself and create those new, I'm on the right freight path. 100%. 13:35 Man, you got it. So it's an and it's both, quite frankly, ultimately, you're absolutely right. We work with the developer than we can create the bylaws and the CC and ours for each community with our best in class, you know, standardized documents. But then ultimately, the reality is 53% of Americans already live in an HOA. So we've got to start where people already live and amend those documents to uplevel the service that they provide to the homeowners they serve. 14:07 How, how are you pitching that? Because I like I like the transparency side of it because the HOA I mean, their misuse of funds is unheard of, you can probably Google that and find 100 articles from 100 Different HOAs it's its own it's a systematic problem that's facing that sector 100%. So like, how, how are you like, like embedding yourself to correct the issue on the front end? 14:36 Yeah, so just so you know, it's full transparency. We're not in that market yet. We're building that right now for a January 2024 launch, but so I'm talking to the CEO of the largest property management franchise in the US and we're working on a partnership to do this together partnering with people that have already perfected the process and ensuring that their fall Following our best in class best practices, but ultimately, it's really about serving the community. That's what matters most is doing what's best for homeowners, always, as long as the community is doing that. We don't necessarily want to replace their HOA if they're doing things the right way. But they're not, then they gotta go. So ultimately, we want to partner with great HOAs. And if there's a property management company that their homeowners don't love them, then we're going to offer a better way. So what we're talking about right now is not our current strategic focus, or what we deliver at the moment that, again, is future state, what's coming in about 120 days. What we do right now is we connect homeowners to professionals they can trust. And so again, that's that Angie's List Component, if you will, the way that we work our business is that we have people that apply to be the top trusted realtor, mortgage lender, insurance agent, financial advisor, painter, plumber, HVAC company, we do background checks on those people. And then they license those individual communities that they want to be the top trusted realtor, for example, in that neighborhood, we create a trusted team of professionals in what we call hyper local social farming, right? realtors have been farming for decades, we're helping everybody come together and work as a team. And then we bring community impact events to that community. So when a realtor for example, licenses a neighborhood, we already know who the HOA board is, we get them connected. And then what we do is we build the team of professionals that serve that neighborhood. And then they come in and we throw community barbecues and ice cream socials and all kinds of fun stuff to bring the neighborhood together so that neighbors get to know their neighbors. 17:02 Okay, so are you doing this on like a granular like statewide or county wide because I mean, there might be 100 HOAs in any given county. So I'm guessing you're doing this big. So how, that's it's quite an undertaking. It's, 17:22 ya know, it's massive. We focus on really the platform and the program holistically. We've done a partnership with thumbtack, for example. So we have over 250,000 Home Service Pros. That way, if somebody's looking for a painter or a plumber, whether it's in Portland, Petaluma or Pittsburgh, they're going to find somebody that's a four and five star rated Pro. Even if we don't have one of our members in there, we make sure that the homeowner is always supportive. So that's one of the partnerships, we just did a partnership with care.com They've got over 4 million members and nearly a million caregivers providing daycare, pet sitting elder care, and then also house cleaning. So, you know, we're doing these national partnerships to support homeowners nationwide. 18:12 Wow. Sounds like how big is your operation? 18:16 This? Right now we have about 25 people on the team. Okay, 25. Okay, but a scalable, right, we were building this as a SaaS platform, building the technology to be able to scale. So anyone anywhere can use the platform. I mean, at the at the core, we're a technology company. But we're really a service based company, one of the things I'm most proud of is we just rolled out a concierge program. And the way that works, if somebody is moving into a new neighborhood, you know, typically, you got to change everything. And when we moved from Oregon to Phoenix, we didn't know so we didn't know anybody. And now all of a sudden, we need to have all new providers of every service imaginable, right? Well, with our concierge service, what we do is it's totally free for the homeowners and we take care of everything we change their address with the post office will set up their utilities, their power, their water, their internet, get some quotes on Home Security, homeowners insurance, solar, if they want basically everything around that move, they're moving van, shipping, storage, everything that they need so that they can just rest assured that everything's being taken care of for them. And again, totally free for the homeowner and we give it to our pros to give to the homeowners that they serve 19:42 Interesting. Okay, so you're you're a business though. So you d monetize the refer the Pro, they pay you a referral fee. 19:53 They don't pay us up referral fee they pay