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0:00 Hey 0:06 everyone, welcome to the only land fan show. My name is Kendall Legion and our guest tonight is Anthony Guyana. Anthony is a Marketing Pro turned a real estate investor he started his real estate investing career intending to flip houses. And as luck would have it, he got a lead on a 50 acre farm and made $85,000 on one of his very first deals. He created a mastermind called hive mind to teach others to teach others what type of land deals to target for great returns. Now he and his team members target land deals valued at $1 Million and above Anthony, we are so glad to have you. How are you my friend? 0:43 Hey, good, man. Yeah, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. 0:46 Absolutely. Are Now you are based in San Antonio. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah, you guys get a lot of ice there and stuff. 0:53 No, I said also, though, all the trees and grass was covered in ice. But the roads were crystal clear. So you know, we didn't we didn't have to get locked down. We were pretending we were locked down so we didn't have to go work. Nobody was stopping this. 1:06 Nice. Ice doesn't stop. No, it keeps keep you got to keep the grind going. Well, listen, I want to thank you so much for joining us tonight. Can you talk to us a little bit about how you got started in doing land deals. 1:18 Man, it's super funny. So I've been a general contractor all my life I went with to work with my dad's company when I was 12 years old. And I thought I was gonna be a famous boxer. And he's like, getting truck going to work. So I started in construction. I hated it, of course, as a kid, you know, but I did pretty pretty well for myself. And eventually I started doing commercial roofing. And I was doing big projects, you know, half a million dollar roof million dollar roof. returns are really good. So I came to the point to where I wanted to build a house for myself and my family. I got on YouTube and I Googled how do you buy land for cheap, right and I started learning about wholesaling. So I was like, dang, these guys are pretty much like getting land for free and most right so I put all my attention and time and energy into wholesaling. I started in just probably like January one of 18. And I started advertising for everything. So I started advertising for commercial houses, like just whatever I could find. I have a marketing background. So I think I threw like 25,000 at marketing like immediately ordered like 1100 bandit signs start doing pay per click, you know, Facebook, I pulled like half a million records and skipped it and did RVM like, I just went all out. So I can see like, how do we shake this tree? Like what makes the deal happen? And I gotta lead pretty quick. I think within 40 days, I got my first contract. It was on a house that it took several several months to actually move it I think I ended up making like $1,800 or something. But I think one of my earlier deals like second or third deal, I got that farm. It was a farm up by Grandview, Texas and Fort Worth. And I ended up making 85,000 on that one, you know, so that kind of made me feel like, I think I need to pay more attention to land, right, because I thought I was gonna flip houses and do remodels and use my construction background. I've flipped houses for other people for investors when I was just on the construction side. And I remember we did this house it was on Flamingo lane here in San Antonio in Alamo Heights north of Alamo Heights. And we knocked out the whole house inside outside gutted both bathrooms and everything we knocked it out like in 30 days flat. I mean a complete remodel inside and out kitchen and everything. So you had a flip, you know, I've been in it my whole life. So that's what I thought I was going to do. But yeah, I really got drawn to land because I was like dang, if you can make that kind of money and not remodel anything not do anything I intended to cut the grass. So I was looking for somebody to go out there and shred it because this thing this farm hadn't been cut in years, right, the grass is like six feet high or something. So I was looking for somebody to go out there and at least shred it and make it look good. So people can drive it and it's sold before I even did that. You know so I was like dang Holy crap, you know, at 5000 without doing any kind of remodel. Like I think I'm just gonna start looking more for land deals. So we kind of refocused and started specifically looking for land and the rest is history man. 4:00 Nice so when you first got started and you you pulled all of those leads you were you were just trying to look for houses lots whatever you could find is that right? And then anything 4:10 about targeting Yeah, just put everything I just bought records for anything and everything in the San Antonio area 4:19 and I love it. I love it. I love it and then stumbled across an $85,000 No rehab, nothing kind of deal I love that. So you mentioned that you that you went to YouTube when you first started you have a bit of background in construction and flipping that kind of thing. Were there any types of mentors or coaches that you went to to learn when you first got started in land? 4:41 So for land I had been watching like Ari tipster and probably Willie Goldberg, and some of those guys on YouTube, you know, just randomly like I was always a, like a education driven person. So I watched a lot of like health and fitness stuff and bodybuilding videos and even now like I'm a crackpot scientist like I got all kinds of crazy stuff. Uh I've always been down like the the learn from YouTube rabbit hole. So yeah, I just randomly had some like land investor videos burning in the background, but it's I don't even know if I was ever gonna pursue it. I was just interested in hearing different business models and that kind of stuff. But it never dawned on me that people were using marketing to to go after real estate. I never put two and two together. So I'm marketing for like roofing projects, roof leaks, bathroom remodels, construction type stuff. And I've been doing that type of marketing for almost 15 years, so I could generate plenty of business, I would sell the leads to friends subcontract stuff. So I was effectively wholesaling construction projects, right? No, I was doing wholesaling. I had no clue. But generating leads, and then moving them to a third party and then just taking the middle, right. Nice. So when I when I put two and two together finally, when it dawned on me that people were using marketing for real estate investing, I was like, man, you know what, forget construction, I'm out. I'm just gonna do this, you know, especially like if you can make those kinds of returns with no effort, because in my world, if I was doing a $500,000 roofing project, I mean, I might have been there for three or four months to walk away with 100 grand or two. Right? So once I saw that people were doing this in real estate is like, okay, 100 grand for just signing a handful of documents, and there's nothing else to do. Like, okay, I'm gonna pursue this. 6:11 Yeah, sign me up all day long. 6:15 That I would say two years later, I shut down my construction company that was doing really well to pursue real estate and land. Yeah, just made more sense. 6:23 Nice. Nice. I love that. So what types of deals do you specialize in? Is it wholesale? Is it cash? Is it large acreage, infill lots? What types of deals do you like to specialize in now? 6:34 Well, like everybody else, man, for starters, we were just doing anything and everything whenever we could get our hands on. But again, I remembered that if you go after bigger stuff, right, and then the deals are gonna be better. And it's funny too, because in the roofing world, when I was in construction, I have a bunch of friends that do residential roofing, and they're all successful me a lot of these guys are multimillionaires, right? Right. But every hit is like three grand five grand eight grand, I immediately bypassed all that when I went into roofing and I went straight to commercial, right? So I kind of recognized that coming into real estate is like, hey, just go after big stuff, and the returns will be a lot better. So I did happen to like, I did several small deals, but then I find kind of fine tuned, where we are now four years later, I would say about three years. And we started just going after big deals. And we made a minimum threshold of land deals that are at least a million dollars and up. 7:22 Guys, so a million dollars in value or a million dollars in profit, 7:25 million dollars in value, we shoot for no less than 100,000 profit. 