0:00 This podcast. I'm your host, Mr. Daniel Martinez. Today we have special guests Mr. Casey miracle and our close our CO hosts, Anthony Gaona. Are you doing today, Casey? 0:10 Great. Thank you for having me. 0:12 Well, part of the country do you live in 0:13 Missouri flyover country? 0:17 Missouri. I was just in Missouri. Columbia last week. 0:23 Yeah. Well, did you like the University of Missouri? Is that what you want to see? 0:28 No, no, my, my wife has her best friend lives in Colombia. So we're visiting or visiting her in Colombia. Now, yeah, we were pretty much in Colombia for like three or four days. 0:41 Yeah, it's pretty up there. 0:44 So one of the first questions, I like asking just to kind of give you this basil, how long you've been in real estate? And how long have you been doing like, crazy creative real estate? Cuz I think it's a whole nother question. Because I think everybody like grows into that person eventually is like a turning point. And for me, I was like, three years in. And then I became like, the next level, which I think in my opinion, was there. But like, when do you start and then was like that that light bulb moment when you okay, this is crazy. 1:09 Yeah. Started, I don't know, 15 years ago, something like that. But it took me like, I was looking at real estate for about five years before that, I just couldn't figure out how to scrape up enough money and be courageous enough to make a deal. For your second question. When did I try to get creative with real estate boy. This first deals, I was just flipping houses off the courthouse steps, and then I went into like, non performing notes. So which is on its own is crazy enough. So I would say pretty soon after that, maybe a couple of years after that. Yeah, so and then it just, you know, kind of got out of control. 1:57 And I wanted to preface this conversation by saying that some of the stuff that we've seen you do, and some of the things we've seen you post, this is like this goes far beyond the reach of what normal, I guess what you would consider a normal real estate investor does. So I guess you're gonna share it with this, but I wanted to let the audience know that if they stick around for this one, this one's going to be, I think, pretty intense, based on what we've seen you post and talk about that, how does a person go from a brand new investor, you know, kind of not knowing where to go and ending up, you know, that far down, you know, in advance real estate technologies? 2:29 Well, like, you know, part of it is hard work and dedication, right. But then, like, I just, I just found good mentors, and I found some education that I thought was just kind of blew me away. And I kind of have an addictive personality. So when I find something that blows me away, I try to go deep down the rabbit hole and and figure out, you know, what makes it tick. And you know, how I could like improve after every deal, if that makes sense. 3:06 I love the analogy, because I do very much have an addictive personality, like I'm addicted to fitness, and I go down these rabbit holes, and I can't get out for years. And I think that's kind of where Daniel myself are with real estate right now is we absolutely love it. We're fascinated by it, we can't stop talking about it. So when we see somebody that's doing things that you're doing in your world, we're like, man, like, we kind of felt like we were already headed there. But we just didn't know how many levels there were to this whole thing. 3:30 Ya know, I was getting ready to work, and I'm working here. So one thing I want that I really wanted to ask you, and this is this is probably this is gonna be used for constant later on for yourself, probably. And I know you answered it in another video you did recently. But can you go over the basics of an option? And how to leverage an option to become wealthy? Whether it's Yeah, 3:59 no problem. So an option is just a contingent real estate contract, right? And so the only real difference between an option and like a purchase agreement, for instance, is that in a purchase agreement, typically you have earnest money when you're talking about real estate, as opposed to an option, you've got something called option consideration. And then that option consideration is non refundable, as opposed to earnest money, which is refundable. The other part of an option is its its unilateral instead of bilateral. So you've got the right to purchase a property or properties, but not the obligation, right. So you know, if I, if I came to you guys and said, Hey, I don't really like going to people and saying, hey, I want to buy an option from you, because that scares them and they don't understand what that is. So I say, hey, let's make an agreement. You know, we'll agree that I'll pay you You know, $300,000 for the further your property, but you know, I need nine months to do that, and or maybe nine years to do that, I don't know. And I'm gonna give you, you know, $50,000 right now. And if I don't come back, you know, keep the 50,000 sell the property again to somebody else. But if I do come back, you know, take that 50,000 off the 300. And when I, whenever I exercise the option, whether that's in nine months or nine years, whatever we agreed to, you know, I get to take that $50,000 off the purchase price, so it'd be 250. Back to me at that point. That makes sense. 