0:00 On the business side, what do you think the worst the worst common advice that you hear about land flipping because you know, we're all we're all land flippers now. Hello legends of land hold on your hats as we dive into the world of land with Daniel Esteban Martinez born and bred in Chicago, he's filled with wisdom passed down from his father. He's mastered trucking unlock the secrets of land flipping and navigated the vast sea of data and skip tracing, teaming up with Anthony they kicked off a million dollar land mastermind and scored some huge wins. Ever heard of the hive with us podcast? That's Daniel, and the cutting edge hive mind CRM. That's also Daniel. Outside of the hustle. He's all about family, a great husband and father. So buckle up and learn the tactics and strategies that made Daniel success and land. Daniel, welcome to the show, my friend, how are you today? 0:52 I'm doing well. I'm doing well. I'm excited to be here excited to share some information I hear you have a lot of questions. 0:59 I'm the question man, I'm here. I'm here to learn and try to kind of tease out the tactics of experts like yourself. So yeah, as we get started, just I call this a burger flip summary. But just picture you're at a barbecue, you're talking to someone they've already verified themselves as someone who understands some stuff. And they say, Hey, so what do you do and land? And the time it takes to flip a burger? What is your niche? What are you doing land? 1:25 So I buy large, unobtainable land, that's usually pretty expensive. we subdivide and seller finance it out. It's pretty much in a nutshell, a lot of people can't afford a lot of a big parcel of land. So we go out there and create inventory. 1:40 And did you start with subdividing? Or did you start somewhere else? And we're so what's the what's the starting point for you? 1:49 How far back you want to go? 1:51 Let's do your first deal. 1:54 First deal, I was actually trying to do houses that first and I contracted like two or three houses didn't work out for a couple reasons. So I was living in Atlanta at the time. And I was doing PPC marketing side of website up with Google ads running to it. And Lady in Atlanta hit my marketing, she's like are on the slot in Florida. People keep dumping on my property because it's vacant, and I just don't want to deal with anymore. I'm like, Alright, so I looked it up real quick. It was worth about 2025 grand. So I know with land, especially if you're wholesaling, you need to move at a wholesale price just like with houses. So I'm like, if it's worth 2025, I know I can move it fairly quickly for 12. So I'm like if I need to get for 12. And you get this deal for at least five grand or lessons you will have happens. So PB lead came in. I was emailing here because I was afraid to talk to her at the time because I was afraid to talk to anybody. And I emailed her cross emails and like, Hey, would you take $4,236.33 just made up a number. She's like, can you do five? I was like, Yes, I can do five, and we can check the deal. I never spoke to the seller never spoke to the buyer. I found a buyer marketplace in about two days, and sold it. And that's how I did my first deal. That was a land deal when I'm doing land ever since. 3:14 And from there you were hooked. You just saw the saw the patha 3:18 Yeah, I've been doing 100% land. The only house deal I've ever done was I sub two seller finance my house because I already had already had lived in it, I owned it. And selling at the market rate at that time was was gonna lose money. So I just seller finance to. 3:37 So if you were talking to someone who was just getting into land like myself, what where would you point them? Do you have a favorite book that you recommend or a top influencer outside of yourself where you kind of say, hey, go here and learn about doing your first deals and land? 3:53 Land specific. There's an author named land mogul, John Alexander, he does a lot of education towards land space, he has like five or six books out, he's a good friend of ours. I recommend all this stuff. If you're looking to learn about just land in general, he does a lot of good stuff. 4:10 Nice, thank you. And how about the best tool or software maybe that you've purchased in the last year or so anything new that you're using or that you recommend that everyone should be kind of using in their journey, 4:23 everybody should use a CRM and it's not really a pitch on hive mind, but you should use a CRM in general helps you be more effective and efficient with your job or do duties as a whole. So before I started hivemind I was using Podio and it was a pain in pain and the pain in the butt as a whole. Just I was I mean I'm pretty techie but I'm not that techie and I struggled with Podio but we needed something to organize our leads a little bit more and be more effective and efficient. So ended up having the opportunity to start hive mind and so digging in so I love it. I literally use hive mind, which is our own CRM software, I literally use it like three different businesses, we use it daily, I have a full team full staff, like it's crazy, like I would not be efficient, as effective as I am now without the software. 