7:29 Got it. Nice. So you mentioned big deals, and I completely understand that I completely get that. I mean, the fact is, like, you know, sometimes you make crumbs on deals. But but if you get a crumb from a huge deal, that's a pretty big crop sometimes. Right? And so what is the largest land deal that you've done to date? Do any stick out in your mind? 7:53 Um, so far? total profit on one deal? 400,000. Nice. I have another one. Right now, we already everything's on the books, everything's on paper. It's like 650. But it's in mortgages. Right? So we did a lot of seller finance on that one. So I might end up liquidating that, that whole entire portfolio. And again, I'll probably walk away with another like 404 25 or something. 8:16 Nice. Nice. So what, when you started doing land deals? Like what was the the biggest challenge that you have when you first started doing land? 8:28 I think it was consistency, man, it was being able to find enough deals to keep me in the game. So since I came in having a construction company, I had a secondary income, right? So I didn't feel the need or the urgency to go and type a bunch of deals because I'm like, if I do one or two deals a year, big deals, I was only doing like eight or 10 deals a year, I said, you know, so if I can make an extra 100 or 200 grand, doing a handful of deals, like I'm happy with that. But as I started to taper out of construction, I said, Man, you know, I'm gonna have to find a way to get either a ton of deals in the pipeline, or several large deals in the pipeline. So this one deal a month, one deal every two months wasn't going to hack it. So I think that was the biggest challenge is trying to fill up the pipeline, go after deals where if we did close one, then we're set for several months. 9:11 Nice, nice. So I know that you had mentioned that you'd already done you know, you'd already sort of figured out in in your construction background to go after the bigger deal. So it really wasn't a huge jump for you whenever you started doing land to go after the bigger deals, right? What would you say to someone who may be nervous or anxious about moving from doing these smaller info lots to bigger million dollar deals? 9:37 Um, I think that there's really no difference. You know, there's, there's no difference. It's not less work. It's not less stressful, all the front end work is exactly the same. You know, you're gonna pull a list, you're going to generate a lead, you're going to talk to a seller. So if you can work up the nerve, right to pick up an eight or a 10 or $15,000 deal. The process is no different if you're talking to somebody that has a 50 See million dollar deal? There's no difference at all right? It just I think it's a level of belief, right? So if you call, and you say, hey, well, I got $4,000 in the bank, if this guy says yes, I can easily wire him the 4000, next Tuesday, and we're all set. But since you lock up a deal, that's 4 million. And you know, you don't have access to 4 million not in your bank, or your networks bank, nobody's bank. There's some kind of like, automatic block that happens in a person's brain where they say, like, I'm just not going to call this guy because I don't have any way to pursue this deal. I think if you can dissolve that one layer, then everything else gets easy, right? Because we've got deals now, where we'll come into a $600,000 property a $2 million property with zero out of pocket. Right? But there's no way for you to identify that if you don't at least first have that conversation, right. So just, I think eliminating the the idea that there's numbers there, right, and sounds funny. But it's like, if you can work up the nerve to call a $10,000 land deal, then you can work up the nerve to call a $10 million dollar land deal. Because all the sellers are the same. They all have something going on in their life, there's always different challenges. If you think in your mind that only people that are super successful want to have a one credit on multimillion dollar deals, then you have a surprise coming, right? Because those sellers get themselves in financial trouble. They ruin their credit, you know, they have the same life situations that somebody that's trying to sell their mobile home would have, and they own a you know, a million dollar lot. So there's, there's no difference at all, if you can dissolve that one layer in your mind. And that's it. I mean, you're you're you're home free. 11:25 Nice. Yeah, that mindset piece is huge. And I love that I love the way that you frame that. If you can go after a $10,000 deal, you can go after a $2 million deal. The only difference is this mindset. So same, how do you go about raising money for large land deals. 11:41 And for the most part, it's been through our network, mostly through people that we know. So I think the idea of hive mind when we first started was like, of course, let's have a mastermind, let's teach people how to go after this exact same stuff that's hard to find. That would do two things for us, right, that wouldn't help us leverage our capital and our own time. So if I teach 100 people how to go out and find multimillion dollar land deals, then that's less time and less cash outlay that I would have up front. So that would bring us back to deals. So now in the similar way now that we're trying to make like raising capital, one of our primary resources, we're doing the exact same thing. So now we're teaching other people how to raise capital, go out, say this, do this, when you're in front of this crowd, ask these questions, let people know what you're doing. Let people know that we're getting substantial returns, right that door, other types of investments. And just once you let somebody know that if they if they're savvy, financially savvy, they'll be like, wait a minute, there's no way you could produce those kinds of returns? That sounds ridiculous. Get me on the phone with the guy. Right. And that's kind of always been our model for hivemind is like go out, spread the news, spread the gospel. And then once you hit a sticking point, bring them back to us and then let us close them like let us let us explain what we're doing. Let us show you some of the documents we have. And they'll be impressed. 12:52 Right on. So you know, when you are at, like, let's say, you know, someone's listening to this and and they are interested in raising capital and they want to, they want to get hooked up with you and that type of thing. If someone's at like a dinner party, and they know that they are with higher, you know, high income earners, and one of these high income earners says hey, what do you do for a living? What? What is your favorite answer to that to kind of get the wheels turning about like potentially investing, raising capital for deals? That kind of thing? 