0:00 Hey, welcome to the hybrids podcast. I'm your host, Mr. Daniel Martinez. Today we have a special guest in the land space and investor. Mr. Wayne ever saw I said that correctly, right? Yes, you 0:12 did ever so good to meet you, man, how you doing? 0:14 Good to meet you too, man. I'm excited about this call. We spoke briefly like a week ago, maybe two weeks ago. And then now we're actually having a podcast. And I love doing podcasts because I get to explore the person a little bit more. And we go a little bit deeper. And it's kind of carrying the conversation, but we expose it to the world. Wherever you're watching, this is for you. But we kind of met a little bit briefly a little while ago. But what part of the country are you from? 0:37 I currently live in Montana, just outside of Great Falls, 0:40 Montana. I'm guessing you probably have like a big ranch or something? 0:44 Actually, I don't know. We're working 0:47 on it. In the future plans. 0:48 There's Yeah, we're working on it. That's part of what our investment fund is all about. So we'll be there after but 0:53 yeah, I think we're trying to find a big ranch too, and then do the whole thing. But what our goal is to get it for free. And there you go. That's, that's the goal. So like, yeah, you can, you can go out and buy whatever you want. But if you get it for free, that's a story. So we're trying to find a way to get like 1000 acres and sell 100 of it and keep 200 for free. And just something like that, and that that'd be the story. And we build something on there. 1:19 I'm sure it's doable. 1:21 But so that's that's the plan. So you are a fund manager and investor How long have you been an investor as a real estate as a whole? It's been off 1:33 and on over the years, I lost most of my real estate in the Oh 809 crash. So I've got the battle scars to show that for the show for that. But right now, I'm not I don't have a whole lot of real estate, I'm focusing primarily on the investment fund, which is into regenerative agriculture, and the potential for clean water that we can do and the increase in soil health, which brings profitability to the agri agriculture section. So 2:03 So I really want to talk to you about this because I don't know nothing about this as a whole. Let's talk about regenerative agricultural. Let's talk about what's the definition of that. And let's kind of jump a little bit down that rabbit hole. Sure. 2:16 So my background is I have about 10 years experience in a cover crops and soil health consulting for farmers, specifically helping farmers that have farmed what was termed as conventional farming practices, transition to regenerative agriculture. So those are laid out largely my references the noble Research Institute out of Ardmore, Ardmore, Oklahoma, has published a six criteria for regenerative agriculture. And I like to distill it down to three and basically is you're keeping the soil covered, you're stopping all or most tillage or all tillage of the soil. And you're having some form of inoculation, regular inoculation of from cattle and manure and things like that. And these principles have been demonstrated most prominently by Jay Pharaoh, the University of North Dakota, as being able to rebuild soil organic matter and soil health fastest. So, traditional farming since about World War Two has been largely mono cropping. Whereas regenerative agricultural is diverse of species bringing more different types of species into the mix at least three different cash crop in a rotation as well as keeping the soil covered. So stopping tillage means you know tree conventionally you would tilled the soil maybe once twice a year, maybe you would summer follow it, or can follow it means you kept it sprayed out all the weeds sprayed down on it. But what is happening is when you do that, when you don't have any living root in the soil, for as long as possible, your microbiome starts to deteriorate and your soil so by having diversity of species of plant regularly inoculation and stopping tillage, as your soil transitions to being becoming healthier, your input costs can go down. And so on average, we see about 75% reduction in chemical usage from conventional farmers. And that includes synthetic fertilizers, insecticides, herbicides, all that kind of stuff. Which is where the profitability comes from for regenerative agriculture of operators once they can get through the first three years the first three years are the most difficult. And the reason we started the fun is because most farmers number one the average age of a North American farmers almost 58 years old. Number two, most of them are so are so tight on income and cash flow and profitability. They can't afford those three years of training In addition to make that transition. So I'd like to say there's I don't know of any other industry out there that has such a high capital investment for so little return as agriculture. And it's one reason why we're losing more and more land that's leaving the