5:14 Talk about some of the things that hive mind does, it's a little bit specific to land that just your standard CRM might not do. 5:22 So its link tracking. I mean, we use it for our software itself, we generated about like $1.2 million, just stop just using it ourself on the software side. On the real estate side, we use it for generating PVC leads through websites, converting links, link tracking, texting, all that stuff, we use it for lead generation. It does a lot of cool things that texting might be going away. But you have to use websites and lead and pages and PPC tracking PPC in general, I think we're already pivoting to more towards that of inbound leads. And that's what we like we like inbound leads. So it's using coordinating a lot of things that work in the background, we're gonna also set to work at yourself. 6:09 And what do you mean by inbound leads? Like you're doing Google targeted ads, like for people to be, Hey, you want to sell your land type of thing? 6:18 Yep, somebody goes. So it goes to Google, who buys land in blank, Texas, and we come up. Okay, it's a very, it's a very hot lead that comes in. So whenever it comes in, boom, we got John sets on. So 123 Main Street has 50 acres, and they want this amount and their motivation is ABC. 6:37 That's fantastic. And so do you still do outbound mailing calling? Text? Or do you fully transitioned, 6:46 we transitioned man, we offer it we offer as a service for other people if they want to do it, because we're essentially we do land but we're a marketing agency as well. So we do leverage our marketing agency to do land as a whole. And then we do use education. So personally, ourselves, our deal flow comes from our students and MLS. We haven't literally market for a deal for probably eight months now. All our deal flow comes from students, there's MLS that we're doing, that come in from an agent referrals. 7:17 That's interesting. So you've got a few different verticals going kind of all surrounding the land space. That's quite an ecosystem. That's, that's a great play. 7:25 And that's, that's all it is, man, you got to like, we were most businesses, and this is like, all real estate, businesses have to dedicate money to marketing, we were at zero. We're at zero, those our marketing is zero. So even to the point where people pay us to do marketing, so. 7:43 So you're and so yeah, that's, that's fantastic. So someone can come in be a part of your community. And then you kind of have this one stop shop where Hey, you want leads, we've we can hand those to you? And then how are you getting deal flow through your, through your, through your community, it's leads that they deals that they don't want to do themselves, they want JV joint venture on or what's that deal flow look 8:07 like. So it's still it's a little combination of both. So there's, we provide systems and tools to go do their own leads. So like, some people might target houses, and they get landlines that come across as something out of the wheelhouse that they don't actually know how to deal with. So they'll just serve it up on a platter, or other things were like would teach them what to look for and what to ask for. And then they'll serve those on a platter. So a lot of people are, they want to do large deals, just because you can get paid a larger portion of the transit transaction just for finding the lead. So one of our one of our students, they just found a million dollar property, we're gonna give him 50 grand for finding that lead just for finding the lead. Not even negotiating, contracting it and I think already going for the grant. So people like that, like, hey, if I can just find good deals, and I can make profit as much as doing a flip. Let me go do that. 9:00 Okay, so you are you look at kind of all aspects of the deal. Even someone who's like, Hey, I've got this one, I can't quite handle it. What do you want to? You know, you want? Do you want to take it from here? And then that's okay. That's kind of a good resource. I think for someone beginning when they maybe they get in there trying to do something specific, they get a little over their head, and then they can, you know, still have someone find value out of it. 9:23 100% And like a lot, a lot of the like when you get into the big land space, the hardest part is capital. So we've raised a lot of capital for those deals, and we're still raising capital, always raising capital, when he wants to donate money or to talk about money conversation about this. We're always We're always having that conversation. Because one thing we're at right now is like we had to stop contracting deals because we ran out of capital to like, like to lock up so like we're, we're deploying new capital, all the new capital gets pretty much recycled right back into the machine. And it's a it's a heavy beast to carry, because you're always recycling capital. Very heavy very, very quickly. 