5:44 So, what I like about this is, it really goes, we have a lot of stock friends that do options. So it's really long, it's using the same same practices, just with real estate versus stocks. Literally the same thing. But one thing I really want to ask you is like, what's the benefit? And upside to you do it? Why Why give him $50,000 Now, and not buy it outright? What's the what's the benefit? As far as doing the type of transaction or even option in general? 6:15 Yeah, there's could be a ton of benefits. But a lot of times it's a timing mechanism, you know, so let's say they want to sell right away, right? Or if they don't want to sell, right, like, let's say it's a house, right? their baby is five years old, they want them to go to school in this school district. Okay, so you're 13 years away from making that happen? Well, you say to them, Hey, let's lock in a price today, even if it's a little bit of a high price. So let's say $300,000 is a little over fair market value. Right? So you're locking in a price today, right, you're giving them some money, maybe it's 50,000, maybe it's 5000 Could, could be the one, right? And you're getting the benefit of growth and appreciation for down the road, especially if it's a long term option, right. So an options solve a lot of timing issues, they can solve, they can solve debt issues, you know, somebody's over leveraged, they need more money for a property, but they don't have any money and they're in debt up to their eyeballs, well, they can go find somebody to they could go find somebody and give them an option. In exchange for money, that money might be the money, they need to get them over the hump to, you know, fix up the property or pay their taxes or whatever, right. And then that gets the deal done, but there's no more debt on the property. So it's just options are just super high leverage, no debt, small risk, even though I said 50,000, like said, you could have got that option for 500. And you're risking very little, usually, you can get an option for, you know, five to 20% of the purchase price, sometimes less, sometimes more. 8:14 And I love this subject. Before I even knew what I was doing. I was using options on properties for us to get a good look at, you know, these large scale farm and ranch properties, and then see what we could do to monetize them. Right? Like, is this a development player? Is this a wholesale deal? But yeah, giving little to nothing upfront and then leveraging it, I can already tell I wish this This interview was four hours, but I feel like we're gonna go deep and it's gonna be over. Can you talk about how you how you leverage those? Like, can you give us a real world example that maybe with a larger scale property, maybe like a commercial property? How you could like leverage an option in your favor? And then do you have alternate exits, you're thinking about, like in terms of, if you have an option on the large scale, like let's say, a shopping center, and you're looking for an exit to maybe trade it into notes or into other asset classes like land? Do you keep the Are those all those on your radar while you're thinking about an exit for this property? 9:07 Yeah, I'm thinking about an exit. I'm thinking about probably five exits before I enter. So like, I don't want to unless I've got a bunch of exits, right? I want, you know, I'm like an assassin in a room. I want to know where all the doors are to get out, you know. So, yes. So how am I leveraging one so I'm working on one right now. Property is agricultural property on the periphery of a major metro. We're getting an option essentially to rezone right, and so to industrial right, and so, that land is already adjacent to some other industrial so we think that that's a nice play right there. We need the seller to give us time to go work out entitlements and permits and such. Right. And so in that case, you know, we said, hey, we'll you know, we'll buy the property. You know, we'll buy the property, we want to buy the property outright. He said, No. And then we said, hey, well, why don't you know, why don't we agree to a little bit higher price, and it was I think we owe 500,000, more than asking. And he agreed to that with an option to buy, but we gotta we got a long, slow burn to get our entitlements in order. And it's a foreign order than that property is probably worth, you know, three to 4x. So amazing. But I didn't have to go get debt. Right. I didn't have to go. I didn't have to spend every cent I had I didn't have to go get LPs. Right. Like, that's a lot of benefit right there. 