agricultural space. And it's why the age of our farmers is so high because the younger generation is not coming into it, because it's not profitable enough for him. So we're hoping to change that with our fund. 5:27 That's awesome. Okay, I want to I want to enter the queue few key points. So I have heard of the rotating crops thing. I didn't really understand it, but they kind of explains that. And then like, farmers not having fun capability to do that is I mean, I totally understand that too. Because I think farmers are already tight as an old they run a very high margin business. And it's the cashflow is terrible. Yes. It's a, it's not a very profitable business. But what are the like returns or yield, you can get just by regenerative farming and reap, like carrying that land? Like, what's the yield output you get just by doing that process? 6:07 Well, it varies. And one of the principles, that's a part of the regenerative ag code is also context. So where are you located? Are you in the northern North America, northern part of North America? Are you south? Are you in a more of a dry land, you know, an arid climate or a wetland, you know, if you're in the Midwest, where a lot of corn and soybeans are grown, a lot of those farmers are just doing corn, maybe corn on corn, and then when your soybeans or something like that. Whereas if you're in you know, if you're in the Front Range of the Rockies, where you get very little moisture, on average, you know, your, your, your approach is totally different. So it varies, but the principle that we like to say is, yes, you're probably the first three years you might even take a yield hit. But eventually that yield will come back. But where the benefit comes from where you double your profitability is the reduction in input cost. So you're not spraying as much you're not putting as much fertilizer down as you were at one time you're not doing as much tillage or you're spending the diesel field until was much. Or if you're doing chem fallow, you're not spending, you know, paying for to spray passes on chem fallow in a season. So there's, there's a lot of context varies greatly. But the core principles there of keeping the soil covered, keeping a living root their diversity of species and regularly inoculation from livestock are kind of the core principles that as Gabe Brown has said, they work wherever they're tried. 7:35 Gotcha, gotcha. No, I think it's cool, because I think it's, you're you're bringing back you're bringing back stuff to life that always be kind of desolate. You know, when you 7:46 really think about the soil, with the mono with heavy tillage to have a chemical usage, and the mono cropping, it's are mostly monocropping has been done, has largely mined the soil of its nutrients. So you need and if you don't have much of a microbiome left in that soil, there's nothing there to produce plant soluble nutrients for that soil. So you need your fungus networks, to for communication for interplant communication and transport of nutrients to plants. And you need your bacterias to digest the raw minerals down to plant soluble minerals. And that's what and that's where the growth comes from. And that's where the profitability comes from. Because eventually, when you manage that herd below the soil, it takes care of what's above the soil. 8:31 So let's talk about little your background. So your work for a company, and this is I love this, too, because a lot of people they take their prior history, and they're like, Oh, that's not gonna be useful for anything. Yeah, this is where like you kind of I think you've kind of laid out a path and and kind of cover that a little bit now. But you weren't, you have a degree or something in this in this field? Well, my 8:52 backgrounds in accounting information systems, started out at a high school with IT company, software company. And that eventually led to me being an IT manager of a retail chain store in central Pennsylvania. Eventually, I went out and bought my own first business and started buying a couple of businesses turned into more into consulting work. And then Oh 809 The business I had then we were into marketing and website development. But we were doing for a lot of manufacturers that were tied to the real estate business. And so that's we lost like in 2009. We lost like 75% of our contracts in one year. So it was it was a difficult time. And that's kind of where I started on the consulting thing. And working for different companies as a consultant. And I got this opportunity to work for a company called Covercraft solutions. And that's what kind of my dad had. I grew up in the building industry. My dad had a little format and stuff um, took care of a few animals. And growing up I had helped some farmers as well. So farming was not new to me. And that's but what was happening what was then that was even before regenerative ag Agriculture was a term that everybody used. It was just like, we talked about cover cropping and soil health