0:01 Hey, welcome to the habit this podcast. I'm your host David Martinez. Today we have special guest, Mr. Brenton Bowers, who's another fellow land investor, we love talking to land investors. It's also part of the country you're from and start with that first question. Yeah, 0:15 I'm in South Florida. It's super hot here right now. So we're suffering. But kids going back to school today. 0:22 Oh, man might start next week. And I'm just my first one going to school. So this is kind of on edge a little bit for me and my wife. But I'm excited. It'll be alright. It'll be alright. Yeah. I'm kind of like, like to take the other one too. But it's fun. It's fun. I'm excited about I think the children growing up. And it's always a cool experience and fatherhood is fatherhood changed my life? So it's kind of a cool experience. It's a good time. It's good time for sure. So how long have you been doing real estate? And how long have you been doing 0:57 land? Yeah, man, I started in 2007, the first time so and then quit and 2009 and then started back up again in 2013. So I guess it's like 2013, really 10 years now the second time, but I failed big time, the first time. You know, I had to join the military to kind of reset my life. So I was in the military for about eight and a half years. And then I just had that calling back to entrepreneurship, real estate. And really, I was tired of being away from home all the time. So I needed to change and I found land. 1:36 Do you might want to tell what happened the first time? I mean, it was 2007. So I'm guessing I kind of guessed what happened. But no one really knows everything has kind of different story. And I think second part of that is think for your service. But I think the military is a great like reach transitioning point. So like realign your your life as a whole I think it's I think it's a great little transition. 1:56 Yeah, definitely helped me I, you know, got a heck of an education got my bachelor's degree started as an E one went to E five to become a noncommissioned officer, and then transferred over to the Commissioned Officer side of the world. So, you know, I did quite a bit in eight and a half years and was really excelling. But the main thing was, is like, the hardest thing for me was, I'm sick of always being away from home. And these these days are like 1314 hour days. So I wanted to be, you know, with my family. So, you know, it's as far as what happened in 2009. When I quit. I bought that first rental property in 2007. Right after I got my first my real estate license, and right after I bought that rental property, what's that? 2:40 No, I'm just saying, that's crazy. You bought your seven? 2:44 Yeah, you know, 100% loan, you know, the, the house was worth 124,000, I bought it for 124,000. And the loan was $124,000. And you know, then I got married right after that. And then we rented that house out. And I'm we moved to the coast to do real estate. And within about six months, I was flat broke, and like couldn't afford rent anymore. So I had to, you know, eat dirt with my landlord say, Look, I can't pay you next month, please let me out of this lease. And they did, and then slapped the judgment on me for the rest of the year that I owed them. So it was just like, snowball effect. So I'm like, asking my in laws, can we move into your 900 square foot house, your two and a half bedroom house, or really, we call it it was really a two bedroom house, but we cut one of the bedrooms and half for me and my wife and dog to sleep in and all shared one bathroom. So it was like, you know going backwards in life. So I need to reset. So I ended up trying to join the airforce, they wouldn't take me. So luckily the Air Force recruiter was kind enough to coach me a little bit and say, you know, go to the army. They'll take anybody so I did. 3:58 That's funny, man. That's, that's crazy, I think. And I think your your your your like down to zero moment has like projected you to whole new heights. So it's 100% It's weird how like, going to zero, especially as an adult after maybe you're married or have your first kid going to zero man, it forces you to like become a whole new version of yourself that you wouldn't even think was like, like, you can look back at yourself at that time. You're like, Man, that was crazy. But man that really set up my life to something great and amazing. 4:34 No, that's a good that's a good explanation. You're so right, because it's like, you know, I got through that we got through that. And then guess what other things happen in life. You know, there's it's never This too shall pass. You can always get through any any challenge and we're guaranteed these challenges. If we just if all of us would just get out of bed every morning and say thank you God today for giving me the armor to deal with the challenges Is that I'm gonna get today? I think it would change our all of everyone's lives. 5:05 Yeah, I literally tweeted last night so the said that failure is what molds people to success. 