13:23 Is that for myself or for one of our like mentees or something 13:26 for both? What do you do? What do you say? What's your answer that question? And then what would some of your mentees need to say 13:35 that when somebody asks me, I just say that I flipped land, and that automatically, just like what you what, because they're like, I flipped real estate. They're like houses, no land. And I say it's and specifically, like, we look for properties that are valued at at least a million and up. And that kind of like stops the whole conversation, right? They're like, well, how does that work? Like what? You know, this first, like, first you're flipping land, so you already differentiate yourself, because you're not doing houses or apartments or anything else. And then we let them know that we're looking for just really, really big deals. And then that's kind of what they're, they're just like stopping and if they're very financially savvy, we'll say that we're just writing a bunch of mortgages at 10% interest is all we're doing. And now they're like, What again? So like, Okay, this guy is a bank, this guy is not a real estate investor. So again, it leads to another level of conversation. So yeah, so with that, you know, it's a never ending make it seem super boring. Like it's a never ending cycle of us always having to raise capital. But other than that, it's a fun game. And then if you're interested, if you have capital to invest, then here comes a 40 or 50 questions, and it's on. 14:31 I love it. I love it. Just enough to kind of get the ears perked up and want them asking you what do you do versus like you having to try to pitch yourself? I love that. That's very, very smart. Very cool. So 14:46 I'll just say you kind of push some people off too. So if you say, Hey, we flipped land flipping deals, and then if their brain goes, Did you see the game yesterday, then that's not your guy anyway. 14:55 Exactly. I love that. I love that. That's a great filter. That's a great out there for those kinds of conversations. So shifting gears a little bit, where do you see the market going now? And what do you plan to do to make sure that your business thrives in the upcoming market turn, 15:14 and you're gonna laugh at this. So there's two different dimensions, right that people are playing in right now. One is the one that you see in TV, and the one that 99.9% of real estate investors are playing in, where the rate that capital moves is dependent on like, what the feds do, or what the banks do, right? That has nothing to do with our world, because we're selling directly to end buyers. And a lot of these guys were doing seller to seller finance, these people have their large downpayment, they have their monthly payment, they're confident they can make the payment. So we're dealing specifically with a client that's not affected by this market. We're never going to a bank to ask for capital, most of our buyers aren't going to a bank to ask for capital. So we're planning in a space that it almost doesn't exist. It's like a fantasy land. Me and Daniel call it the land of the unicorns. Because it's all unicorns, right? Like, literally, like nobody's going to a bank. I don't know what the interest rates are right now. I don't care. I never checked them. I would say, you know, out of the subdivides that we've done so far. Yeah, I'll say that we have like two people that have gone to a bank. Right. So it's all direct to seller, man, it's just us versus the bank and them as the buyer. So there's no filter. So I don't know, again, going into this this recession. I don't even know if we're in a recession yet. But we haven't seen a slowdown. You know, I think we've got more contracts in the last 90 days. And we've probably got like in the last year. Nice on the buy side. Yeah. So we're moving right along hasn't slowed down at all. 16:39 That's incredible. So you mentioned in buyers, these types of buyers? And you mentioned subdivides. Are you? Are you doing subdivides? Are you doing like raw recreational property? Are you doing? You know, obviously, you know, probably if you're sticking at million dollar valuations, you're not really looking at infill lots. So what types of buyers are you finding are being most responsive? And what types of properties are they buying? 17:06 So we go after a rural unrestricted land, so outskirts, so we're like, you know, 5060 miles from the city and or less, right, where somebody can still commute into the city and back in the same day, and that's pretty much where that's the window that we play in. So if you can imagine like a doughnut, right, like, let's say, this is the city of San Antonio or Houston, we play out here in the outskirts, we don't even do anything in the city. So for like, my marketing campaign will just completely crop the city out. And now we're only working in the outskirts. So what happens is, the further you get away from the city, the cheaper things get, right. And you can go so far out of the city right now, like we have something under contract, that's like 330 acres, we have it under contract for like 1000 an acre. Right? So the further the further you go away, the cheaper things get. But if you're in the city, right, somebody today sent me a property that was like four acres, and the guy wants like 1.2 million. I'm like, Oh, my goodness, like what am I going to do with that? Right for 1.2 million, we can probably go out and buy 500 acres, you know, or 300 acres. Right. So we're doing ranchettes. We're doing like 10 to 2030 acre tracts. And our buyers are all just regular blue collar workers, man, they're just the average Joe, you know that that's a painter. You know, a rancher some guy just wants to throw some some goats and some chickens in a mobile home and go out there and shoot guns. And that's pretty much it, man. Yeah, I don't think we ever sell to anybody that's like, high, you know, high value trying to build skyscrapers or, you know, super savvy real estate investors. This is just all average Joe that has 20 or 40 or 50 grand to put down and those are buyers, man, all of them. 18:33 Nice. So you mentioned downpayment. So I'm assuming that a lot of these deals you're selling on terms, is that right? 18:40 Yeah, all of them. And we do no less than 10% down and we do 10% interest on everything. 18:46 Nice, very cool. Very cool. That's a pump that to like 20% 18:49 down and 12% interest if things keep going this good. 18:54 I imagine that definitely opens up your buyer pool quite a bit, you know. So that takes time 18:58 and things on? Yeah, anybody can be a buyer. So we used to sell everything on cash, right? But if you have to find somebody that can come in with 200 grand or 250 grand cash or pre approval from their bank, those are few and far between, like once you go beyond the 200,000 mark, and somebody got to get a loan for 250 303 50. You know, now you're shooting in the dark, but that same guy can buy a $350,000 ranch with $35,000 down. I mean, it's on. I mean, we just like I said that the sales are going nonstop right now. We're about to sign up another 700 acres and do the same thing. 19:29 That's fantastic. That's incredible. Wow. So do you. Do you only market and sell your own deals or do you also JV with other people? 19:38 So as far as the JV goes, a lot of people do bring us deals. So we'll we'll look at deals, we'll buy deals from people who will pay a hefty assignment fees. We don't even care what the assignment fee is, as long as we can make the number work. If somebody's going to like really JV with us, like bring a $6 million deal and want to partner the deal. They're probably gonna have to bring some capital with the deal. Yeah, if not, we'll just give them some kind of generous assignment fee either me He partially in the front end and some on the back end. But yeah, we JV with everybody. Man. 20:04 That's, that's great also opening up your your seller pool and getting more in that pipeline. So what would you say to someone who is newer to this industry and is looking to, to JV or wants to JV with you? What would you say to them about how to get started in doing that? What does that look like? 20:22 Man, it's super easy. So look, it's cool, because when you're in this, this is like a definitely a blue ocean strategy, right? There's no competition, what we're doing, which is kind of funny, because I would think that with the numbers that you can move that everybody's doing it, but it's just not reality. So the really the only way to the only two ways to approach this is to pull a list of like 50 acres and up right 30 to 50 minutes from a major city, like Texas is where all of our capital is. But it works in any city with a population of a million and above 30 to 50 minutes outside the city. You can pull a list text, all those people call those people, you know, send a piece of mail or a