and no till and all those concepts. And that whole package is what became regenerative agriculture. So, I had the privilege of working with a gentleman by the name of Steve Groff, from south central Pennsylvania, he was a partner he had started the whole cover crop solutions business, he had been no tilling and practicing soil. regenerative agriculture from the mid 90s, actually, was very instrumental in the Chesapeake Bay cleanup effort. And taking these principles that we now know as regenerative agriculture and applying them to clean up the Susquehanna River and the creeks that flowed into it, which led to cleaning up the Chesapeake Bay and fostering a whole fresh revived fish environment and crab environment in the Chesapeake Bay. And even to this day, if you go down there to Tangier Island and talked to those fishermen, they'll tell you, the bay is probably one of the best conditions it's been in the last 50 100 years. So all that has led to positive outcomes for everybody downstream, even though they're not tied directly to agriculture. So working under him, and being involved in this regenerative ag space for the last 10 years, I got to learn firsthand on how regenerative agriculture impacts not only the farmer and the profitability of the farm, but everybody that goes on to eat that food and all the water that flows downstream from that. It affects a lot of people. And so my vision was, how can we make farming more profitable, and more more environmentally friendly for everyone, and so that more and more people get involved in it, and produce food that's healthier, and a better waterways, and streams and everything are all cleaned up. So I'm better at environmental impact. So yeah, that's my background, and it and finance kind of brought me brought these things all together into kind of a unique package. So 12:00 I think I think it's a, it was 2030 years in the making, and it's all coming together right now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you have no idea what would come about in this, I think, I think a lot of people they, like, oh, I have a plan, like, but women, women and people like that, I have to have a plan A B, and I'm gonna get to where I get to Z. And I'm like, sometimes it's got the path creates itself, and you figure it out on the way. 12:26 Yeah, it was, I always thought I was gonna be in the IT space or the finance space. But I always had in the back of my mind that I wanted to do something in finance. In fact, I tried to start an investment fund as early as 2006. And then again, in 2015, and just kind of was overwhelmed with all the regulations and all that kind of stuff. But working as a CFO for an agriculture Equipment Company, having my own businesses and now launch actually launching the fun. It is a combination of all varied skill set, and one that I think will produce a lot of impact and dividends for our investors, but also impact on environmental impact. Because we're focusing on the Mississippi Watershed. Now, we were I'd like to see us be a part of doing for the Gulf of Mexico, what we were able to do with the Chesapeake Bay. So 13:16 it's a it's a big mission. I think I'm all for the mission. I think everybody, you have to find what you love doing and have a big mission. That's that makes sense. And changing that in my head. I'm like, you could be the turning point of agriculture in the US. Well, that's kind of the goal. So I want to talk about the fun space a little bit, too, because I think a lot of people they try and over and over complicate, complicate complicated things. It's not that it's complicated. It's just that you have to understand the basics. I think the way the United States is run, it's run by money and ideas. When the two come together, that's when I think capitalism happens. The good capitalism, you know, not the crony capitalism. You can have bad capitalism, where bad ideas create bad things, but I think good capitalism is where good ideas create good things. And I think I think a lot of people overcomplicate it, and I think a lot of people have good ideas, but second action on the good ideas. Yeah. Jumping in. So I think your whole concept is you have a good idea. You already have the skill set, you already know the knee you seen the need, and then you're putting trying to get the capital behind it to make the game come to fruition. I think that's a that's a good mission anybody can get by 14:33 Yeah. Now the whole fun thing, like I said, was overwhelming. I tried twice before to launch it. But, um, you and I are part of a program that helps emerging fund managers helps people get started in that and that has been a huge help for us. Or even even initially, I was just gonna start with like a real tiny little hedge fund thing because, you know, on my side, I do a little bit of trading and do a little bit investing and things like that. And so, I was kind of thinking about just doing this whole Many hedge fund thing just to get started and learn the ropes and