10:01 What do you think the first bottleneck that people hit? Scaling a land business like you're doing? Is it always capital? Or is there something that comes before that? 10:10 Number one is always leads. One of my sales trainers is to see a train. He's like, the biggest businesses and the biggest people easily all they do a lot of business, a lot of business, the only differences they have is they have more lead flow that might not be that they always talk about, I'm the best negotiator best closer, and it's not really that it doesn't have more leads, you're gonna there's gonna be lay downs that come into the front door, if you're just marketing for leads. So that's the whole thing is, number one that most people trip up on is how to get lead flow. So once you understand that you're gonna actually going to do deals, even if you're terrible at real estate and terrible at negotiation, you're going to do a deal. It's going to happen over time if you just go through enough leads. And then number two is probably follow up. People start with follow up being with it with your contacts. And you're not to make a lot of contacts usually get that deal. So one thing about land is that it it's almost like a it's a there's like a boomerang, a boomerang effect that comes with land. So a deal we did about two years ago, was we had a seller reached out to us through our marketing, and he's like, Hey, I have this $40,000 lot. Can you give me 15 for it? Most wholesalers jump all over that like, Dude, it's already 50% off. 45% off. Like we're gonna jump on this. But my partner's like, dude, do you like going nowhere? So we're like, well off from eight. So he's like, I have to get 15 I can't do it, or whatever. So 90 days past he comes because his back hamburgers and my land. You want to make offers they're gonna be 15 for? He's like, Yeah, we told you eight like so that's what we'll give you. He's like, alright, I'll take the so like land doesn't move. It's very, very liquid. It just doesn't move. So the deal boomeranging back to us after we made the offer and all we tell our students make the offer, they can always come back six months, nine months later, a month later, you never know the situation, there's always there's always opportunity, we're back. So the deal came back and we contracted it for 1000. We sold it on marketplace for $8,000. Down 500 a month for five years. Beautiful. That's that's story. So land is one of those things where like, if you if you don't move the house in 30 days or less, you're you're a jerk. But alien like we contract for 120 days. It's just in the market for years. We don't talk to the MLS properties we target around the MLS six months or more. Like they just sit there like no one knows. 12:38 And how often do you do seller financing. 12:42 We that's our offer we trying to solidify and see every time because if we can get some episode of financing, it's always gonna make the deal work at whatever price point so the price doesn't matter. We're always looking for seller financing and land has the most equity in real estate. Single family gets traded off than a lot and multifamily commercial, there's always debt being exchanged and refinanced out all the time. So land has the most equity and the most property, this largest asset class in real estate, we try and do owner financing as much as possible because it takes the alleviates the cash problem. So everybody in real estate, the one issue they have that that stops them from growing at any point is cash. Like that's the only problem that stops 99% of people is cash, they don't really don't have the problem are people that are well funded, like up to the tee 100 million dollars. But if you're under that, which is 90% Everybody, you run out of cash, that's the one thing you run out of weather using your capital, private capital, hard money lending, like you run out of capital, it's one of those things where like, you're always gonna run out of capital first. There's even to the point where if you're working with a hard money lender, if you exhaust his capital, he's gonna be like, Dude, I need I can only do that this month, because you're essentially all on with so I'm going to diversify with other other investors because I can't do so much with you. So you're gonna exhaust like there's a cap every, at every level. So capital is the one thing that holds everybody back. But one thing that we can get is seller financing, I can do it individually with every seller, every every deal, we contract, I can do it individually. If it's 80% or 10%. I can do that with every seller. I mean, we're not we're trying to do the deal with no money out of pocket. So we'll lock up a deal with $10,000 We'll get a hard money lender to put it up. We need $20,000 to engineers and whatever we heard related to putting it up or private money lender to put it up. We're not trying to put any of our own capital into it. And we'll give away returns because we're there's so much there's so much earning potential in land. So thing too, you can make big big spreads and land. Alex are mostly talks about this is like easiest way to make a million dollars is to mess a million dollar products. So it's easy to create that Read, if you if you have a $10 million product, it's easy to make a million dollars, it's only 10% margin that you're actually creating or adding. Whereas if you have $100,000 asset, you can't squeeze anything out of it, you're gonna get five grand, 10 grand, that's it, which is why like market specific and asset type and asset sizes. Like that's why you're kind of bottlenecked by the size deal you do as a whole, because you can only squeeze so much out