pigeon or whatever, and just get them on the phone, say, hey, you know, we're buyers, you know, do you want to work a deal with us, right? So you can either do that right the traditional way, the same way, you'd market to infill lots, or you could just go straight to the MLS is what we've been doing a lot more of lately. Go to MLS find stuff that's been listed for a year and a half, you know, two years a year, and same radius, right 30 To 50 minutes outside the city, call that agent and say, Hey, we can 100% close this deal. If you guys want cash, we're like at 50 to 60 cents of your asking price. If you can give us about two years to pay you off, then we'll give you pretty much closer to a full ask, you know which way do you guys want to pursue it? Some agents will say no, we're good, right? Knowing that they're not. And some agents are really burned out. So we coined a new term. We're not looking for motivated sellers in this field, we're looking for motivated agents. Because, yeah, sometimes the agent has had the property listed for a year, year and a half, and they're sick of it, and they're just ready to dump it. You know, and they're just like praying for somebody to come along and buy this thing. So I get my damn check, because I've already showed this thing 400 times, and I'm just over it. And so you call the agent and you say, Hey, I got a strategy where we can get rid of this property for you pretty quick, right? And usually, you'll pitch it to them. And they're like, but there are some times they're really on board. You know, they'll say, Hey, let me talk to my seller, I'll call you back. Right? Like, hold on, I think this sounds great. I think they're gonna actually do this. And that's it, man. So we've been now we've been looking at doing that more is approaching listed property. So it makes it even easier because now you're shooting fish in a barrel, you can see that there's distress, you can see that they've been trying to sell it for a year or two years. And then weeks or even expired listings even better if you have access to that. But yeah, that's really the only two ways man pull the list traditionally, or just go straight on market. And we've been having a lot of success with on market properties. 22:42 I love that agent idea for someone who's listening to this and and is a little bit familiar with how agents work. They might be thinking, well, what if an agent says, Well, no, I can't, you know, I don't want to sell it. I don't want to present this offer to my buyer at 50 to 60 cents on the dollar, because I'm gonna get screwed in commission, what would you say to them about that? 23:02 I would say that we always pay over 3%. Right. So even though the property is going cheaper, like we don't care if we'll give you a bonus, we'll give you something on the side, I'll meet up with you and hand you some $100 bills. I know that's a great red area, but man, whatever it takes to get the deal done. 23:16 Right. Right. Well, I really liked that idea of the motivated agent. I mean, especially, you know, we talked a little about the market earlier, the housing market is taking a bit of a hit. And so you know, agents have, you know, the majority of what they are have been doing is in their business is houses, then they're kind of hurting, they're looking for other ways to be making income. So that's a fantastic, fantastic tip. That's a great strategy. So what would you say if someone is brand new to the to the land space, and they're looking to, to sort of hone some skills, invest in skilling up? What would you say are some of the most important skills to have in the land industry? 24:02 Man, I think this game is a it's all just brawn man, no, no, no, no intelligence, just brute strength. You can, you can pick up the phone and get rejected, this is the best space to do it in, you know, because if you're gonna call a bunch of, you know, tracks that are again, like 10,000 square feet, 5000 square feet, and you're gonna get yelled at and hung up on. I don't think that really happens in our world, right? Because those kinds of people are getting hit all the time. And when you call on a track, that's $2 million. Guess what, that guy's phone's not getting blown up. He's not receiving daily phone calls or daily pieces of mail, because wholesalers are afraid of these deals. You know, most people don't even know how to move these tracks. That's why these tracks are sitting on market for a year, two years, because people don't know how to dispose of these kinds of properties. So I think if you can just work up the nerve to just make those phone calls. That's really all you have to do is just do the outreach. have those conversations, and you'll you'll be successful. It's a lot easier. Like I said, I don't even know that any of our people have got cussed out yet calling these big properties. 24:59 Nice. Yeah, it's definitely different type of seller for sure. Yeah. So what would you say? Like if you had to, I'm sure you get a lot of leads that come across your desk to quickly analyze and run comps. What's that process look like for you? Is there any specific software that you use? What does that process look like? 25:18 Man, I'll tell you what CompTIA has been the easiest thing to solve. And it's so easy that I think people struggle with with seeing that there's no way it could be that easy. So somebody sends me a deal. And it says it's 60 acres, and it's in Conroe, Texas, all I'll do is go to Google, and I'll type in land for sale. Conroe, Texas, one of the first things that'll pop up is realtor.com. Right? So if it's a good subdivide property, I'll go in there and I'll find out like, okay, we're probably going to do 20 acre tracts on this deal. So I'll go find all the 20 acre tracts that I can find that are listed right now. Right, so Zillow, realtor.com. And on realtor, you can see tracks that are for sale, and tracks that are pending. So I'll see hey, everything that's listed at 25 is not moving. Everything that's 20. And below is pending, right? So everything's moving at 20. So I know we got to get it somewhere right around maybe the 12 to 15. Mark, and then there's plenty of spread in here for us. So that's it, man. That's really all I've ever done for comps. I don't have MLS access, I don't even look at it. I don't ask for it. I just go right to Google, find out what's moving at what price and that's it. That's real time data right there. 26:20 Right? Keep it simple, super, super short and sweet. So you mentioned if it makes for a good subdivide deal, what in your opinion makes a good subdivide property? What do you look for to say that yeah, this would be a good time to buy property 26:33 for one little to no easements. So some properties have electrical easements, gas line easements, that kind of stuff. If so, if there's a little bit of that, that's okay. You want to have plenty of road frontage, like touching the property like paved road. So if you get like, let's say it's 100 acre tract, but on the paved road side up in the county road, you got a 300 or 200 foot narrow strip, there's really nothing you could do with that property, even if a developer bought it to throw houses on it. And you know, now he has to throw 4000 feet of utilities and road everything going to the back. But if the property is wider, it has like a lot of paved road touching the property, then that's a quick easy subdivide. So that's kind of what's what's the goal is for us, is how much paved road is in contact with this property. And we've come up with a route formula. That's that's really rough. And it's not like the rule of only rule of thumb. But it's like about 300 feet per 10 Acres is what makes a good subdivide. 