stuff, but I had a broker dealer that we're working with, to help us find investment funds. And he's like, oh, you know, what's your goal with this? What do you really want to do? And that's when I started laying out the vision of regenerative agriculture as an investment opportunity. And he said, you need to do that right now, he said, that is really hot. And I said, there's a lot of potential money out there for that, you know, I know a lot of people don't like the ESG term, but there is a lot of money that can be harnessed for regenerative agriculture from the ESG space, you know, like Citibank having like a $4 billion ESG fund, and things like that. So there's a lot of opportunity right now. And there's a lot of awareness on even food production and how it gets, you know, from the field to the table, from farm to table stuff. And so even, you know, your average person is starting to become more and more aware that, hey, the Earth has its own digestive system, and that's a soil and if you haven't, if you as a person want to have good digestive health, your soil has to have good digestive health, because that's where it all starts. So it's, it's kind of the awareness is is happening there right now. And that's why he was like, hey, you need to do this, you need to get started on this right now. So we're jumping in both feet and going for it. 16:21 Can you explain what ESG means to everybody listening? 16:23 Yeah, sure. ESG is, it's kind of this whole concept, and there's not a lot of definition around it to a lot of people, it means a lot of different things. To some people, it's a very negative thing. Because they see what China has done with the social governance portion of ESG. We so ESG stands for environmental, social governance. And the idea there is, you know, you just like you have a credit score, you have a social score. And when you do things, the government likes and considers positive, your social score goes up, if you do things that are negative, it goes down, and I'm not in favor of that so much. And I believe, you know, we're a country of freedom, and free enterprise, and people should be able to do largely what they want to do as long as they're not hurting people, or hurting someone else. And so that's where the negative component comes from. But we also know that there's been a lot of damage to the environment in some parts of our country, too, you know, whether it's, you know, the super, super sites that need cleaned up and all that kind of stuff. Or it's just the amount of soil you know, you think about, you know, just earlier this year, there was a windstorm through Illinois, blowing across the field that had just recently been heavily tilled, created a dust out on this interstate, had a 60 car pile up, and six people died. You know, well, that could have all been prevented, if that farmer would, or whoever was doing tillage had been practicing regenerative agriculture, that would have never happened. And so, you know, there's some point it is causing problems. So what can we do to keep that number one, whoever tilled that soil invested heavily in that soil, and now it's gone, it's blown away, or washed away, or whatever the erosion factor is. So strictly from a financial financial perspective, as a CFO, I'm like, why wouldn't I want to keep my investment on that land that that soil that blew away was the prime soil of that land, the rocks didn't blow away. So it's the prime component of that land that blew away or washed away, or whatever the erosion event was. So. And just as a side note, we've done this, we've actually went and tested the soil in the ditches alongside the road, it's some of the best soil because it's never been tilled, it's always been covered. All the grasses they're collecting, everything is blown off the field next to it. So we jokingly tell a guy that if you want to improve your soil, plant a cover crop and catch your neighbor's soil when it blows away. So it's these kinds of things that are causing damage or causing pain to other people that, you know, we need to look at as as agricultural people, we need to look and say, What is my impact on this? How much of my fertilizer is ending up in the streams and in the Mississippi River that I paid for? Why wouldn't I want to keep that on my farm? So, so let's, let's look at the positive aspects of ESG. And we don't have to go down the roads of all the negative stuff with ESG I'm not in favor of that. But there are things that are hurting other people in impacting the environment that we do need to take a look at. 19:28 So I'm familiar with a little bit of this because I have inlaw, who drives a water truck so he keeps the soil wet so it doesn't kick up in the in the dust storm. Yep. And California and I live in California has a lot of regulation for that because they have a lot of desert areas. Yeah, dust storm can be a huge problem. Especially when there's construction. Yeah. So is that is that they keep it wet? Not necessarily saturated, but