5:12 Yeah, there you go. 5:16 So started land investing back in 2013 when you hit the reset after the reset what is like a lot of people, a lot of people like don't invest in land because it doesn't cash flow and it doesn't do all these 5:28 things. Like I love that. 5:31 I tell people this all the time this is my quote is like a lot of people don't invest land because there's a cash flow. And as I like it because it doesn't cash flow creates its own, it creates its own motivation. 5:42 Yeah, that's a huge myth. And that's why there's virtually no competition in this business. I actually started in 2013, I got back into houses, and I started buying rentals. And then I started Wholesaling Houses to pay for college classes, and also get out of debt from those rentals. And then when it was nice until it stopped working the Wholesaling Houses because I moved to Colorado Springs, me and my, my family, or me and my wife at the time, we didn't have kids yet. And then it like something happened. Like everyone got into house wholesaling, like it was like, you know, this new phenomenon. And my mailer stopped working, and then I would send out a bunch of mailers for houses and 2015 timeframe. And like, it was like crickets. And then guess what, when the calls, the calls would start, as soon as I would go on, like a training or a, you know, a field exploration, and I can't have my cell phone. So we would literally wasted money. So I went in debt again. And I was searching for answers early 2016 heard on a podcast just like this, a guy talking about flipping land and doubling his money. And I'm like, if half of what he's said is true. I'm on board with that, and I'm getting out of the military. 6:55 So let's, let's dive into this a little bit. So you've actually done both I've been 100% land and then I literally my only half steel was as a seller finance my house, my original house I got through my own financing. So I like sub two Mountain House. But my first house Exactly. But you've done both. So let's let's go down that houses versus land topic. Oh, yeah, this is gonna be fun. Because a lot of people, like everybody invest in houses and rentals. And doctors and lawyers, they always think it's like, Oh, I'm gonna go buy rentals, I want 100 doors. The all the door metric is just a vanity metric that like, how much do you really cashflow off each door? And is it really worth the risk and management and all that stuff? So you've done both? Yeah, let's kind of jump down a few of these things. Cash Flow flips, houses versus land. Let's dig into this. Because yeah, a lot of people need to hear this. And I think a lot of people go straight into houses, because that's where the most information is. 7:56 Yeah. And that's what's glamorized, we got HGTV, and all these things. And I'll tell you, I got caught up in that house flipping too, because it was like, sexy. And, Bill, I wanted to build my ego and, and I had just gotten out, I got out of the military to spy on a lot of time, and the land was actually supporting all this, looking back at financials and balance sheets, and, you know, listening to a smart accountant. So and I didn't always have that, but going to, you know, houses versus land, I still have a lot of these rentals and, and I can't sell them because if I do, I'll get hit so hard with taxes, because I've been doing what's called Cost Segregation and depreciation on it. So it's like, I'm kicking the tax burden down the road, the only thing I can do is sell these things. If I did sell them, I need to buy a bigger, more expensive property and hopefully bring in more cash flow. But we basically breakeven on our houses until something breaks, then we lose money. But I've got one house and the rents like 1000 a month, the mortgage is 700. Pretty good, right? 789 10. Everyone's like, Oh, I got $300 A month cash flow, I'm doing really well. No, you're actually sucking because in this one house, this one house unless the house is brand new, then you probably got about 10 years and you're good bit but like houses are like apples. The second they touch the ground, they hit the ground, something eats them, or they rot. So that's why the government gives us these incentives, the IRS to depreciate these properties, but in the last 45 days on one of these rental properties, that what I'm getting that 1000 a month for I pay 700 a month for the mortgage. I got like a 3% interest rate. Great, right? Really good. Well, there's a property manager and she keeps 100 of that. So really, I'm only cash on 200 Well, in the last 45 days, the furnace went out I'm sorry that this was a I shouldn't say the furnace went out the air conditioner went out the sewer line messed up and clogged and we had to replace that sewer line was 7500 bucks the furnace arms or the air conditioner was 5500. And also we had to put gutters on the house too because the house was starting to settle because the water was running back. We call that a negative grade. So this house if nothing ever breaks again, I might start getting a positive cashflow in about eight and a half years. 