of that deal. Even if you got the best negotiator out there, you can only squeeze so much out of it. 15:32 So, kind of expanding on that concept. If you are a newer land flipper, and you want to kind of get into the game, what price range? Would you be looking and you want to go big enough where there's some juice to the squeeze? But yeah, so how would you think about that? 15:51 It's, it's based off of your own experience, capital level of capital, you might have as your advantage like, there's, I interviewed a guest a podcast guest on my podcast, he took five years to create 50,000 a month and cashflow, just doing the deal I talked about with $8,000 500 a month, you do 100 deals like that 50,000 a month, you can do that, that's 100 100% possible, as people that do that little $50,000, lots or less, you get them for 10 $15,000. When you take them down or seller financing or wholesale them, you can do a lot with that. When you start getting to bigger assets, it's more risk to the lender, which is why we asked for seller financing. So if you have a $200,000 property, like that's as much as a house, and that's what lenders looking at, like, Hey, why would I put two in it, like, like land is like it's whole another animal, it's, that's why a lot of people stay small, because it's a whole nother animal to get capital. If there's more investors that are willing to lend on land on houses, because they know, hey, worst case scenario, I can rent it out worst case scenario, I can rehab it and sell it for whatever it's worth I can sell or finance I can do I have a lot of exit strategies. With land, if they're not a land investor themselves, they don't understand the exit strategies, and there's like, I don't understand it, I'm gonna stay out, I'm out, I'm out. So when you get to higher price points, and higher diehard deal size, you get, like your capital resources are really going to be tapped to a point where like, I'm out, I'm not gonna do that. And that's why we asked for seller financing. So if you can get seller financing on a large asset, you can create a lot more wealth because the land seller understands the value because he's owned it or bought it for for so long. He understands the value and he's willing to carry it to get his price. Whereas a regular land lender, or land lender itself doesn't understand it, and they're going to hold it. Like, one thing about being a lender is like, are you okay, holding that asset? And to a regular hard money lender? Like, no, I don't want to why would I want that? That sounds scary. Yeah. So it's one of those things where like, I can convince a seller to be the lender versus a private money lender. 18:02 What's, uh, what's an example of terms that you generally try to get for rate? And, yeah, 18:10 it depends on where they're at. So I'm actually doing a presentation on this. And I'm gonna make like a graphic to put out there to share with other people, but you couldn't do different strategies based off of what the property values worth. So you have overvalued, fair market value and undervalued. So depending on what, where's where that price point is, and this is where you have to understand land as a whole. Depending on where that deal fits in and that value calculator, then you can do certain things. So if it's overvalued, you can only do a certain amount of things. So if it's overvalued, you can only do long term debt, you can do an option you can do interest on you can do a lease, you can do a lot of different things like that. But if it's undervalued, you can do cash, you can do interest, you can offer a short balloon along balloon, you can offer interest on that you can do a lot of cool creative stuff when it's undervalued, but it's kind of based off of what the what you can get for it. So like us, if we're subdividing, we might, we're looking at deal for two and a half that produces one and a half. So it's like 150% of value, maybe up to 200%. And then our expenses will come out of that source doesn't make a good five to 800 grand, maybe a million dollars, who knows. So you have to look at your margin of safety, like if all goes wrong, and I have to liquidate these at a discount price. I'm still gonna make money. And that's the cool thing about lamp like a two three bedroom two bedroom house is 1200 square feet. There's a whole community around it recent comps that it's only worth $250,000 that's it you can't you can paint it you can add a new roof or store 250 You can you can furnish it store 250 Like it is what it is. With land. We can get a property like hey, We can do either 30 grand, or we might make 100. Who knows? We'll find out. And that's where you have like a, you have a good enough margin, where you there's room for error. So we had a deal we're looking to make like 120 on it. By the time clothes came, we only made 15. Or like, oh, no, we only made 50. Like, that's terrible. 20:17 Yeah. Tough times. 20:21 Exactly. Yeah, that's where it comes down to where like, you can get a big enough margin of safety where like, I'm not gonna do anything to this, and I'm still getting clear 30 to 50 grand. 20:31 Yeah, so you're, so you're structuring things with the downside in mind, basically, finding what that cap to downside is, and then building your your offer with all the aspects from there. 