27:21 Very good. Is there a quick way that you find information on easements whenever you just get a property without having to go pull title or anything like that, 27:31 man, so now you can, I mean, after looking at so many of them, you can just identify them. So you'll see this wooded lot and then there's just like straight line of clear trees all the way cutting through the property and the diagonal, right? Like, why is that property cut like that? That's a weird haircut. So that'll tell you that there's a gas line under there. Sometimes if you zoom in, you can see that that's like an electrical easement. So you're gonna have this tower on property with like, 20, electrical lines overhead. And then sometimes those have setbacks, right. So if you grab that, that gas line, or whatever's under there, you can't build within 30 or 40 feet of that line. So that's taking out a lot of acreage just by that easement being there. So unless it's like 1000 acre track, where you're always gonna have these big giant easements, you gotta be real careful if you're looking at a 10 or 20, or 30 acre tract. And, you know, you see those clear cut lines. So when somebody sent me over by Houston, they'd had like, a perfect X over the property, like one's going this way, and one's going that way. So like, Dude, I don't know what the heck we could do with this. 10% buildable, like, let's just dump this one and move on to something else. 28:28 Got it. Got it. So I really like what you just said, dump it and move on to something else. I think a lot of people spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to make a property fit to make it a good deal. So do you recommend if it looks like it's not going to be a straightforward deal? Just just move forward and try and find others that are because they're out there? What's your approach to that? 28:51 That's one of our 10 commandments in our group man is like, don't try to put lipstick on a pig. Like it's an ugly deal. Just move on. So I'll tell you right now, like, you know, I'm pretty new to real estate investing. I feel like I've done exceptionally well. Alright, just because of my background. But I'm still have that like that new kid phase where like, I can picture like, let's say a country singer or a rock singer, he gets real good locally, and he started blowing up nationally, and like, Oh, crap, just turn it into something. I'm kind of in that phase right now. Right? So when people talk to us and interview us, I felt like, you know, they think oh, man, this guy must be really smart. But I think you have to be less smart, but and more aggressive about making a lot of contacts. Because if you look at four pieces of property this week, or you talk to like, you know, five or six owners, right, you're gonna struggle for a long time, it might take you, you know, two years before you like, feel like you're getting some traction. But if you talk to 600 owners this week, you're gonna find one or two or three deals that are just Rockstar slam dunk out of this world, like once in a lifetime deals, just from combing through so many of them. So I think that's really what the secret is, like, look at a ton of deals, and you're gonna find like one or two of them is gonna make you like, man, people are gonna want to get you on an interview like Damn, what the hell did you just do like, I do nothing. I just looked at a bunch of deals and you know, a couple of them shaked out and it was freaking amazing. And there's really nothing you can do. Like I said, other than just going through a ton of deals the same thing, man, like, if you're looking for the perfect used car, or the perfect flip house, you know, perfect sub two, you just gotta go through a ton of deals. And eventually one or two is going to stick out and be an outlier, that that can really put you on the map and change your life. And in this in our business, and in our world, one deal can change your whole life, it can change your whole financial future. 30:25 Totally. So getting eyes on a lot of deals, takes a lot of volume for deals. How do you market? What's your favorite marketing? Do you text mail? Both cold call? What's your favorite type of marketing for deals? 30:40 Man, complete transparency. Right now our marketing is all but turned off right now. Right? So we're getting so much inflow just from our community. It's been a blessing. But I had a lot of success with pay per click. Yeah, yeah, pay per click marketing from Google, and Facebook, those have been probably our two biggest sources of leads. So we have done a lot of lists polling and texting, we've hired call centers, and that'll get you pretty far. But if you think about it dollar for dollar, if you pulled a list of a million records, and you skipped it, and then you text it all, and you took that same budget and put it into like Facebook, you know, you're probably going to get about the same return. And the only way to mess that up is if you go too narrow, right. So if you do pay per click for only the city of San Antonio, you're going to be in big trouble, because those leads are going to cost a lot. But if you can draw a polygon around Dallas and Fort Worth, Austin, Houston and grab that whole entire area, then your lead cost goes down, right. Or if you did the whole state of Texas plus the whole state of Florida plus net, North Carolina, and you're working three states at a time, that's when things get really juicy, because your your cost per lead goes way 31:44 down. Nice. So if someone's listening to this, and they're not familiar with pay per click as a marketing strategy, can you talk a little bit about that? What does it look like in general? 31:55 Yeah, so I mean, it's very simple. You can you can you grab an expert you grabbed if you can try to do it yourself, right, which I did in the beginning. And but I had had already done a lot of marketing previously. But you grab somebody that knows what they're doing, I would say probably this is probably not one spot where you'd want to set up yourself unless you're prepared to spend a decent amount of cash and time before it grows fruit. But it's it's hiring somebody hiring a third party that knows what they're doing, I'd prefer you get a recommendation. And it's where you pay a certain amount of money to get views on Facebook and on Google. So you have an ad that's floating around, somebody goes to Google, and they type in, like, who buys mobile homes in Dallas, and then your ad pops up at the very, very top of the search results. I mean, that's guaranteed business, you might only get one or two deals a month. You know, if you're spending three grand a month, but it's guaranteed business. Same thing for Facebook, you take that same three grand, you build a clean funnel on Facebook, you really filter out the buyer's or seller's cuz you're gonna get a lot of people there say, I'm just curious what you guys will offer me. So your funnel has to be very specific, it has to say like, are you ready to sell today? Would you get it? Would you? If we send you a contract today? Are you prepared to sign it? Do you know what your asking price is like. So if you narrow them down hard enough, you'll get good seller leads. And these are people that are ready to do business with you. So as when you're doing outbound marketing, where you send them a letter or a text message or a phone call, and they're like, dude, I'm at dinner, you know, don't ever call me again, I'm gonna find you and kill you and hang up on you. With pay per click, these are people that are reaching out to us saying, Hey, give me a price on my mobile home or give me a price on the house. And I'll sell it to you. So we've had a lot more success with inbound marketing than outbound marketing. 33:24 Wow, that's, that's fantastic. So when dealing with sellers, are you finding that it takes a little bit longer of a seller nurturing process and building relationship building rapport with sellers and doing these larger acreage deals? Or how do you how do you go about dealing with sellers? 