10:23 Awesome. That's terrible. That's amazing. So one thing I love about like the house the house land conversation is that like when you buy land you're literally buying it at the bottom like everywhere you go you like stocks you can buy at the bottom, at the bottom of the bottom land you buy the bottom every time. Yeah, it's only be improved. So let's go let's go but let's go down the land game 10:45 or you inherited land deal when we just recently did and I love that you're a land investor to Daniel. I'm in good company. There's not a lot of smart guys. I'm just kidding. There's not a lot of guys like that out out there. But I mean, the reason why I'm in land is because I'm just a simple dude like I don't like all the moving parts like I was in the army were knuckle draggers, you know, I wasn't smart enough to go in the Air Force. But let's let's compare a land deal that I just I did recently, I bought it for 40,000. And we it took a little while to buy this parcel of land because the seller, husband died. So they were going through probate. So what did that give me? It gave me six months to find my buyer. So we're advertising for a buyer, the seller is cool with it, because we told her we're going to do it. Or we asked her if it was okay. 11:32 What's that? Sounds terrible. Six months to find a buyer? 11:36 Yeah, almost six months? We did, we found one for $90,000. Because that's what we're advertising it for. And we were offered $5,000 down, and a monthly payment of 946 a month. So where do I get the 40,000 to buy the land? Well, my mother in law's got some cash that she's not earning any interest on. So she wanted to earn some interest and have her funds secured by land at less than 60 cents on the dollar. So she's safe. So we never touched her money, she wired it to the to the title insurance company, we got her a lenders insurance policy, she's in the first lien holder position. So if I don't pay her, she takes the land and the buyer. And that would be an awkward Thanksgiving dinner this year. But um, we have the buyer at 90,000, we get $5,000 down the day, we closed on it. So I've made money immediate with land immediately I made was profitable immediately, I was profitable. And I'll be profitable forever. So my mother in law's pay was 800 a month at 9% interest and she'll be paid off in five years, 60 months, my buyers pay me for a little over 13.9 years. So the difference of 946 a month and 800 is only $146 a month. So all the house guys said see I get $300 A month net, you're only getting 146. You loser. Well, nothing's gonna break on that land for five years, because there's nothing to break. I'm keeping the difference of that for for five years, 60 months, that's like that's like almost seven grand or something like that. And at the end, when my mother in law was paid off, I still got many, many years left to get that 100 I'm sorry, that $946 Now I keep in my pocket every single month. So do the math, that's over $100,000. And I'm getting monthly payments for the next almost 14 years. 13:25 I was trying I was trying to do the math as far as what your ROI was if it was your capital. But since it was your your mother in law's capital, you get it technically infinite return. But if it was your capital, it would probably be like a 30% return. 13:37 Well, you know why I didn't use my 40,000 because I spent the money somewhere else I had I had the funds in an account to buy that land. And guess what, when we're investors, there's always another deal tomorrow. So I spent that money. And finally it's time to close. And I was like, Oh crap, what am I going to do? So I called my mother and I was like, Hey, did you still have some money you want to invest? And she said, Yeah, I said, Can you Can we get it here in the next week and a half wired to the title company. So we walked her through it, and it was done. And they're making 800 ollars a month. And here's where here's where you got to be really good. I use a company called bill.com to pay my lenders and my vendors. And guess what bill.com was paying my inlaws late. And I found that was three late payments. So I sent them 150 bucks, $50 each. And that's my mother in law, but like those things happen. So now we send the payment on the 20th. So it makes it into their account on the first. So there's one of the challenges. Make sure you pay your lenders on time and if you don't pay that late fee. 14:42 Yeah, yeah. Well, one thing one thing that's cool is just that small deal. Just a small deal can yield such a high ROI. And it's not even your money. If you can raise the money or even if you use your own money, it's still good ROI. Yeah, a lot of people like the net cash flow without the headache is worth it. 15:02 It's so worth it. Now, here's another thing we could have done with that seller. She now got $40,000. And I'm sure that money's gone. And we've seen sellers get that cash, and then they're one of their children take it from them. So the best thing we could have done for that seller was all for her financing. Mrs. Seller, what if we gave you monthly payments, and we paid you off over the next 13 years, you know, at 9% interest, now she gets a payment, we get a payment, you know, we could have basically gave that seller a monthly payment. And then we sold it to our buyer, we got a down payment, she would get a down payment. So let's just say our buyer gave us 