just wet. Keep it down. Well, 19:57 that's a short term thing. I mean in Cal Fornia, where you have a lot of hot dry air and a hot, dry win, that's kind of a very short term solution. Because you're evaporation rates are so high, you can, you can be an area where you get a lot of rain, but you have a lot of high evaporation, it dries out very quickly, or it can be an area where it's very humid and you know more of a tropical environment, and you'll grow all kinds of things, and it's never going to blow away, because it's heavily covered. So, but yeah, California. And even like where I live on the front range here is you know, it can be very hot and can be very dry, and your evaporation areas go up. But if soil that is covered, Well, number one, it will not blow away as quickly. Number two, your evaporation rates out of your soil go down. Now, eventually, you know, if you're in a drought period where it can be no rain for, you know, nine months or whatever, it's pretty hard environment to keep soil covered like that. That's a that's just difficult. But over time, and there's even some preliminary studies coming out where, where there's large areas of the country that have switched to regenerative agriculture, the weather patterns have actually changed over those areas. Because the air is not as hot and dry, not drying out the air, which prevents rainfall. So it tends to be a little bit cooler, which can more condensation more. Plant exudates at night creates more moisture. And so I think even in Montana, I just heard a statistic recently, and I don't know where this came from. But the average rainfall Montana has gone up an inch, I think over the last 50 years. So the more we start to practice these things, I think we're going to start seeing bigger and bigger impacts. We know that heavy tillage releases co2 out of soil, we know that soil that is bare heats up faster, therefore creates hotter air, therefore it dries the air out your relative humidity drops when your ears hotter. And so therefore the chances are rainfall are less because drier air is not going to produce rainfall as quickly. So make sense. 22:02 You teach me so much right now. And this is like I feel I knew like a little bit about these things. But like I feel like are coming together right now. So I'm like, Yes, it's very interesting to me. So I think the minor effects, but it's the such landmass is so heavily farmed than minor touches affect the greater things. 22:25 And it's a transition period, like you're not going to take California and turn it green overnight. It's not going to happen. It has an environment where it's very hot and very dry. And so those arid places can transition over time. And we've seen the work that Allan Savory has done from the Savory Institute in Africa, where he's taking desert, reclaiming it and making it actual farm ground. I mean, he's using animals to do it animals are a huge component and animals get livestock gets a bad rap. You know, it's contributing to co2 and global warming? Well, not really, because the animals have been around for as long as the Earth has been around. Yep. And they have and the animals have, and the earth have been in a very good cycle. What hasn't been around is heavy tillage. That's a fairly recent thing, you know, with the invention of the moldboard plow. That's when heavy tillage really started. And that's why we had the dust storms of the 30s. Because people came into this great weak country where the organic matter was very high, rip it all up. And it blew all away causing all kinds of diseases that went with it. And it's because of heavy tillage and the heavy release of co2, that I think we're seeing some of the effects that we've seen today. So getting back to those principles of working in harmony with nature and not against nature, is what's going to bring the balance back that's needed, I believe. 23:49 So one thing I really love about this is you're providing education to which is why we're here. So education gets in the space, it prevents it helps the bottom line, but it also helps the environment. It also helps the people from doing stuff like that where they're operating more effectively and efficiently and safer. 24:06 Yeah, no, it's funny, you know, and in the wintertime here, Montana, we get snow. And what sometimes we'll get in wind events and we'll see you'll see this term called snark, which is dirt and snow mixed in the roadside ditches, okay, these some of these guys will tell the soil right before in late fall, it lays bare all winter, and then all the soil blows off with the snow into the ditch. You know, it's things like that. So, you know, watch out for dirty snow. That's when erosion you can see where the erosion is actually happening. 24:37 Ah, that's crazy. So, let's start with something a little bit back into the fund area. So your fund is looking to acquire. This is the other part I love about this. You have a good mission. And I think there's a huge need for it because the farmers are aging out and retiring, passing away and all that there's a huge transition point so your fund is looking to acquire more farmland to regenerate it and make it make it healthy again. 