11:00 Okay, I gotcha. So yeah, it's easy. The it's like extras. I like that example. Because it gives you the ability to do the entitlements. And that's what takes the longest part. And usually we're trying to under contract, but if you give them the option, it's more of, hey, I'll give you some money up front. And we I think we kind of do the same thing, just with like the earnest money. Hey, we'll sign over the earnest money right now. Just give us that that due diligence period, but you're using an option? And you're on the way? Yeah, 11:27 yeah. Well, I also like it, because I can record the option, right? So and, you know, for you guys, maybe you'd like, if it's a land play, I might say to them, Hey, why don't you just let me lease the land. Cuz you can combine a lease with an option pretty easily. Instead of saying, hey, we'll buy it, I would start with saying, hey, the only way this works is, we can lease it for a little while to figure out what we're going to do with it. Because that'll cost you very little money. And then, but hey, we'll agree on a price today, you know, you tell us a price. And then you know, don't argue about the price. Usually, if you can get a long term option, especially don't argue about the price, because the price is less important than then basically the monthly payments that you pay. Because you'll want a big spread in your cash flow. And as long as you're getting a big spread, you can hold that thing forever. So 12:22 I have a deal want you to look at, we're looking at a 300 acre hay farm, close by San Antonio, in a really pretty hot area, the guy wants 15 million, I felt like he's pretty close to retail. But he's pretty motivated, he keeps calling us so I'm imagining could put some creative together on that deal. But that might be a situation where there's some cash flow involved. And also, that the seller is willing to finance it, maybe some of the cash flow from the property could help us offset the payment. So what maybe could take a look at that one for us. 12:48 Yeah. Yeah. Well, if if 15 million is close to fair market value, then you could you could probably say to him, Hey, let me I'll lease it from you for a year or maybe it's two years, right? You know, some kind of low payments. But we've got to get, you know, XYZ, we've got to get it chopped up, or we've got to get it entitled, or we've got whatever it is, I don't you know, I don't know exactly what the specifics are. But I mean, that's, that's a nice play for that. And you could agree to like, most sellers just are looking for their high price, if you can come in pay their high price, you've got to figure out the math on if it will actually work because not like some prices are so high, it makes no sense, right? But then, you know, prices that are at fair market value, if you can do it, essentially on time. Usually, you can make it work out if you've if you get away to do that. So 13:50 so this is one of the good tweets. I always like, we have our own students that we teach, we teach a seminar series concrete, there's always shared negotiations here three giveaway the little stuff, which is the price and to get the bid stuffers to the financing. I love it, because it kind of simplifies the a lot of sellers that want the price, they want their price on their price, and you're on the opposite, like given their price, who cares? As long as we get the financing doesn't really matter, within reason. Within reason, I think the biggest caveat is within reason, given the price. 14:21 Well, I've had a lot of sellers get upset with me over the years about a price that was less than that they've asked right, but I've not once had a seller get mad at me for giving them the price that they asked for. In fact, I've even given them more sometimes. Yeah, I've never got kicked out of anywhere for giving them their asking price or higher. But I got kicked out in many places for not 14:51 and I love that philosophy and I think we see that in your tweets and in your interactions like we kind of almost know who you are even though you know we have very limited interaction so far, but Daniel, myself would carry the same philosophy, and we would teach that to our students is like, why we don't like to negotiate on price. Like, let's try to make the deal work based around the guy's number, and then see if we can build a deal around it. And hearing you say that it makes perfect sense. Maybe that's why we're so fascinated by your style. 15:18 Well, the other thing is, say there's something else in the deal that you want, you know, they're say there's an obstacle that you guys can't get over. Right? Going back to them, if you think it's a fair price up front, and you agree to their asking price, what's stopping you from throwing out a little bit more money to overcome that objection? And getting them to say yes, because a lot of times you can do that, you know, maybe it's adding 20 grand or 100 grand or a million dollars more to a deal. But if it's worth more than that to you to change some term in that contract, then probably should do it. So it's not that hard. Like, just like, I've got this Greek gland. Like if you say, Oh, you want to give me $100,000 more to change this thing? That's really inconsequential to me. Okay. Yeah, I'll do that. So 16:20 I, I've been, I've been telling our students this like, like, sometimes it makes make sense. And that really depends on, you always have to know what the real cash value of that property is, when you're making that offer to