5000 down, which he did. We gave that seller 2500 down. Now that seller gets 500 a month, we get 946 a month, we could have still done the same thing with the sellers money, because a lot of people listening to this might think, well I don't have like 40,000 And I don't know anybody that has 40,000 I used to think the same thing, by the way. And Oh, also, I've done land deals where the lender only had 13,000 and I thought that's all she had. So I've done smaller deals and then she comes back to me like a year later and says I have 65,000 More than I'd like for you like there's always more 16:22 so land cash flow. And this is where like land doesn't cash flow you have to make a cash flow you become the bank position yourself as the bank houses you have to there's always expenses that come out and this is with Landis net cash flow straight with no hiccups or hang ups. And House cash flow is comes with the string attached. 16:44 Yep, Yep, absolutely. 16:47 I think I think it's I think it's a great point. I like land because one of our earlier deals we did early on was a $40,000 lot. We got it for 8000. And we sold it for 8000 Down 500 a month. 17:00 Oh my God. Let me get the hit the victory bell for you. There you go. I love that man. That's amazing. Are you still getting paid on that? 17:08 Yes. So Wow. There's there's there's a lot of opportunity out there and like, like, how many 35,000 45,000? No, lots are out there. 17:17 A lot. There's more than there's more 35,000 or lots out there than there are houses and mobile home parks and multifamily put together. 17:26 Yep. Yep. I always say this is like land has the most it's the largest asset class and nobody touches. 17:34 Yeah, cuz they don't see a way to make money with it. Like I used to drive by it every day. And there's many, many ways to make money. My dad has 10 acres 10 acres of swamp land. He rents it out every year for $6,000 in advance, really, because there's a lot of deer in Turkey that come through there and hogs. And guess what that 10 Acres is surrounded by South Florida Water Management owns all around it. So really, he's got like 400 acres to hunt on. Well, now you can't you're technically trespassing if you walk off the land, but you can hunt the perimeter of it. Still, you're technically trespassing. But you have you're surrounded by basically Bureau of Land Management. In another words. 18:18 Yeah. So this is most talking about ways to create cash flow. I think that's a good topic. He kind of went into a hunting lease. What's other ways to create cash flow off the land that a lot of people don't don't realize or even know how to do? 18:32 Yeah, I had 14 acres. And I was I finally sold that land. But the whole the most of the time I owned it, I rented it out. I rented out the pasture for cattle and I made money that way. Finally, I sold it for 29,000 down. And my payment was 666 a month. And I sold it on a 30 year mortgage. I bought it for 75,000 and that seller financed me 0% interest and he wanted 30,000 down. Where did I get that? 30,000 I got it from my buyer. And then I basically did an arbitrage the seller had the first lien position. I had the second lien. So I gave my buyer a 30 year mortgage. And he paid that mortgage for roughly a little over 36 months, three years. And then they sold it that that that loan went from 128,900 over that 36 months down to 124,000. Like that math doesn't work out right. I collected over 22,000 and payments in the loan only went for down $4,000 I didn't do anything like I didn't create that the banks did that. Actually FDR Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Roosevelt created that. The FDR loans the 30 year mortgage but the first seven years of a 30 year mortgage is pretty much all front and loaded interest. Yep. So I hope they go at least seven years and don't pay me off and if they do I just get my profits sooner. and I move it to the next one. 20:02 So actually did actually did a breakdown on Twitter. And what's cool about interest and I don't know if you know this, I actually did the math because I was curious of where it is. And all these Dave Ramsey fans like, oh, pay your mortgage off early, put your mortgage off early. It actually increases the interest rate you pay by paying early. Wow. Yes, it does. So let's say you have a 10% interest loan, that 10% Interest Loan is across 30 years. So if they go day, one to day, month, or month, one to month 360. That's a full 10% amortized interest loan. If but if they pay that at any point sooner, the rate the lender gets goes up, because they're paying back sooner, because the ROI you actually receive is when you get paid back. Interesting. So if they go month, one to month 360, that's a 10% ROI. But if they paid it back in three years, you might have got like a 15 or 12%. Roi. 20:56 Oh, yeah, velocity of money. Yeah. And there's a great book called Investing in paper. Invest in that But Jimmy Napier There you go out of what Shipley Florida he's no longer with us, but invest in debt. Yeah, I learned that in that book. 21:13 Yep. So I actually did the numbers on it. And it's crazy. Because like, like, yeah, you pay less interest, but you accelerate your your ROI that you're paying or your interest that you're paying? Yes, as a borrower and then you as a lender, you actually get a higher ROI because 21:27 social capital, yeah, you get it back faster velocity of money. Yeah. So I love it when they pay back, you know, the sweet spot, I feel like for me, my my opinion is like within like, three years. 