33:44 You know, you're gonna get all all you know, the whole spectrum, right? So you always want to have a nurturing campaign. That's why we have a CRM, right? Hi, my, no matter who you talk to very spent the money to get them on the phone or on the other end of a letter or an email, you want to put them on a drip campaign indefinitely until they message you back and say, Don't ever contact me again. Right? So that's always going to be something so you want to build that friendship. I think in the initial phone call, it's probably more important on these deals. Because a lot of time again, the sellers, the sellers are not savvy, they're not motivated. So building that initial report and saying, Hey, we would love to do business with you, you know, we don't have to, we're not desperate, we know you're not either. But if you ever look at selling in the future, you know, we can definitely get this done for you. We can get it funded, we get this property moved. So for sure, building that initial report having an amazing follow up system, but then also on the opposite end of that spectrum. Again, if you've contacted 100 sellers tomorrow, you're probably gonna get somebody that says hey, I'd like to sell this thing you know before summer, right? And again, that's like, you're gonna find that as long as you go through volume no matter what. 34:47 Right very, very cool. So do you obviously you mentioned that you that you guys used to do cash deals and and now you are doing you know, you sell them on In terms and do you hold the notes? Or do you sell the notes? What's your, what's your exit strategy look like? 35:05 Man, we would like to get to the point that we're holding on to everything, right? But yeah, right now where we are, the amount of capital we have with the rate of speed that we're trying to go, we're not trying to hold on to anything, like I said, so I could sit on 700,000 worth of mortgages from one deal at 10% interest. And I could probably have a pretty decent life and not have to work too much anymore, right? I'm not going to be rich or famous, and nobody's gonna want to interview me. But at least all my expenses are covered for the year, and I can be at the gym five days a week with the family, right. But, you know, if I can just grab 400k or 425, right in like a 60 day window, and just flip it into three or four more deals, like we're just gonna, we're looking for speed right now. So yeah, we're not hanging on to too many notes at this point. But we have some institutional capital looking at us. So we do want to find long term capital, and start parking that into some of these notes, so we can hang on to them forever. So that way again, so now we're behaving like an institution and like a flipper. 36:01 Right? And so thinking about that, what, what types of things were you thinking, to sort of mitigate the risk of holding notes? You know, in terms of like, if people are like, Yeah, that sounds great. But what if people start defaulting and that type of thing? Well, 36:17 the thing about notes is there, there are people that will pick up non performing notes, right? This gives us an opportunity to do a Cash for Keys situation with a person we sold to. So they've already given us a substantial downpayment and several monthly payments. And now they say, Hey, I lost my job, I'm getting divorced, I'm not gonna be able to pay this anymore. We can say, hey, well, how about we give you five grand, and you give us that piece of property back, right, and now we resell the thing for full price. So very low risk situation. If anything, you're going to miss a few payments while you try to work something out with the, with the property owner now. 36:49 Got it. Got it. Like, it's all good, we'll hold those notes. Hold on. 36:56 By the time they default, a year or two from now, the property is worth, you know, 25 50% more, right? Or knowing what we know now, right? We can sell at any price. If you can do 10% down, you know, we've managed to sell stuff at 50% over retail 100% over retail, just because we're selling a 10% down. So you know, if somebody does have to give us a property back, like I don't wish that on anybody. But if they did, it's probably going to be in our financial benefit. I don't see us taking a hit on on somebody that stops paying. 37:23 That's incredible. So how do you go about finding buyers for your properties? 37:29 A lot of what we do is like texting and calling agents and brokers and then just listing like on Facebook, Facebook marketplace, posting in groups, that kind of stuff. Just pretty generic on that side. Again, because we're not having to go through like jump through any kind of major hoops just because we're looking for very low downpayment that average Joe has access to so our buyer pool is tremendous. 37:48 That's fantastic. Nice. Very good. So if you had to kind of give us a quick answer to this, what would be what do you consider your superpower? Like, what is your superpower? 38:06 I would say that it's just just pure brute force man. Like, I feel like I'm of average intelligence. I don't think I'm smarter than anybody. Right. So it's a lot of smart cats in real estate, and they're good at numbers and finances and spreadsheets and all that. I think my superpower is just being incredibly strong physically and mentally. You know, I work out five days a week, I go to CrossFit. I drink a lot of protein powder, you know, just like just like dumb jock strength. But I use that and I translate that into my business. And it's just that ability to just keep going and going when you hit rejection or you hit walls and I don't get down on myself, man. So like, let's say I just have the worst day ever, that it doesn't carry into the next day where I'm just like, down on my luck, man. Nothing's ever gonna go right. You know, I can't believe this happened to me. Like I'm just up the next day. Have another protein shake, go to the CrossFit drink a ton of water and I'm back at it again. And that's it, man. Just the ability to not take no for an answer to not not get knocked down and stay down. That's pretty much it. Yeah, I think you just have to have a really really thick skin. And I don't know, I guess you can train it right? If you're not born like that, I guess you can you can build that up in the gym and through practices like meditation, spirituality, physical fitness, but that's it, man. Just just having just the incredible strength just to keep going even when everything seems like it's against you. 39:20 Nice. So how do you like how do you feel your sort of entrepreneurial spirit? Are there like business owners that you like to listen to? Or entrepreneurs are? Like, who are you listening to on podcast or YouTube? Like who do you like, 39:40 Man, I'm kind of like I'm more of like a content maker than a consumer. Right? I like like your Tim Mize and your Cory Thompson's more than like like a Grant Cardone or Gary Vee. I feel like that's kind of just like cheesy rah, rah, pump you up stuff and they're doing the same thing we're doing. They're trying to give you enough information. And so you can bring them the leads, but I don't know that I have anybody you know, that I've really follow like, this is the guy that I'm going to be like, because it's like, I feel like we're carving out our own space and our own path. A lot of the podcasts that I'm listening to listening to these days are like, like anti aging stuff, health related bodybuilding, that kind of stuff. And that's, that's what keeps me motivated, because I'm like, if I can keep this show alive long enough, and something amazing is going to happen. More so than like, I want to build my agency like, you know, Tai Lopez or something, you know, this kind of, yeah, I don't know why I've just never been like a that Guru follower type of guy. 40:32 You get it, I get it. I always find that interesting to see just, you know, what types of things do people consume, because I think it it, it highlights a lot of things like particularly like when you're talking about like, I can tell that you're someone that really values your health, as you know, it's a form of wealth. And so that's always super interesting. 