25:03 Yeah. So basically, the whole point we want to do with the fun is, over the last 10 years, we're working with farmers, you know, a lot of farmers saying, I can't make that transition, I can't afford the three years I can't do it. Or I'm too old to make that transition, or I don't have anybody to take over the farm to manage it after. So why would I make the transition? And so that's a very real problem. I you know, if we believe in free enterprise and profitability, then there needs to be a solution to this that works with the free enterprise system, we can't just, you know, legislate and say, Hey, you're going to farm regenerative now from now on, and let the farmer suffer the consequences. So taking, you know, looking at what Bill Gates and Warren Buffett have done in investing in farmland and saying, oh, Gates is the largest landholder right now, why isn't he practicing regenerative agriculture? And he's not. And he's gotten some flack for that. So why don't we so that farmer that wants to retire or get out of farming or doesn't want to do it anymore, let's buy his farm, maybe we'll pay him to manage it for us, or we'll put a room manager on it. Let's get through the transition period, you know, on average, we, you know, to get back to full production capability with double the profitability, it takes seven years to make that transition, the first three are the most difficult. So let's put, let's finance that operation. And let's transition that farm. And then we can sell it off. Or maybe even our own management says, hey, you know what, I can make a living, I'll take over this farm, and we'll you know, we'll you know, set up a deal where he buys it from us, or the third thing, you know, we can sell it to neighboring farmer, because we also know that farmland has gone up in value in the recent years, and over the last 50 years, farmland has been was never gone down in value. So it's a very good investment play a very safe investment play. But the opportunity that I think the big guys are seeing is that farmland is getting to a crunch point where it's going to take off, it's going to skyrocket. And commodities and farmland in general, are one of the few areas where there's never been not been much of a bubble when it you know, like there has been in the stock market or anything else. So there's multiple factors that are coming together to give us this opportunity, I believe, the Create so on average farmland went up in value 14% In the last year, and in some areas went up as high as 25%. Well, if you add tack on land that's been regenerated, it actually brings a premium in on top of that yet. So we get you know, it's kind of it's a little bit like the multifamily space, it's a real estate opportunity with a cash flow business on it. And that's what and that's what we see in farmland. So us Devon fund is there to make that seven year transition to a much more profitable farming operation, that then can be taken over by somebody else that wants to continue managing it. Or we've partnered with some with another company called outside Incorporated, where they're selling digital assets, land backed digital assets. So they're interested in potentially buying this farm operation and real estate, selling off digital assets for it, and they will manage it for their asset holders going forward. So it gets to stay in that regenerative ag space. 28:17 That's amazing. Man, that's, I always tell our private capital, because this is where like, there's a lot of capital people that don't they understand like multifamily, because as NOI and cap rate all this stuff, and then they get to land like it doesn't cash flow, I don't want to invest something that doesn't cash flow. And then I'm like, the smartest people own a lot of land because it appreciates, it doesn't go down in value, it really doesn't. So like, are you buying 100,000 on a piece of land, it's going to be worth more in the future, like, not speculation, it's going to be worth more just by holding on to it. You might not get any cash flow in it day one, but you'll get appreciation, and you don't management, and they'll no toilets, no tenants like that. And then you can do something like that, when you lease it to a farmer, you can lease it to whatever and still create cash flow from even just holding on to it. 29:08 And that's what we want to do we want to even take it further than just leasing it. I mean, we might lease it, depending on what I'm saying. 