21:40 And this is where like, you can do a full 30 your hands? Or do you do any balloons at all. So kind of, 21:45 No, I've never done a balloon, because I just don't want to set a buyer up for failure. Because, you know, I've done a lot of how I've deflections a lot. I've done five houses now where I sold a lease with the option to buy. And I have had to extend all five of those leases, because no one ever made it during that option time. And it's like, I don't want to set up a buyer for failure, I want them to ultimately take ownership of that land 22:13 100%. And this is where like, I think it's and we have every right to like repossess or re foreclose on that property and take it back. But I think that all in all goals, like even with houses or land, I want them to own it. I really do. Like I my goal, my goal, my position marketplace is on providing unobtainable land, and I'm offering seller financing to make it ease, but I do want them to own it, I don't want to take it back if I don't have to, I want. 22:38 And you know, there's another deal that you can get tomorrow, like you don't need this land back, you know, if anything, I have too much land right now, you know, I've got my office going through our list, because we, we, we bought a bunch of land, like we got a little crazy with it. And we were in between sales guys. And now we've like, we're not sure if this one was sold, or this parcel is sold, because our our Excel document got messed up. But we're about to unload a bunch of land because we've been sitting on it for a while. So if anything, I have too much inventory. So I don't want to take this stuff back. If if they're paying, you know, $300 a month and they get behind. If $150 a month is better for them, we will remodel, we'll do a loan modification, no charge, and put that amount they owe on the back end and reset it like because at the end of the day, I want to keep those payers paying and happy. Those are my customers. Those are my those are, I'm doing air quotes. Those are my residents or my tenants. 23:35 Yeah, and that's a different land but you want them to own it and for whatever reason they wanted to buy it and they put the downpayment download like this, keep them in the property and keep them paying and I think it's cool that you do at low mods with them if they need to restructure the loan. Because I think I think a lot of people are sharks play a planet where it's there sharks and yeah, 23:55 love it into the 23:58 sharks in the business game and you don't really don't have to be there's so much opportunity out there. And there's always another like I said, there's always another opportunity for another deal. And I think us in the land game, we know how much opportunity there is. So we're not necessarily stuck on that one deal. Whereas has to be like, I need to make money on this deal or else I'm never gonna do deals do it again. And it's just always like the doom and gloom of houses. 24:20 Yeah, Yep, absolutely. And I found that if you treat every person you're dealing with and negotiating with and doing business with or talking to like they are someone else's entire world. It changes everything. You know, just knowing that that person they mean the world to someone else. So like just just treat them like that. 24:44 So let's talk about a little bit. What markets are you in? What markets are you buying? You're buying and hold? Where can people they want to buy land? Where can they go? Yeah, sorry about that. 24:55 Yeah, so right now I'm really heavily in Florida. I just fell into Utah on accident, I'm going to Utah deal going on right now, I started this in Colorado when I was stationed at Fort Carson, Colorado and Colorado Springs, then move to Florida because that's where my dad was, oh pops, he's turning 6061 years old tomorrow. And he said about 50 land deals. He's done manual labor, his entire life, like land is the best investment strategy. It's the lowest barrier of entry. You know, it's not like buying houses and, and God forbid, all the world goes to heck, land is not going anywhere. Like you can farm it, you can ranch or you can put cows on it, you can live on it, you can build on it, you can dig the dirt out of it and create a pond and put fish in it. Like, there's so many things you can do with it. But as far as the places I'm really heavily invested in Florida, and how can people find land for sale right now, you know, there's a plethora of websites out there, you know, we got like, land.com land watch, heck, you can go on my, my website, vacant land of the free.com, which I need to update. But I'm now using real estate agents to sell all of our land, you know, I'm done selling myself, that's a lot of work, you know, a lot of work and I can't believe like sometimes I think I'm so dumb. You