make sure you're within reason. Because you don't want to go the opposite way. Where you're you're painting overpaying for a property at 30 overpriced significantly. And it's always gonna figure out well, what is what is it? What is the cash value of it today, right now? And is it within reason to overpay this much. And if you got longer that maybe you might be right, within reason, overpaid to 30,000 $100,000. And you can really negotiate that. And it might make even more sense to get longer debt, just by overpaying the extra 100 200 grand or half a million, whatever it looks like? 17:01 Well, it's, there's something called a time value money calculator, and you can very easily google it put in, you know, basically four terms for different terms, you know, the length of time the amount, you know, the the interest rate, and the amortization schedule, and it can very easily tell you how much that, you know, by giving them $100,000, more What's $100,000, you know, in 10 years at 5%, it's not much, that's what it is. So, you can tailor your offer, I would say, you know, the next level of that is get in the time value money calculator and figure out before you make an offer, figure out what that is, because you'll be able to make just a shrewd seller, a shrewd deal by adding more money and negotiating those, those other terms. So 18:04 I think one of the funniest part about this is like, yeah, when I was when I was no had no money, I couldn't get into real estate. And I think now you're doing the same thing. The far you struggled in the beginning, you're not doing that creatively. With every transaction, whether you have money or not. You're just trying to kind of get the no money deal. 18:22 Turn that eight, sideways. You know what 18:27 that is? Can you explain what a debt eight is? or lazy? Eight? 18:32 Yeah, well, it's infinity, it's infinity. So if you've got no money in a deal, you're making an infinite return. So just turn the eight sideways, and the eight is an infinity sign. And then if you've got no money in the deal, you know, once you get your money out, you've got no money in the deal at all. Or maybe you didn't put in any in the first place. And then, you know, if you're, if you're, if you're making a return and you have no money in it, that's that's pretty good. 19:01 Yeah, well, we always talk about that as theirs if you're like, oh, I need I need a 4% return in stocks. I'm like, Okay, good job. And I guess I want to I want to cover this next one on here too, because this this one's this one's a little bit more. Since this is a good one, I've never seen anything like this. But I know the analogy of it, but I want to get to your explanation. I think he tweeted this today that this is where like most people will they always see the the profits. And that's all there is in the property. But there's always all these other things tax, tax benefits use amortization, security, growth income. One of the things I like about it was the tax benefits. It's like really hidden in there and not a lot of people think about that. But the tax benefits that you can give sellers just by negotiating that into the deal, and not everybody wants cash. 19:56 Yeah, no. So It took me a long time to figure that out, right? So those are kind of the benefits of owning property right there that you showed, right? And so whether you're, you're on the buy side or the sell side, or even if you're on the partnership side, excuse me, what you're trying to do, what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to figure out what the most important thing is to the other side of the table. And that might be a seller, that might be an investor. Right? And so typically, what I say to them is, you know, you pick, you know, it's like, when you're in PE in school, and you are the captain, right? Like, you pick the best one, the the best person at whatever we're playing, you pick first, that's fine. And I might even let them pick second. But then I want the that other stuff, right? So like, you know, pick one or two of those, I'll take the other things, and we'll figure out how to work out a deal. So you know, it doesn't always have to be adversarial. You know, it can be cooperative. So 21:06 how do you what, how do you frame that conversation when you're talking to a seller? As far as the other advantages, because I think most sellers don't really think about, and this is we talked about sell time meet me and Anthony calls it hitting all the elevators on the elevator, hitting all the buttons in the elevator to see what is important to them. But how do you frame that in your conversation with the seller? Like, is it cash need is a down payment? Is it cash flow? Is it what what other? How do you frame that when you're when you're talking to sellers? 