40:53 I'll tell you that I got to a point in my life where I was doing like a lot of fasting I've done to juice fast and water fast over 20 days, no food at all, right? Doing a lot of meditating, praying, like being alone, go to the beach by myself, like go hiking by myself, spending a lot of time like in solitude, just trying to, like grow my spiritual muscle. And I remember going into meetings with guys, like, when I really needed this job, I really needed this roof, you know, I really need these $200,000 and my life is gonna come apart, I'm sitting across from the decision maker, right. And he's like, the big heavyset guy that didn't take care of his body, like throughout his life. And I was thinking, like, no matter what this guy has, in his bank account, like he doesn't have what I have, he doesn't have the wealth that I contain inside of my body, you know, so I felt like he might have made some good financial decisions. But I've made better physical decisions. And so I've never had that in my mind is like, well, this guy's super wealthy. And I'm down here, because I don't have what he has. I felt like he's the guy that needs me in his life, he needs me to do this project for him so that I can teach him a little something about how to how to maintain his physical, right. And that's kind of like something that I've always carried with me is like, just felt like, there's different levels of value of financial reasons, only one of them. And if that's the only measuring stick that you're using, you know, then you can end up in a pretty poor place with a lot of cash in your account. You know, so I value friendships, relationships, you know that the relationship I have with my kids, my wife, my parents, I see them multiple times per week, we just went to lunch today. So those are some of the other measuring sticks that I think about, especially being in a sales situation where a guy has, you know, a $10 million piece of land or $20 million piece of land. It's not that I'm comparing myself saying, Hey, I'm better at this guy than anything. But it's just like, he has a certain type of wealth, and I'm holding a different type of wealth. So I never felt like anybody's above me. And I never felt like anybody's below me. Like, we're all just here. We're all existing, trying to do the exact same thing and take care of each other. Bless each other. So yeah, I don't feel like I don't feel like I have to, you know, be subservient to anybody, like, Hey, you have something that I want. I'm sure there's something I have that you want to so that's Yeah, makes me negotiation. 42:54 For sure. For sure. It's about to say like, the energy that you bring into a negotiation is not like this desperate needy, please help me kind of situation where it's like, you know, this is the only thing that I'm hinging my value and my worth on, like, you know, you've got other things, and it's balanced. So that's very, very cool. 43:11 Yeah, it's something that you can bring to the table, man. And I think it's like, I don't know, if you got to trick yourself right for a while until it becomes baked into who you are. But if I ended up not doing a deal with somebody, I feel really bad for them. I'm like, dang, they could have had the Anthony experience. Like, I could have freaking love that. I know, everything was gonna go amazing. They were gonna get the money they wanted in the perfect timeframe, I'm not gonna play any games like, this would have been so bad ask for them. And I let that person down like, dang, I wish they could have seen what I could have done for them. Like, I feel terrible for them. And like I said, at first, it's probably a mind game I played with myself, but now I really, truly believe it. 43:45 Right? Well, what a different energy. That is to, like I said, to having to just have to, like, heal to feel good, you know, like you're bringing value. And that's a completely different mind space and different mindset altogether. So that's very, very cool. So you started your land journey in 2018? What's the biggest sort of surprise that you've come across in your land journey so far? Like what surprised you the most 44:13 think the biggest surprise was that people are willing to give you like, give you control of a property that's worth several million dollars, with very little to no capital. If they buy into you, that's like that is your resource. Right? So we have a guy right now we're looking at some industrial land, they want like 3.2 million. They're about to like, assign it to us, essentially, the owner is about to give us full control of the property. Do whatever you want with it, just pay me when you're done. And I didn't know that the person would do that right. Again, because we're thinking in our mind, I'm gonna do a lot of 10,020 $1,000 flips, then I'm going to amass this millions of dollars, then I'm going to put it into these multimillion dollar properties and then scale. But the biggest surprise for me was Yeah, somebody will give you the keys to a million dollar ranch for like 5000 bucks and say, hey, just pay me whenever you sell it. Right or zero, right? If you have no cap Bro, if he if you do enough marketing to me, that was the game changers like, Okay, now I'm just gonna go after everything. I don't care what the price tag is we're trying to go out and look at a property. It's 5500 acres and the guy's like, okay, cool, yeah, I'll pick you guys up and I'll fly you out in the helicopter. Awesome. You can find yourself in these cool situations by biologists looking at bigger deals and going after bigger stuff. And there's no hurdle, there's no barrier to entry other than the one that you have between your ears. 45:27 That is incredibly, I mean, that must have been a major, like lightbulb moment when you realize, hey, there's really nothing to fear. Like there are people out there that are willing to do this. It's not like I'm trying to, like do a trick or like a loophole to get people to do something like there are people out there as long as you know, like you said, I think it goes back to that mindset of, I want to give them the Anthony experience, you know, that you want to do this for them adding value to them. So that's incredible. 45:54 Did it happen, it really is the mindset tip, you know, I wish I could tell you like it just spontaneously popped up inside of my mind. But no, until I did my first subdivide my port and 400 grand, I moved the hard to move property that's like 60% flood zone. And they did some very well on it paid the seller off, we had a two year contract on it and pay them out in nine months. So it was that light bulb coming on for me that says, Oh, dude, I can do this. So now when I talk to a seller, it's like 100% chance that I'm gonna perform, I'm not pulling the wool over your eyes. I'm not, I'm not blowing smoke, I can do this. Right. So once the seller believes that they're willing to give you control of the property, because they might have had it listed for a year and a half, I have a property that I'm working on right now. Two brokers own it. And they've had it listed for like two years, and they haven't been able to move it. And they're both giving me permission to move the property for them. Now, zero out of my own pocket. They said, Hey, sell this for us, right. And I'm looking at producing like a million dollars worth of mortgages on it. So it's a million dollar hit on something that I don't even own. Because these two guys trust me with their property. You know, so it's like, again, it's like having that belief having that ability to be able to convey to the sellers like, Hey, I promise you, I can get this done. If you take a chance on me, I'll get it done 100% chance. And once they buy into that they're just give you the deal here you take over. That's 47:08 incredible. I can imagine that that might be a little that could cause you to kind of second guess yourself. If you're dealing with owners who are brokers, they are quote unquote, the real estate expert in this and then they're not able to sell the property, I can understand how it could feel like oh my gosh, like, I'm not on the same level as these guys. So that's where that mindset comes in. And 47:33 they hired a ranch broker to sell the deal. And he couldn't move it either. We're in there. We're like halfway sold out already. 