29:13 You don't want to manage it. Yeah. But yeah, farming itself and you're running a farm business, you can still put a business on it. And you're the business you're the operator. Yeah, absolutely. Because then you get both you get both sides of it. Whereas other people they can most people that they want one say they want the ownership without the management so they can lease and give up the opportunity to still work the land but you can still benefit from ownership, whereas you I think you're doing both. 29:43 Yeah. And why look, and I've done a lot of work in the multifamily space. So 70% of multifamily are owned by investors. Farmland is only 13%. Wow. So most of all, you know 80 86% 87% farmland is owned by little mom and pop operations. And that's where the struggle has been. There's not been the investment dollars there to help it grow and help it to bring the value add to it as you were using a multifamily term to it like you had in the multifamily space. So I think we're at a unique opportunity where we can do that a time where we can do that and bring some investment. You know, there's been a lot of investment, agricultural technology and GMO technology for production, stuff like that. But there's never been the investment at the actual farm level or very little of it has been at the actual farm level. So 30:37 100% Yeah, it's hard. It's hard out there for the land people. And it's a very cash heavy business. So people that are operating in that space are very cash heavy, because they have to be because the banks aren't lending on it. And it's just, it's just very, you have to come in there with capital, there's buyers have to come in that space with capital. It's crazy. What is a quote that is yours or somebody else's that you resonate with? 31:02 Well, well, there's an old quote that we used to talk about back in the day, never farm naked. 31:10 Or the back story, 31:12 basically, you know, you've seen all these terms like that, right. But the idea is, keep your soil covered, you know, keep your soil farm in a way that your soil is always covered. Not that you as a farmer farming naked, but never farmed naked, that was the term that we used to throw. 31:30 Like, Oh, I feel like all the farmers are gonna laugh at that joke. Yeah, they probably over my head. 31:36 It's okay. So that was that's one of them. Another one that we used to say a soil was always meant to be covered. So wherever you have bare soil, Mother Nature will work hard to cover that soil as quickly as possible. And she'll cover it with whatever plant will thrive in that environment. Yeah, so I had the privilege. And maybe this is a story I should say for later too. But working with a guy in Colorado on certain soil types, and certain plants were growing there. And he figured out and then with the help of a book, and I can't remember the title the book right now as you can look at what's deficient, or what's in excess in your soil by what's growing there, based on the plants that are there. So, and, yeah, there's a whole science behind that as well that you can determine what your soul needs by what, what, by what weeds are growing there. But the fact is, Mother Nature will cover that soil as quickly as possible. 32:31 Just doing Mother Nature does. 32:32 Yeah. So, again, regenerative agriculture is the whole idea of working in harmony with Mother Nature, not against her not fighting her every step of the way. 32:42 Wow. That's true. You go to the barren places, and there's still something growing. Oh, yeah. 32:49 I was recently in Dubai. And you know, it's all desert over there. You think nothing grows there. But there's all kinds of scrub plants grown over there. You know, in this in this area that gets very little rainfall. There's still something growing there. 33:03 I haven't I do have a Dubai question. Now you run it through by wrote an article about Dubai, using American farmland to grow alfalfa because it's very water. Water, it needs a lot of water to grow. And out there it goes for a lot. And out here. They have the water resources. So I heard it's a big controversy in the pharma space. We're outside outside outside of the country investors are using American land to take its nutrients. 33:34 That that is the thing that I think in the story you're talking about is actually a Saudi Arabia investment company that invested is either in Arizona or Nevada, and I don't remember where it was. It was Arizona. It was Arizona. That's right. And yeah, they were doing that. But being in Dubai and, and having a Cummington awareness of what they're up against. So traditionally, the UAE has imported all of their food, they basically grew none of their food. And when COVID hit that became a huge problem. I mean, their grocery store shelves went bare, because, you know, they couldn't import the, you know, things were locked down and all that kind of stuff. And so the UAE governments have said, Look, we are have we're going to make a Food Initiative, a huge priority. And so there they will look at any kind of agricultural technology, any kind of farming mechanism, anything to become more self sufficient on the foods side of things. So for instance, Emirates Airlines has one of the largest greenhouses over there, and they are growing their own vegetables for their catering service for their