21:33 I usually just ask them, Is there anything you need other than cash? And what is it? You take anything other than cash? If they say yes, and sometimes it'll be yes. And specific. Like I had a lady an older couple back in the day that I bought a house off of that nobody else can. Like she she had this thing on the market for three years, because it was way overpriced. It's a great neighborhood. It's a great house. But at what mood because every time the market moved up, she moved up. Yep. Her price, right. And so you know, I asked her that question like, you know, other than cash, what do you want? Like, what, you know, what floats your boat? Is there anything you really want to do? What are you doing with this cache? There's, she's like, I'd really like to go to Hawaii. I said, well, listen, how about this? You know, let's do my price. We're not that far apart. But I'll send you first class to Hawaii. And I'll pay for your hotel. Now, what she doesn't know is my points paid for that. That vacation right? Price. You know, I had the points that wasn't that wasn't hard. So really, I mean, didn't cost me anything. 22:55 At first, she's like, I'm getting a vacation with the with the cash to 22:58 go first class. You know, I mean, I put her in a nice place. So you know, that's, that's what she needed to get her over the hump. 23:12 That's another story. Man. I love that story. 23:15 That's a good one things this is another tweak to that you have is a there's a million ways to make a deal. You shouldn't get disappointed when you only try one. I think that's the epitome of that conversation right there. That's such that's such a brilliant. I love that. It's so cool. To add that to as little as it says question. 23:34 Like, what's what's what I find ridiculous in in real estate is there is a culture of offer. counteroffer, offer counteroffer, especially through the brokerage community. Now, that's not their fault, because they've been lawyers to death. And that's all they know. And they've got to stay in their box. Right. But I was not made for a box. And so there's, there's, like, I don't really love, offer counteroffer. You know, tell me what you want, let's have a meeting, you know, like, bring your seller, let's chat. Because a lot of times I can make a deal. Like if, if somebody will talk with me, I can typically figure out how to make a deal with them. So but, but if I'm offering and counter offering or if I'm going through a broker, that's much more difficult unless the broker is really good, and some are and some can do it. But yeah, I like to direct better. 24:44 Okay, so I think we're in the same boat again, we love being direct to seller because then you have you know, there's no filter right when you're negotiating. So, can you give us some tips on chatting with an agent or a broker? Because we love what we actually love on market strategy. 25:00 Well, gosh, tips, I don't know if I'm going to tell you anything that's going to split the atom on this, because I'm still trying to figure out brokers myself, even though I've been at this for a long time. Right. So double ending is always good. Right? You know, closing quickly is always good giving a price that they that they want is always good, right? I try to be easy. I try to respond quickly. whenever I can. There are some times where due to you know, like zoning of like that property we're talking about before, like, the broker would have loved for me to be done with that a long time ago, but I'm not. I'm sorry. But I'm moving at the speed of government. So you know who you are broker? Yeah. So I don't know. Like, I don't have a great like, the answer I have for you, you've probably heard 20 times. Right. What I would say is like, if I need to incentivize a broker, I might give them a bigger commission. Right. But I feel like right now, in this current market, I don't feel like I have to do that. Because like I can, if the deal warrants that, and it makes sense. I would, but not a lot of things are selling right now. So brokers like me a lot more than than they did a year ago. 26:33 I love the leverage, but 26:36 not many other people are buying. 26:41 No, I think it's the perfect place for that or the space for that right now. Yeah, cuz it's like, that's why we're enjoying chopping off the MLS. Now. It's because we were going direct to seller for five years straight. And then now it's like, we can call 20 agents today. And they're all like hungry to make a deal. So we know we got an agent, when they're like, not negotiating on our behalf. But they're like, you know, what I would do, I would do this, and I was just kind of giving you all of the nuggets that you would need to put the deal together. And then those are the deals we've been going after. It's like if the agents on our side, but the agents stonewalls us, like we just want a full price offer. We don't want to do anything like okay, well, I'll follow up with you in six months when you still have the property. Well, 27:17 I feel like the move is, you know, offer to make the agents car payment, because they're gonna have trouble doing that for the, for the next little bit. We'll see if that's getting on that. 27:34 Yeah, cuz we always we can give the seller a crutch directly, but like, how can you compensate that agent earlier? Right? Send you a 27:40 car payment? What are you? You know, how much do you need to make that work every month right now? So, 27:51 agents give up the sauce many you make friends with the agent. And they're like, you know, I