20:42 Yeah, we try to, we try not to even negotiate on price. Like, if the seller wants $2 million, we'll give them $2 million. But it has to be at this, this terms. Like, you want $2 million dollars, like, we're I saw this on Twitter. This is like where you're asking me to buy your illiquid land asset? With my cash. What's the 21:06 Yeah, I mean, that's a, that's a great way to look at it. And I think that, that pressure on the seller, they feel that innately, whether they know it or not like this is stuck, or I can have cash in hand. So it gives you that, that great leverage. So what's a What's one of your favorite, favorite failures throughout, you've done all kinds of businesses and things like that a favorite failure that sets you up for success. 21:30 I originally came from trucking. I used to be a truck driver, I used to be a I operate my own trucking company. I learned a lot about business in trucking. And I don't regret it. I learned a lot. I still people tweet about it. People tweet about trucking and stuff like that. And I'm like, get out. It's just one of those things where like, it's very, it's very capital intensive. You learn a lot about business. So like, a lot of the major publicly traded trucking companies, they operate off a margin of 3% or less. Yes, billions of dollars, but they're only making 3% of that they're making three pennies out of every dollar or less. Which is crazy. Like the stock market isn't the real world in my opinion, because like you have Uber that really profit in this this quarter, I think out of 10 years they've been in business so like, like, and that's a billion dollar company that hasn't made profit like this is this is crazy. I think the stock market isn't the real world, and how you evaluate how you value and evaluate that is crazy to me, in my opinion. Because I don't think they're, it's just crazy. 22:36 Yeah, I came from laundromats, my family was owned a little laundromat. And so that was like the family business. And I learned how to build those. And that's machinery intensive, probably a little bit similar to trucking where you have a lot of your livelihood is tied up in just the equipment and this huge expense. And then it's, you know, every decade, you need to reinvest to keep things going. And it's operating on smaller margins. And just that I was in service business, it's got its own set of things. What drew me to land is some of the things you're saying here, if you could put one message out on Twitter that everyone in the land of business would see, what would that message be, 23:19 um, I'm buying something that's scalable and replicatable. Talking about the business section here. From trucking, you're only you're only capped out by based on what you can produce off that almost like your large amount off that location, or what equipment you have. And you still have to find your customers and stuff to produce stuff to deliver to get paid. So I used to make fun of trucking a lot is like the stars have to align pretty good pay, I'm sure it's the same way for laundromat business. But when I got into software, it's replicatable. It's scalable. It's instant deliverability. And I think land and real estate's kind of works in the same space. There's a little bit more of longer timelines, but it's one of the things we've replicated repeatable, that if you can find the deal, you can find the deal and you can sell the deal. You can do as many deals as you can. 24:04 How do you think about the difference between a b2c business to consumer business to business? Because you're doing a little bit of both with the model you have set up? And do you like one or the other better? 24:17 Um, I think business to business has its ups and downs, because I think I think a lot of people don't realize the struggle of business like I've had to, I've had to have conversations with businesses that the cart declined. Like, you got to have that conversation. And it's not always a good conversation. But it's kind of fishing out where a business consumer, they have something like with the real estate side, they already have something that is a value, so she's trying to negotiate the terms. So I think there's a lot of exchange there. It's hard like I said, I don't know I do a lot of I do a lot of both. I don't know which one I like more honestly, I I like the real estate side I like honestly, I like the real estate and software side, man, I like everything I do even podcasting. I wouldn't change what the path I got to get here. And everything I did to get here, it's been really enjoyable, I've learned a lot, I have a plethora of information that I've acquired through multiple, multiple sources as a whole. So it's kind of like a lot of people, they, you get paid, you get paid by the Sleuth by the problems you solve. And I think if you come, if you come across a lot of problem solvers, adds more tools to your toolbox and become more proficient at solving problems. And promises get bigger as you become a bigger organization. So there's like, there's like, floors and ceilings to everything. So once you break through a new, a new ceiling, there's a new floor like, Okay, now there's some difficult up ahead, that can ruin you, you know, there's