know, it took me years to figure out, I just need to go a little bit more expensive land. So these real estate agents will sell it, you know, if they don't go out there and hunt and kill, they don't eat. So I liked I was able to get to I was gonna say get rid of which I will say I was able to get rid of a couple of virtual assistants that were just just dead weight on my team. And I no longer have to employ a full time salesperson. So my team is shrank. We rented out the office. We now all work from home and I've got a very small team. But as far as how to find land for sale, you know, you want to get down into the mechanical details like the step by step. 26:57 Yeah, I mean, I was more of like what you had for sale and like how you move inventory, but we can go down to like how you market it, right mail because I don't know about how you market to I 27:06 do direct mail, I'll tell you what, it's the best marketing strategy I've ever found. I send out what I call LLS land offer letters, or we call them laugh out loud because we just got a smokin hot land deal. If anybody wants to copy that. I've been Triple Split testing this land offer letter against postcards against like things that look like checks, and these lol 's are outperforming the other two put together, go to the land sharks.com forward slash lol and I'm gonna ask you for a little bit of information and then we will email it over to you that's the land sharks.com forward slash lol or land offer letter. But that's what we're sending the people to buy their land these things come back signed. How do I find the areas I want to invest in? I just go on Zillow and Redfin. And I see what the land selling. And I and then I use prop stream to pull a list of those landowners and I send them out an offer letter. 28:07 I was muted. I know, a lot of people like you might overcomplicate that, and I'm really, I'm really glad your dad's doing this too. That's amazing. My dad ever construction for 30 years. He recently passed, but it's one of those things where I hope I was getting into real estate but 28:23 I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah. 28:25 It's cool, man. I think I had interviewed a guy last night in the snap. Last episode. I've interviewed a guy recently, like last week that he hired his dad and his dad works as operations now. Something like this. It's really cool to kind of kind of get back to your family and bring a little nepotism into business. Why not? Yeah, 28:45 yeah, absolutely. Nepotism, I learned what that meant on the office. Like, you know, it's almost like I'm learning new words here watching this TV show. Nepotism. 28:56 That's awesome. So tell me a little bit about like, so you're doing the yellow offer is that 100% Your your marketing strategy that we only do that. 29:06 Now I'll send some postcards to my dad likes the postcards a lot more, because it doesn't take the work up front. So the land offer letters, a little work up front, but not as much in the back marketing is we call D attracting the people that we don't want to speak to and attracting, attracting the people we want to speak to what do I mean by that? Like, I don't want to talk to the people that want a big bag of money for their land. I do want to talk to people that are like, Oh, he sent us this offer seems a little low, but what the heck, we'll take it, sign it, send it back. Like I don't want to have to be having phone calls. Like I just bought a piece of land over email. I should say over email. He received one of our land offer letters here in Vero Beach, Florida, like this expensive land out here. And we ended up buying it for 15,000 Sold it really quickly for 30,000. I had six weeks, six weeks to find my buyer and I actually didn't make that six week mark because it was during the summer Over time, it's a little slower in Florida out here. But I've like what the heck, I'll buy it's 15,000. And we sold it about a week and a half later for 30,000. Or went under contract, I should say I get paid. I think in a couple weeks, I don't know week or so on that on that land deal. But I never spoke to that seller, it was only via email, he sent it back via email, which is like, I can't believe I used to have conversations with these house. House sellers, like, have to talk to them multiple times go sit on their couch, throw my shoes away when I left, because I just walked through, you know, dog poop or something like that in their carpet in their living room. And this, this ceilings, like hanging down like I'm, I'm breathing in this mold and stuff. And it's like, I'm just doing this from the comfort of my own home. You know, buying this land, this is a lot easier. It's like buying stocks. But it's tangible. 30:53 It's an underpaid therapist sometimes too. 30:57 Oh, my gosh, I was definitely a therapist when I was trying to buy people's houses at discounts. And you kind of imagined, like, they raised their family in this house for like 18 years, and they bought it and they never painted it or replaced the carpets. But they're always told like their house is the biggest investment. Well, what are the investments? Do they they're supposed to go up in value? Right? So they should they should earn, you know, more more than what they pay for that house? 