would I'm not telling you this because I can't tell you. But if I was you guys, you know, then they hit you with the sauce. We're like, Okay, we like this guy. Now. 28:03 One of the things, I don't know if I don't know if like, just tweet stuff like this, or do you actually tell us the sellers, but it's always it always makes me laugh because this tweet says, Tell the seller that you don't make their bad decisions. You didn't make their bad decisions, and you don't intend to pay for it? Well, 28:19 I mean, I've said that before. I don't know if you guys have ever been in a negotiation and like, you initially like agree on a price. And then then they keep hitting you with all this other stuff. Yeah. And, and, and they expect you to solve the world's problems, and, you know, contribute more money. And so I'll say that they aren't solving my problems. And they're not trying to. So like, Hey, man, life's rough. So too bad. Like, we agreed. It Quit hitting me for something else. 29:02 We had a we had a seller This is a side story for us, is we had a seller we agreed on price and everything. And then we mentioned taxes to him. And then he raised his price. 20 grand. Yeah. And then Anthony was like, well raise your price student grand you just try to make us pay your taxes 29:22 Well, I would if somebody did that to me, I'd say oh, we'll do that and we'll I'll get you to pay less taxes but you know, you're gonna you're financing it to do that. So it's fine with me. 29:35 So what this is where I think come back to this as you give them more money. No one's ever gonna say no, no to more money. So like, hey, if your taxes are the taxes are the issue. Let's give you more money at no interest. So you pay less than Texas. 29:50 Absolutely. Why not? There's a million ways to make a deal guys. There's a million ways to make a deal. 30:00 I'm sure you use that as part of your arsenal, like the tax strategy based on your diagram, are you? Are you at liberty to kind of share how you open up that conversation with the seller? Because that top secret? 30:09 Well, no. You're saying how do I how do I get them to finance? 30:15 Yeah, so you have a guy who says, Nah, man, I just want my 10 million, you know, I don't want to I don't want to finance anything. I'm good right now. How do you open up that tax conversation with them? You have a way to do that. 30:25 So is 10 million at a fair market value? 30:29 Yeah, let's say that's, that's close to retail, but it's still probably a little bit of a deal. It's like, it's a pretty good price. 30:34 I would probably say to them, Hey, man, let's you and me agree that if 10 million was the right price, it'd be sold already. And then I shut up and let them talk. And, and then I say, well, 10 million isn't the right number. And it's, oh, I had somebody want to buy it for 10 million, why isn't it sold them? And again, shut up, right? And then they're gonna come to the and then you know, then I go back with, Hey, I don't know if you've realized this, but, you know, interest rates have went from 3% to like, seven 8%. So, you know, you're, you've lost like, half the, you're losing, like half the value of your property right now. And every day, you go longer, and they raise rates, that means you're getting less. So it seems like you're taking a bigger risk than I am now. So I get them thinking about it. So you know, but, you know, if you wanted to, I could I could pay something close in between what you consider fair market value and what I did. But, you know, in order to do that, you're gonna have to take an income stream, but I don't know if you know, but most people really love like a triple net lease. You know what our triple net leases, you know, you don't you don't pay for anything on the property. You just sit back and collect the check. We'll send it to your mailbox or your bank. If you're too lazy to walk to your mailbox, I'll just send it right to your bank. How's that sound? There you go. We'll just agree on a price today. There you just got a lease option. 32:19 That's that's gold right there, man. I'm taking 32:23 finance deal, either one. 32:25 Lease Option or seller, finance. Anyone? Is Engel. Yeah. So is that as a lease option similar to a master lease, we can just sublet it out. 32:35 Yeah, so the only difference is you can have a master lease with an option to buy. But when you say master lease or sandwich lease, you're just saying they've got the ability to sublease. 32:47 So it you said there is in most cases, or in some cases an option to buy. So you have a master lease with an option to buy like first right of refusal? 