always something in front of, you. 25:55 Know, yeah, it's just the nature of business, and you're someone who wears a lot of hats, kind of like a bit of a renaissance man. So it's, it's like, it's just a, this big tool belt of whatever problem comes up, we're gonna be able to hit it from some sort of interesting angle and kind of get it done here. So 26:13 it's happened to team to man, I mean, between the real estate side of the software side of the hill, you got about 20 employees. So like, You got to have a lot of resources at your fingertips to make stuff happen. So like, a lot of what you see online isn't all me, it's all my effort. And there's like all the deals we do, I wouldn't be able to do without my team. So there's a lot, there's a lot that goes into that and has been working with the right people and finding the right people to work with. 26:38 Yeah, absolutely. How do you structure all your systems and keep track and organize what type of software you use for kind of your comfort, company structure communications and things like that. 26:48 And everything everything is ran through, all the marketing is ran through hive mind and like lead management is ran through hive mind. As far as coordination on the sales side, it's, it's through texts and emails and all the above. And we're just every is working to the same mission. We all know what the goals are, and we know what the next product and I try and keep everybody on the team updated on where things are transitioning to where we're transitioning to. And you can always keep a good team on if they know where you're going. Like people don't want to work for a business that isn't going anywhere. Like they're sacrificing their their biggest asset was just time. 27:28 You wear a lot of hats and interesting dude, obviously, what's something an unusual habit or something absurd that you kind of love that's part of all the businesses that you do. 27:39 As like a hobby or as like business. It could be either one. I have answered for both of these. I think podcasting on the business side is something I enjoy. I knew I needed to do it as like a as like, as like a pivotal point because I think we're going to the digital age, you need to build your own foundation, and your own credibility and leveraging your own brand is paramount, I think especially in these days. So I think podcasts is one of the things where I did it as like, I knew I needed to do it. But now I love it. As far as like personal stuff. I play chess, I like playing chess. I play a couple of themes as the chess.com. And we'll call it a day. 28:18 Oh, wow. That's like that's next level. That's like some Business Mastermind stuff right there. What's a new belief, behavior or habit that you think has improved your life or business that you've taken up in the last couple years? 28:32 I'm taking a day off. I think go I think a lot of entrepreneurs struggle with this as a whole. They struggle with it. But sometimes you got to take your time off you got to time block. You got to make it you got to make time for things that are important. I tell my wife I'm like if you want to plans if you want to go to the beach, like let me know at least a week two weeks in advance and I'll make it happen like there's no question if I can make it just let's do it. I'm down let's go. So I think I'm blocking and making time for the things that are important. A lot of people will be like oh I want to work to retirement and I want to get there in 10 years I'm like dude I'm I'm living the life I want to write now 29:13 on the business side. What do you think the worst the worst common advice that you hear about land flipping because you know for all me we're all land flippers now, what do you hear out there? That's like common and not good? 29:27 I was I was hoping you're just already had an answer and then you said land flipping and like oh no. 29:32 Okay, well, let's let's do both do do the answer that popped in your head first because that's generally the best one. 29:37 But at the top of my head versus dividends, I the dividend Twitter like they go off on rants about dividends and like I'm gonna I made $3 this month and I'm like dude, to like the best. The best investment you can make early on is in yourself. Because you can increase your ROI to bring in money. Like that's your number one asset like dividends is not number one thing you should invest in with your $10, you have left, you know, this, this should have been where it goes, it should be in your education. So dividends is always the first kicker to me. And I think if you're broke, you need to invest either in yourself to increase your capital, what type of capital you can bring in yourself. And then once you have a capital built up, and you can invest in other assets, and I always say dividends are for rich people, because they're the ones who can afford a 4% return. Like you if you're broke, you need to make more money than that, like I'm sorry. As far as for land investors, that's my two cents, the dividend Twitter just every time every time I see I don't even follow these people, but I've always commenting. 