airline. Yep. So they're doing you know, they're doing things like that. They have farm over there. They've got irrigation. research farms, like running center pivots and irrigating things. They're trying all kinds of things. And one of the things they want, if they want us people to come over there and say hey, how How can we, how can you teach us how to farm in this environment? can we reclaim our desert like they are in Africa? You know what, what's available to us? And it's, and it's a challenge they put to me when I was there. There's like, would you bring regenerative agriculture to the UAE? Well, I don't even have the experience at that level. I don't have any experience at what Allan Savory is doing in Africa. That's a huge, I mean, that's one of the the most harsh environments to transition. But the other side of the coin is, I guess, if you can make it work there, you can make it work anywhere. So 35:31 wow. That's Wow. Wow, that's crazy. So I heard about, like big businesses like that the airlines, I watched a video about delta, how they have like three commercial kitchens that all the food for that day that gets pretty much served in the United States. And I was like, This is insane. Like you realize the operation, but have Emirates has their own greenhouse where they're growing. And that makes sense. I mean, the cost of goods is gotta be insane. And you need it now. So if you grow your own crop and support your own supply supply chain, 36:08 yeah. And they're looking at more than just farming, too. They're looking at, you know, vertical farming, indoor farming, you know, they're looking at everything over there, like anything related to agriculture. They're looking at 36:18 it. So that's, that's interesting. I really got I'm really excited about buying in the Middle East, because that's, I guess I knew my I think it's my skill set. As I know a lot about a little I know a little bit about a lot of things. Yeah. I guess it's worked really well for podcasting. Yeah, no, that's good. No, no, it's I guess it's really helped there. But that's that's such a crazy insight. And I'm, it's really interesting that they actually over there to Dubai, to see if you can do regenerative party over there. And so shows the need of it nationwide and globally. 36:51 Yeah, there's a global need. I mean, you know, Singapore's another country that relies mostly on imports that suffered through the lockdown. COVID. So now, even though they're looking at agriculture, what can they do and they're, they're limiting factor, there's the Met the land space, they don't have the acreage so they're much more interested in vertical farming, indoor farming, rooftop farming, all that kind of stuff, a ways that they can take as much space as possible, and convert it into food production. And so there's Opportunities Worldwide, you know, talking to people from Africa and Middle East and Asia and all those kinds of things. There's, there's opportunity, the world round for agriculture. And I think it's a great time as an investor to become involved in these things. Because there's never been the facility or very few opportunities for investors to be involved in agriculture, like there is today. 37:44 Amazing, amazing. Where can people find you online? If they wanted to help contribute in some way? Or? 37:49 Yeah, you can find out of us I have, we have two websites, our fund or investment companies, big sky Capital Group. So we're at Big Sky capital group.com. So there, you can fill out a form and find out more from us and how you can become an investor. We are a 506 C fund, so you have to be accredited investor. minimum investment is $100,000. So we're starting there. But we also have a I have another company called a future generation AG, which has kind of been my soil health consulting company, and they can find us there at future Gen ag.com. So, 38:24 man, I really appreciate you come on coming on Wayne. I think I learned a lot. I hope our listeners learn a lot too. But I think I learned a little bit about farming where I didn't know too much about it. I'm gonna I'm in a different land space, I guess. Yeah. But 38:40 yeah, California is unique farming place too. I mean, there's been a lot of and probably most of the investment has been in California and the Pacific Northwest, especially in like your orchards and vegetable productions. But the middle part of the country is where we've not seen a lot of capital allocated to so we're hoping to change that. 38:58 That's amazing. It's amazing mission, an amazing goal. I appreciate you creating and wanting to create goodness and the United States in your own little way. And I support that and I'm here to help out on any way I can. 39:11 No, I appreciate you having me on Daniel. Thank you very much. It's been I learned 39:14 a lot today, man. For everybody here. Go like, subscribe, share with a friend you know to do. We'll see on the next episode. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks, Wayne. Thank you