us a membership fee. So we operate this as a referral net At work, we help the professionals build their trusted team of professionals because quite frankly, they want to get more referrals not only from the homeowners they serve, but also from the other professionals they serve. So what we do is we teach something called our referral partner blueprint. And we focus on all of the different professionals who serve homeowners. So they're all serving the same perfect prospect, which at the center is a homeowner. And what we find is that most people don't really create referral partnerships that are out there, like the lone wolf or the Lone Ranger, building their business all alone, and they don't have as much business as they want. But when they work together, and they co market, they cross promote, they cross refer, and a client for one becomes a client for all then everybody wins more business together. 20:49 No, I think one thing that real estate people do very well, not everybody, but a lot of them do is you go to that preferred agent, they have a preferred title company preferred lender, they have a preferred inspector, they have a preferred contractor that might do minimal repairs, right? Referred lawn lawn care person that can make their house or preferred photographer that's going to do photography showing. So I think that's that's definitely and that everybody does. 100% or they know how to monetize, it's I think just educating the referrer on the opportunity to build and create their own network and monetize that that's priceless to them. If they haven't done a 21:27 huge, everyone should do it. Everyone doesn't do it, because they're not all systematize. Right. And so what we find is most people haven't formalized their partnerships, you go to most realtors and you ask them, Hey, who do you recommend, and they'll have somebody, but they haven't in a contact on their phone, right? They don't have it on their website, they don't have a directory that they hand out to people. So it's it's pretty loose for most people. And we're helping formalize that process. We also have what we call a home safe report. This is kind of like the Z estimate you were talking about before, we use it as a touch point. And so as a pro, when you become a member on our platform, you can send out that HomeSafe report, you just upload your client list. And every month it sends out the updated valuation of each property for each of the homeowners in your database. But the beautiful thing is, not only does it promote you, it also promotes your trusted team. So just like you were saying, if you've got a preferred lender, insurance agent, home inspector home decor, whatever it is, you're not only promoting yourself, you're promoting your trusted team at the same time. And the beauty of that is they're promoting you to the homeowners that they serve the homeowners in their database. So we teach one plus one equals 11. 22:48 You're with that business model, your listing got to be crazy. 22:53 It's pretty nice and growing daily, we love it. The best part of our business model is when a professional joins our platform, the first thing they do is invite their trusted team of professionals. The second thing that they do is they upload their homeowner database. Both of those are good for them. And they're great for us at the same time. 23:19 I respect it because the everybody that operates a business, it's all about your list and list building and your client database. So you alone by collecting database can have a huge valuation just because you have a big client slash referral list of different lists that come with it, which is its own thing. So I got you I got you know, it's amazing. I think that it's being creative is providing a niche value to the marketplace. What is the membership costs for professional and for instance, I have notary client, yeah. Notary can get added to that Home Bundle asbestos, I don't but what does it cost for membership to for professional to come in? And do you monetize other refers or referrals get a fee discount for being referred in? Or how does that operate? 24:13 Oh, yeah, great question. So it's really affordable for everyone to join. It starts at $357 for the year, so less than $1 a day for somebody to be a pro. Now that includes one neighborhood, one community that they license as the exclusive in their industry, if they want to upgrade, then we have other packages available at depending on how many communities they want to license. And yes, we offer a what we call referral rewards. So we have a program. I mean, it's something that I teach right and raving referrals. We have a program where when somebody refers somebody else, they earn 20% of that lifetime revenue stream. And they can either use that as a credit to offset their own membership fees. So basically you refer five and it's free. 25:04 Yeah, yeah. 25:07 Some people just promote it as an affiliate, we call them ambassadors. And then they make money, we do actually do a two level plan 20%, first level 10% second level, and that incentivizes those that are influencers or really incentivizes people to go after influencers. Because if you bring an entire company, that company might either earn 20%, or offer a 20% discount, but you as our ambassador, earn 10%, off hundreds or even 1000s, I just had one of our guys set up a meeting today, with the CEO of a major online company, I'm not going to name them, but they have four and a half million members. And each of those members are consumers. They also have a Salesforce of hundreds of 1000s of people so that one person is bringing that relationship in if we consummated partnership with that company. They're looking at a lot of money for one introduction. 