25 years ago, right? 31:23 Yeah, the house game. I hope everybody ever loosens up. So because like, I always try to tell people about houses, houses house. I mean, I bought land. And people just look at me sideways, like, oh, you probably invest in desert squares. I'm like, No, we don't. And I try and I try and stay away from the desert I'm looking for where people want to be valuable land that people own. That doesn't generate money. It's just paying a tax burden. And they're ready to get rid of it. And it's no, it's no negotiation. 31:52 Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with desert squares, I bought a bunch of them. And we sold a lot of them. You know, we bought like 120 of those things for like $300 a month and sold most of them and keyword most of them, I got tired of selling them for about $4,400 each. And I still have about 20 of those left. If anybody wants some land and Apache Arizona, call me I'll make you a smokin hot deal. 32:14 Man. See, I try to stay away from those like I where we're at as let me try and set like a minimum value. Like we don't mess with nothing over under 50 grand. And it's just, I don't want to do nothing. 32:25 There. But I was just starting out I had what I was doing sounds like I've got $391 and I'll trade $391 For for $4,400 all day long. So that was just what gave me my start. 32:38 Oh, yeah, you got to start somewhere and you learn a lot. You learned a lot. 32:43 Literally learned a lot. No pun intended. 32:48 That's so funny. Where can people find you online? I really appreciate you coming on this episode and providing some lay in house education here. And hopefully people at least endeavor and put stuff there to dip their toes into the land game because it's one of those things I think a lot of people that they get stuck in their little rut like there's house flippers that have been doing houses for 20 years and they do 200 House flips a year and like they don't even look at any other opportunity. You know, it's I think it's kind of pointless, but I think you should keep your eyes open for other opportunity that may be less work and less effort. Yeah, 33:20 they're too busy flipping houses and making sure the contractors aren't stealing stuff and getting getting ripped off and they gotta watch the security cameras at nighttime. It got so bad we had to put cameras on the houses and security systems I was like this is not like you know, no way but as far as where can people find me I'm all over you know the socials Brent l net Yes, l stands for land Brent l Bowers one on most of my socials I'm on YouTube and tick tock and pretty much do a tick tock video every day on how to make money in land. So follow me on tick tock 33:52 Brent l Bowers land I'm gonna own that. My own that trademark Brent land Bowers. 33:59 That's right. The land man, 34:02 the land man. Now there's there's plenty opportunity here. Don't Don't be afraid of just learn to your first deal, whether it's big or small and learn, learn through, learn through the pain or find a mentor and you'll learn a lot really quickly. And you don't necessarily have to be the best at it and still make money. 34:20 Yeah, you can make a lot of mistakes and still make money in this in this business because that's why I buy it at such big discounts like the Lanham binding Utah right now. I don't know if we have time for that. But I almost made a huge mistake. I thought it was sell for about a million bucks. And I my first my first offer was 550,000. He accepted it, and he was going to sell our finance to me. And then he came back he said my wife doesn't want to sell or finance but we'll lower the price at 375 And I'm like, oh my god, I'm still in this land. I felt bad. I was like what do I do? And I finally got a hold of my land specialist realtor out there and he goes man, like I've got bad news for you. This side, you might be able to sell for about 550,000 but a stone's throw away, they're going for a million. And I'm going off of a million dollar number, not 550,000 So I had to go back and renegotiate again, for 525 Well, he just came back to me for 535 I gotta send them the addendum I will take it at 535 But it's like, you know, that's that was a lot of back and forth. And, you know, you can make mistakes very easily in this business. 35:33 100% on a percent. Well, oh, one more question. What is a quote that is yours or somebody else's that you resonate with? 35:40 Oh, man, there's so many quotes. I was not expecting that. Cheese. Gotcha. I would just say I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you my own quote because I took it from like you always hear that take massive imperfect action. I think that came from like Tom Kroll and he probably got it from somebody. But I like to say I added to it make massive, imperfect, violent action every single day. 36:07 You go. It was a good episode. Thanks for coming in Brent. For everybody here. Go like, share, subscribe. We'll see you on the next episode. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you have a good day guys. Bye.