32:55 Well, first right of refusal, so something a little bit different first right of refusal is essentially it's it's it's quasi option, right? So recording something like a first right of refusal would say, excuse me, it would say, you know, I have you got to, you know, Anthony, if you go to sell the property, you've got to come to me first. And if I match that offer, right, then I can buy it, essentially, that makes sense. But you can get really fancy with that, right? Like, you might say, I can match that offer less 10% or 20%. Because you were there first, and you gave them money for that first right of refusal. But you can also get if you want to get super fancy with it, you can say, I'll match the offer in price, but I'll give you a note. And then you're doing something because then like, one, if you if you gave them a note on their own property, that'd be great. Because you could you could dictate your terms. But two, you can go source notes off market, probably for for decent discounts. So let's say you built in that 10% They gave you that 10% discount because you gave them money. And then you did the note thing. And then you went and found a note that you could buy for 80 cents on the dollar, which is possible. Well, you just negotiated basically 30% off the price right there. Which is slowly 34:30 No, dude, that was a mic dropping moment right there. We should just end this whole interview right now. I never thought about that. And we're in the note game pretty heavy. 34:41 So this is this is why I like notes in general. Because if you negotiate with notes, you can you can you can find the killer discount, maybe if it isn't $1. You know, I mean, it's really depends on your negotiation skills. So if you can, if you can, if you have, this is where we like land You might be your basis might be 4050 cents on the dollar already. So if you're offering security 80% or 90% security ask for a discount. It's you ask, you're getting a killer deal. But just be giving them the basis they want. Yeah, 35:15 well, and then, you know, trading notes for property want to acquire is fun and fair game to because like you said your basis might be very low in that, you know, half, right. But often not oftentimes, but on occasion you can trade at par or at fair market value of that note. So instead of 50 cents on the dollar, 100 cents on the dollar, and just capture wild upside. So 35:50 that's where we're gonna need your help man, because like, I think we got to the point now where we can kind of print paper at will, but then finding those secondary exits for that paper is kind of where we're moving into now. 36:00 Well, yeah, use it as your down payment. Say, you know, I've got this paper secured by, you know, x, y, z. Fair market value on the property is, you know, $200,000 this is, you know, you picked it up for 100k. You've built in a nice discount, you don't hardly have to argue about a price you can still, you know, you can, you can still whittle them down if you want, but if they'll accept paper, then that probably means that you got a tremendous deal. 36:38 Oh, man, okay, maybe we need to incorporate this into our Castroville hate form. See what the guy wants? And then yeah, instead of hitting them with the whole all cash upfront, hit him with some some notes up front and then negotiate from there. That'll secure as monthly and he was not the pony. Hey, you could just sit on it sit on that paper for a little while. 37:01 Okay, so I got I got one more. So I have this. This tweet that says I got I got a debt quote last week. $3,000,000.05 years 30 year am non recourse 3% interest rate? Should I take it? One of the things I want to really talk about this one, because I knew you're being satirical in the post. But and I think a lot of people were worth it without you're joking. But it was it was half satire, half truth? 37:28 No, actually, I did. I did lie a little bit so that that 3% rate is a blended rate. It's actually four and a half accruing. And like, think maybe point five. amortizing so. You know, it's a balloon note for several years. And so for the time period that I'm paying, it's almost 0%. Right? And then I know what you did there, before portion of it is accruing at four and a half percent. Right. So it's a blended rate of about three. But it's that's a real legit deal. But, you know, there was a plenty of people that called BS on me on that. What they don't understand is like, they are not me, right? Yeah, I'm getting seller financing. The only way they know how to transact is with a bank, or traditional lender. So what I would say back to them is, is, it's very easy to be mean. I would invite you to be me, it's more fun. But if you if you do that, like you'll probably get a better deal than I wrote on that tweet. But the problem is, is you got to put in some time and effort to figure out how to do it and how to say it and how to negotiate it. So like, not the best deal I've ever gotten on seller financing. It's not even close, I can get a better deal. 39:13 Even the best deal and everybody's not believing it. That's what's so cool about this space. Yeah, some stuff. It's just crazy, man. I can't believe you know, some things that people agree to. 39:24 Well, what I was gonna say is that you reminded me of like, Kermit the Frog. It's not easy being green. 