26:07 Yeah, yeah. The referral model alone is his own monster once you get it. Once you get it, once you get it dialed in, and it can produce a lot of it can give you accelerated growth and monetize man monetizable to another level 26:24 is huge. And 98% of professionals and businesses work by referral, right and benefit from referral, but only 3% have a system in place. So that's what we teach, you know, my book raving referrals. We've got a new version of this. I was just in Dallas, Texas last Friday teaching for six hours to dentists. So we have a whole program for dentists. And then I've got another book coming out on December 10, which is raising referrals for mortgage bros. So we've got about 20 different titles that will come out over the next two to three years. 26:57 You're working hard? 26:59 Well, the beauty is I wrote the first book. Now each of the subsequent books are being written by the co author, I basically said, Hey, here's my work. Now you take this and customize it for the industry. And my partner on the mortgage book couldn't be any better. His name is Todd book span he's been he's done over a billion dollars in mortgage transactions. And the guy's just awesome. So I'm super excited to be launching that book a month from now. 27:26 That is amazing. That's amazing. Wow, you've Yeah, I wouldn't be I wouldn't be in the real estate business anymore either. 27:37 In the real estate business, I mean, quite frankly, bro, I'm in the real estate business. I just don't show homes. But we earn Commission's on real estate transactions. What we do on our platform is if we have a neighborhood, a community that doesn't have a realtor that has licensed it, then we integrate our own real estate brand. And we've got a partnership with a national real estate firm that's got over 1000 agents around the country. So we just refer that business over, they take care of connecting the client with a great Realtor in their local area. And then you know, we earn 25 to 35% of The Real Estate Commission without ever showing a house. 28:18 No, it's an amazing, it's an amazing model as a whole. And even that part of it that you said, I have a real estate business, but I actually operate the real estate. It's definitely huge opportunity, especially with your referral network. 28:32 And that just gives us more money to invest in marketing so that we build the brand dominate the market. And in five years from now, people are going to love their HOA because of hoa.com. 28:44 I would love to see that. Personally, each Hoa is man. That's man. I think I think one thing that's that's true about this whole conversation is you find a big enough problem and you can create a bigger solution, which will provide big benefits. Everybody involved. 29:03 Everybody benefits. I mean, people don't love the Rachel way and what if you did, what would that look like to live in a connected community where you felt like the people that were managing your community really cared about the people that they're serving, that they're not the community cops, instead that their servant, you know, the servant leaders and really caring about the people that are living right next door to them. My wife serves on the board here for our Hoa, God bless her. And you know, I just hear the stories of what she's going through. And you know, we're out to just change that total environment. And that's the the best thing that we can do for our country and our communities is changed the way that they operate. 29:45 So I haven't got a question. It's kind of circling back a little bit but your mentor taught you. Oops. You said you said your mentor taught you a strategy to buy any domain. What is the strategy that he used to because you got you got the hoa.com. That's a great domain. Yeah, one of the best I've heard. So we'll go into detail what that strategy was. And I'll tell you a high level, 30:09 its its least own, is least own. Think about if you're a real estate investor, right? You might have put properties under contract, right where you lease to own them, you pay a monthly fee, that's reasonable for you, you cover the rent, hopefully, it even cash flows. And then you've got the option to buy it anytime you want. 30:33 Like, I said that it's going to bed. At night, my head, I'm like, if you can do the websites you can do with anything, 30:40 you can do it with anything, we're just applying a concept we used in real estate to domain acquisition, you can do it in anything. 30:48 No, that's good. That's good. What was the final price you purchased that for? Can you read? Can you release that? 30:54 No. Let me just tell you, I'm still paying, and I'll be paying for a long time brother, but it'll be worth every penny for us. And for him, and everybody's happy. 31:02 That's okay. That's that mean, even even that, even that, that you'll be paying on it forever. It is what it is. 31:12 We've negotiate, it's awesome. Man, the way that I structured this deal is a total win win. And essentially, it's got a cost of living adjustment. So as long as inflation doesn't go off the rails, which under this administration, it already has. And it may continue to we'll see with interest rates, I was talking to one of my mortgage clients today. And she said, I just locked in a rate on a client at 8.17. She's like, I cannot believe the state of our economy. And that just blows me away. That's when I started back in the mortgage business in 1997. That's about where rates were crazy. 