30:41 I've got I've got a small amount of personal experience with that not dividends, but buying a rental property, single family home rental property is kind of akin to dividends. So I save up all this money, I buy this property now. You know, dang, I'm turning 250 A month profit. It's like, yeah, that was a nice spend for 60. Grand, you know, so same thing, it's if you're if you're not there yet, you need to start biting off bigger chunks before you start doing the you know, those smaller returns like that. So 31:12 100%. So, land investors, I would say be open minded to larger, larger things, because you don't know if you can catch it. It's like one of those things where like, I'm so focused on my one thing, I never look at anything else. And I'm just hyper focused, I think hyper focus hyper. I think hyper focus is good and bad. At the same time, it depends on what stage you are in your business. Like I think early on hyperfocus is paramount because that's what delivers results. Once you have results in your area of proven strategy. I think, like easing back and being open minded, because there might there be opportunity that you can leverage that skill set that hyperfocus brought you, it can create more capital now at a larger scale. So I think a lot of people are stuck in that in that rut. And I always bring up like house flippers and like people that do houses because like, there's people to this day that have been doing flipping houses for 20 years. And the only thing they can do is flip more houses next year. That's always their goal. Like, good. Yeah, I don't want to flip more land next year might be bigger land, which is better? I might, it might be bigger assets. But I don't want to do more. I want to do less. Yeah, 32:20 absolutely. Absolutely. And so a talk about some other advice for new entrepreneurs that they should, what they should do, what they shouldn't do, and maybe expand a little bit on kind of your thought picture yourself as someone who's just getting into land, and the directions they can take and how they should, how they should go about that. 32:45 For if you're just starting on land, I recommend doing small get get your first 1015 deals under your bow, like practice with small stuff first, and you'll get more comfortable and knowledgeable in that space. So I think starting out wherever you fit in is 100% where you should start. Don't Don't step out of your comfort zone. Yes, you can learn other things, but just figure out how to do 10 deals, five deals a month, a deal a month, like wherever stage that is, try and try and figure out where that is. And then if you want to do bigger things. To stretch a little bit, don't don't break yourself trying to do a whole new thing we talked about this all the time is don't be don't be a well, Hunter. Because if you're willing, so you might start by the for your next meal. 33:32 Like that. 33:34 You might start with where you're hitting Mexico. So I think entrepreneurship is all about longevity. If most people that fall out of business as either an investor or an agent, they always fall out because they can't hang. So if you if you survive long enough, you'll get there. Because if you make baby Baby Baby baby steps to get there, it might take a year for some people or 10 years for some people is different different, different phases. Like I've seen people do a million dollars in their first year. And I've seen people do a million dollars after a year five year seven. Like it's one of those things where like, different people have different strides and you have to find your own where you fit in in that marketplace. And then just to kind of dig in and kind of grow at scale. Because one thing about investors and agents, they always get wiped out every time there's a new, like agents are struggling right now investors are struggling right now. It's hard to get capital right now. Like there's a lot of things that are influencing the market. And it's I think it's all about survival. So if you can survive long enough, you'll make it. I think a lot of investors they go, we mean that they asked me to talk about all the time like you see investors like I'm the wholesale wholesale, so I'm looking for houses, mobile homes and land all this stuff. And then six months later, I'm a I'm a refer sorry, I'm sorry, I understand the other pivot but I'm sorry. But as long as they get, they get they get pushed out of it for whatever reason. 35:03 I like that mental framework of not being a whale Hunter, I think we should name it the Moby Dick, the Moby Dick mental model. I'll keep that one with me there. I like it. 35:13 It's crazy. Because like, I mean, we hunt whales, but like, we're always, we tell people like Gavin do small deals, because that pays the bills and pays the bills. Like, if he's good with a hunter, like we have, we have a deal, closing this month that we will make, like 700,000. Yeah, we waited a long time for it. But it might take a long time to get up to that point to even receive that. So there's a lot of there's a lot of like, when we pivoted straight into big deals, we had no deals for like six months. There's a whole lag of catching up to that point. So if you didn't have extra cash, like you're gonna starve your business getting there before you even get the chance to even kill the whale, like, so it's one of those things where like, you always have to keep that