39:31 Well, I don't know. You can, like, if you get enough followers on Twitter, they they start to beat up on you and get back. And you know, like, I'm not trying to be egotistical. They're like, they're there's so many people that I've met through Twitter that are so talented, and they can do stuff that I can't do like there's no way I could do half this stuff that these just killer pros do, right? But if you're talking about getting financing, like I put me up against most people, so yeah, that's what I'd say. 40:14 So one of the things I really want, I really want for everybody listening in on this is that it does take information knowledge, you have to know what to offer, you have to know that you have to pay for it, you have to understand the basics. And I think the biggest thing that comes in all this is you have to have the competence to ask for that. A lot of people they get on the phone and then understand, and they start. They start like, they don't sound confident over the phone, and they don't know what they don't know what to ask for. So I think the basics is understanding what your understanding what you're doing first. And then being confident in your in your ask, and then three is the paperwork. 40:50 Yeah, so let's talk about that for a second. Right. So how am I asking? I'm saying, Hey, why would you sell a nice property like this? Right? I'm going to get an answer to that. Okay. And from there, I'm going to say, well, you know, are you going to 1031? Are you going to put this in the bank? Are you going to pay the tax? What's that look like? Right? And if they're gonna turn 31, they're probably not going to take seller financing. Right? Yeah. But if you're gonna put it in the bank or pay the tax, then I say back to them. Well, you know, what kind of interest rate? Are you making a bank? Say, three or 4%? Well, let's say they say 4%. Well, if I gave you 25% More, would you be interested in that? Yeah, okay. Well, I'll give you 5% on a property that you know, already, you know, so it's, it's not that hard. How would you like a triple net lease? Essentially? All agree to your price? Yeah, I just gotta make sure that I'm making enough money to to help my family, you know, so. If they, if all they care about is price, then sometimes you can make that deal. So 42:13 you go, you go, what is a quote that is yours or somebody else's that you resonate with? 42:24 I think I tweeted this the other day. You trust and all others must furnish collateral. What's the last thing you said? Jimmy Napier? That's from Jimmy. Okay. So invest in debt is a great, quick read. 42:45 I have it under my desk. I have to find it. 42:48 Invest in debt by Jimmy Napier. So that But Jimmy Napier is going? Yeah. So he said, he said that, and I love it. Because I get hit up for investment quite often. But everybody wants it insecure. And I don't blame him like, I would too. But most of the time, I like collateral unless I know you really well. That's that's usually my game. 43:14 So you say like one more time so I think if I'm hold up a little bit investment. Go ahead. What was the quote? 43:21 The quote is In God We Trust and all others must furnish collateral. 43:27 Okay, that's gonna be a video clip right there. Clearly because I was gonna give me um, any any final question, Anthony, I think this has been a this has been a good time. 43:42 No, man, I just want to say, Casey, we appreciate your time and sharing it with us. And then all the knowledge you're sharing on Twitter. Super, super amazing. We're glad to know you and to be working with you. And hopefully we can do a deal together soon. We had a one deal that we're working on right now at large ranch for three and a half million and Daniel's like, Hey, we should bring Casey in to help negotiate and I'm like, never thought of that. Like we're pretty good at negotiating. But we thought that that would be awesome. And to see you, you know, work with us on taking one of these down and we figured out how we can partner on it. 44:11 Sure. Well, my my biggest problem seems to be time these days. So I'm disappointed but yeah, it's a man I do like negotiating. It's it's fun, although I never win versus my wife. 44:30 You gotta know which which battles to pick and which ones to walk away from? 44:34 Yeah, well, she's a professional negotiator too. It's just I haven't reached that level yet. 44:39 That's amazing, man. I think I have that with my family. Like, some things has to be my way but everything else like where we go to eat, where we go for entertainment vacation, like you go wherever you guys want, but sometimes you gotta you gotta know when to hold the winner for them. 44:53 And though because they know you're the best, so it's always a losing battle. I don't want to win. I don't want to 45:07 win the argument lose a war 45:11 forever. You know, do go live, subscribe or share with a friend. Thank you Casey for coming on. We appreciate your time and all the knowledge you've given us and like I said, I hopefully will do a deal here sooner than later. And for everybody here go follow Casey Miracle on Twitter. That's where we follow him. That's we get the best socks you get a direct from the source. If you're not on Twitter, you're missing out. There's a lot of cool people on Twitter and you never know who you're gonna come across. But if everybody hear thanks for watching, thanks for tuning in. We'll see on the next episode. Have a good day, guys. We'll see you next time. 45:41 Thanks for having me guys. Appreciate you