31:49 Yeah, we're getting a good rate. today. We're locking in, we're looking at a seller finance 32 unit with 5% interest only. 31:57 Oh, there you go. Nicely done. That's the way it can. 32:01 So that's, that's a deal. Or I literally just came in, right? Like that they accepted the offer. So that came in like 30 minutes ago, 32:09 well done. Man celebrate that. 32:13 Now you know, you don't you don't know what to ask for. And that's why I love like creative strategies as a whole. It's really dope that use that for domain acquisition. It's just there's a lot of cool things you can do. I think your real estate education extends into other things. So it really it really can. If you become really good at real estate, it can you can do whatever you want. 32:33 I think I used to I used to train for Robert Allen no money down. I used to train finance for him. I used to train commercial finance for Ron Legrand, the creator of the We Buy ugly houses. And I've learned so much from those two guys. Right, they would have me on their stage teaching finance, which was cool. What I really learned, though, was dealmaking. And each of them was so creative in the way that they handled deals that it blew me away. Now I was there as the mortgage guy, right. I ran a residential and then a commercial mortgage company. And so they would bring me on stage to talk about funding strategies, which was cool. But the real magic wasn't the loans I could get it was the deals that you could make. If you just thought outside of the box. 33:20 It's right. It's right. sided question. What is what is the best thing you learned from Ron Legrand and your other mentor at that time that you can think of right now? Yeah, 33:30 I mean, Ron, the grand was about buying the ugliest house you could in the best neighborhood. I mean, that just was a foreign concept to me, right? The whole we buy ugly houses concept. Why? Like it makes logical sense now. But at the time, I was like, 35 years old, and I'm like, I don't want that ugly house. I want the nice, pretty house. Look at that one, right? You're like, no, no, no, no, no, you buy that when you make it look like that when you make a ton of money in the process. So that was a huge learning lesson for me. 33:57 What is the quote that is yours or somebody else's that you resonate with? 34:01 Ooh, I love the quote by Zig Ziglar. It says you can have anything you want in life. If you have help enough other people get what they want in life. 34:11 That's a good one. I've heard that one a few times. That one's that one's that one's definitely a good one up there. Where can people find you online? And we got referrals like com, plug in your book, how many books you've written and upcoming books again, and where they can find them? More cool, funny online. 34:27 Yeah, you bet. So Brandon barnum.com is probably the easiest place. It's got a bunch of my different links for different things obviously. hoa.com raving referrals.com. At raving referrals. You'll see there's two books right now raving referrals and raving referrals for dentists. The mortgage book comes out next month and again, we've got about 20 titles in the works over the next two years. 34:49 20 titles in the works amazing. 34:52 My one of my mentors is Mark Victor Hansen. He's been my mentor for the last 19 years he wrote Chicken Soup for the Soul that he sold him his partner Jack Canfield have sold over 600 million books now, right. And when I was writing the first book, he said, don't write a book, build a brand. And so that's what we're doing with raping referrals. We're customizing it for each niche. I was just in Dallas last Friday, and I did a six hour training to a group have about 75 dentists. And it's amazing the knowledge that you can impart on somebody and help them accelerate their growth. That's what I love doing. 35:28 No, and this is the amazing thing about like, when you have a brand is that those dentists know everything about teeth in the mouth, and everything about that. But they don't know nothing about marketing. They don't know nothing about strategies, or nothing about all the back end things that can grow their business marketing, branding, books, all that stuff, 35:47 I gotta show you. So here's what I said to him. I said, you know, most of the time, you guys are sitting there, see if I grab it. I say, and you guys are sitting there like this, and you got your dentists hat on, right. And the reality is, you only spend 10% 10% of the responsibilities of managing your dental practice, or providing dental care the rest of the time you need your CEO hat on, right, you need to think like a CEO. And you need to ensure that all of those responsibilities of your practice are being optimized. So it was a lot of fun. We had a good time. And then I also put on the HOA, that calm hat and help them understand how they can be the top trusted dentist in their local market. 36:29 That is amazing. I hope everybody listening I hope you learned about that. It's not about what you do in your niche. It's more of how you run the business and operate the business. So it's about this is where like, this is why like any CEO can operate any business in any niche because it's less about the actual the actual work of doing the business is operating it. That is the key. Well said. Amazing, amazing. Amazing. Thanks for your time, Brandon. For everybody here. Go like share subscribe. I hope you learned a lot because this is this is a this is definitely a read listen to episode for everybody here listening. Thanks for tuning in. Go like share, subscribe. We'll see you on the next episode. Thanks for coming, Brandon. Thanks for your time. 37:10 My pleasure. Take care