back in machine that keeps the blood flowing. That's, 36:02 that's the key. What would you say for a Buy Box for beginner, like, if you're just going to kind of pick a niche with everything, you know, 36:12 I like I liked that deal. that I mentioned, I mentioned that a lot. Because I think a lot of cool stuff start there, you can find a $50,000 deal or less for 10 to 15 grand out there you got to market from you can make a good deal. And there's people out there that will buy that cash or buy that with 10 to $15,000 down, then we can talk about creating net cash flow from it. So I was talking about creating that cash flow, if you can do those type of deals over and over again, with little to no capital besides your marketing spend, and you can create cash flow over and over again, you're gonna be in the money really quick. And you can find a really good price points in that 50 Cane under a free market enough. So you can really create a lot of creative business off of that starting out. 36:54 And are you thinking, the 50k range, rural recreational infill lots close to cities? What do you like? Where are you? Where are you finding that type of county and targeting. 37:04 So it's gonna change everywhere you go, we like being within a certain we like being within an hour of the city because most people are willing to commute that far. So a lot of people like, Oh, you do desert squares. I'm like, I don't do desert squares. I know people that do and they do. They do okay with it. But I like being where people want to be. And that's where I operate. So you can find, and there's I was we equate it to like the donor, the donor has a hole in the middle, everywhere, the hole in the middle of Dallas and Chicago is, it's a million dollars a square foot, like it's insane. Like imagine buying a half acre in New York, like it's gonna be insane because they can build 100 foot building in there. So you got to think of don't operate within the donor that go outside and the answers. So if that's Dallas, you might go to North Dallas, East Dallas, west, south South Dallas, and operate within that little margin, you can find little half acre lots, one acre, lots, three acre lots for $50,000. And they're pretty they're in where people want to be. So we actually just picked up a little 10 acre deal in a certain market, which I don't want to say if you can find it. I did say in some other b2b pickup a little 10 acre deals right outside of town of a small town in Texas. And we were subdividing it into 11. Lots we picked it up for 225 are trying to sell all 11 Lots for 55 to 60,000 per lot. So we might make like four half million dollars on it. Give or take. 38:30 Beautiful, you're moving. I like the donut. Well, I'm going to name another mental model. We'll call that and the Homer Simpson. Right. They're like, give myself ways to remember this stuff. Yeah. That's great. That's great. So thank you for all this stellar information. You have the hive mind CRM, what other tools or businesses do you kind of offer to the community ways people can work with you? 38:59 Right now it's a we do a lot. But we have the land mastermind we have a land course you can actually text land 210-972-1842 That sends you to our land course. It's nine bucks, I think, and it's called subletting for success. We do land education once a week. For a week we call it the million dollar land mastermind you go to million dollar land mastermind.com/land mastermind, and that'll take you to there. I think it takes land that's what it goes to. But if you go if you hit the system in some way, you'll get offered it in some way. We have had mine CRM, which is our software set sauce software, SAS product used to help businesses. We have all different types of clients from notaries to real estate to agents to whatever. There's a lot of different uses for that, but it just helps you coordinate and operate your business effectively and more efficiently with the lead flow that you either create manually or great through ads or texting We're on every platform hive mind CRM, we produce a lot of content. We have a podcast called hive with those podcasts with over 400 episodes released, we're releasing two episodes a week right now, every Tuesday and Thursday. I did check that out. We've had a lot of cool guests from Twitter and online, but we cover a lot of different types of different types of diet type topics, from real estate, to business to marketing, health, you name it, we cover a lot of different cool stuff on there. But I like providing education and teaching people what you can do if you just do it consistently over time. 40:36 Well, we do an annual event 40:38 to I forgot to go to the hive his live.com/summit We do an annual event every year. This year is going to be in San Antonio, September 29, and 30th live event. I'm teaching and covering offers let's make an offers and we have a couple of cool guests coming in. I'm excited about but the hive is live.com/summits 40:59 killer. We'll put all those links I'll comment section or the show notes or the description so people can get them. Thank you very much for coming on the show letting us pick your brain and you are a true legend of land man. Thanks for coming on the show. Have a great day. All right. Thank you