47:41 Nice. 47:42 Yes. Yeah, pretty cool, man. It's an interesting space to be in. I feel like it's like, some kind of weird dream, like, I'm gonna wake up tomorrow, and I'm gonna be remodeling houses still, like there's no, it's cool, man. It's a cool space to be in. Again, like I said, we're brand new to it. But we're moving pretty quick now. And now Now we're looking at stuff that six and a half million isn't 10 million 12 million. And I get that same feeling like, if they give me a shot, I'm gonna be able to do it. 48:09 Nice. Nice. So you know, if you could give three pieces of advice to a brand new person brand new to the land space has never done anything in real estate before? What would you what would you say to those people top three pieces of advice to a newbie. 48:29 Okay, I would say, hit the gym as many times as you can for a week without killing yourself, pray or meditate 10 to 40 minutes every morning and every night before you do anything else. And as soon as you wake up in the morning are lasting before you go to bed. And then the very last thing is to just get around the people that are already doing it. That's it, you'll save yourself, you can learn everything you can learn on YouTube and wherever else you're going. But get around people that are already doing it. And that'll save you, you know, 10 years and plenty of heartache. And then you don't have to have any experience. You don't have to have any knowledge. You don't have to have any closing abilities. And you don't have to have any capital. Get as close as you can to people that are doing what you already want to do. And the rest is history. And then also, like I said, build up that that muscle to be able to pick up the phone and make the phone calls. If you don't already have it, the only way that you're going to develop it is to get yourself into a gym, get yourself into a healthier state, make your body stronger and your mind gets stronger. So if you if you have a hard time picking up that phone, or sending that text message, do 20 pushups, you know, get your heart pumping, get psyched yourself out. And that'll make you want to pick up that phone. So I think it's working on yourself first getting around the people that are doing it. Those are the cheat codes. 49:40 Right on right on that's, that's fantastic. So at this point in your life, what is your biggest passion or goal that you'd like to achieve? Like what's on your radar? 49:52 I think for right now, I want to I'm open we're looking at opening a charity, right so I want to I want to help teens like teens that are in need to pray So you know, that kind of stuff. But I think the biggest thing that I'm passionate about right now is spreading the gospel, spreading the land investing gospel, because I feel like it's easy for one person to make themselves a millionaire. Right? Anybody can do that. And in this world, you can do it like with a single transaction. But my passion is like sharing this with as many people as I can before I die, because this information is it's available, it's out there, it's accessible, and people just don't know where to find it, or they haven't, you know, they don't know where to look. So that's it, it's like, I want to make sure that everybody that comes into contact with me for the rest of my life has reached some new level of success that so much so that they're able to share it with the people around them. And I think that would change and shape the world for the better when average, Joe is able to access enormous amounts of capital, I think that leads to a better world. I 50:44 love that. I absolutely love that. You know, it's just I love your your spirit for giving and sharing. And that's very, very apparent. So I want to thank you. Before we go on to the interview to the question and answer, period, I just want to thank you so much for joining us tonight. And in sharing with us and giving giving to us today. And so the question is, that I have for you is how can we give back to you right now? Like what resources or connections are you looking for right now? 51:16 I think the one thing again, we're always going to need is that need for capital people that need to park cash somewhere, right? That's one. And then also just Yeah, bring a deal. Bring a deal. If you say, Hey, I got this guy, and he's by Fort Worth, and he needs to move this $3 million farm, bring it over, let's have a look at it. You know, I'll try to help you take it down. I'll try to help you raise a capital, I'll talk to the guy I'll drive out and go see it. Whatever I can do to take it down. I'm out there. I'm not, you know, just making YouTube videos all day. I'm jumping barbed wire fences. And you know, I have a brand new track man. And when every single seller says the same thing to me, they're like, you want to drive around and take a look at it. And together, you're gonna get your truck dirty. That's what I bought it for. So I'm out there I'm in the mud. Man, I got mud boots in my truck. You know, I'm out there doing it. So yeah, if you got to do to look at or you want me to talk to somebody, I'll get on the phone. I'm talking to sellers every single day. Like I'm a practitioner, right? I'm not a guru. Right on. 52:07 So if people want to contact you, how can they contact you? Is there Do you have a website? Or what's what's the best way for them to contact you? 52:15 Um, I think they can just go to hive mind and hive mind CRM on Facebook. They can text the customer service number. It's 210-972-1842 and just say I need to talk to Anthony. I got a deal for him. Right on that kind of stuff that we're on. We're on YouTube tick tock. I mean, we got a podcast live with us podcast. We're everywhere. If you look for us, you'll find us. We'll find you. 52:38 You go. There you go. Absolutely. Awesome. Thanks, everyone, for joining us tonight. Anthony. I cannot thank you enough for joining us. Everyone be great. Have a great week. Be safe, and we'll catch you in the next one. Thanks, everybody. Thanks for having me on. Thank you. If you're interested in hearing from other six and seven figure land flippers about how they build and run their businesses, then check out my group only land fans where I do a live interview each week inside the group. You can grab that link at the description below. Until then be great. Have a great week and catch you in the next one.
Host/ Ceo/ Speaker
Hi! I am Anthony Gaona.
I’ve been in digital marketing for almost 15 years.I grew up in construction working for my dad when I was only 12 years old. Normally we had a ton of work or no work at all so a lot of my free time was spent learning how to generate leads.
It didn’t take very long for me to master online marketing because I became absolutely obsessed with it. For the last 15 years I’ve been generating construction based leads. At first I was running the projects myself. This led to sub-contracting all of the excess projects and eventually wholesaling the leads off to other construction companies.
One day I was preparing to build a single family residence for myself. In mid December, 2018, a simple YouTube search led me to the term wholesaling and the rest is history. The plan was to use my construction background to start flipping houses. By January 1st of 2019 I launched several marketing campaigns both on and offline for real estate seller leads.
Within about 4-5 weeks I had my first real estate contract locked up. It didn’t take long for me get a land lead where I made almost a full year’s pay on a single transaction. This came from a land lead and that forever changed my life.
I ran low volume larger land deals for the first two years of my real estate career. Like anyone who has been in real estate investing for an extended period of time, I started thinking about scaling my business.
Instead of deciding to vertically integrated and start hiring I imagined a model where I would teach my real estate investing methods to others. This would free up my personal bandwidth and allow for unlimited large scale transactions.
Currently our operations are expanding globally. The goal is to identify one person per major US Market that we can build a team around and drive traffic to so we can close high volume transactions together.
You can learn more about our vision and join our free mastermind by joining hivemind CRM on Facebook and all social channels