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Jan. 13, 2023

Ep 327: Raj Mody:Real Estate Land, Lending, & Lifestyle!

Ep 327: Raj Mody:Real Estate Land, Lending, & Lifestyle!
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0:01 Hello, hello. Hello. Welcome everybody to the hive with us podcast. My name is Frank Spalding here today. Daniel and Anthony are working on other projects currently. I'm sitting here today with Raj Modi. Raj is in Jacksonville, Florida and is a longtime investor, lender, developer landlord. very multifaceted multi talented. So I give you Raj Modi, everybody there rush. 0:35 Yeah, I'm here. How you doing? 0:42 Can you? Did you hear the intro? Or are you ready? 0:45 I heard the intro. The Internet cut out a little bit. Okay, so anyways, thank you. Thank you. Nice to talk to you. Nice. Nice to be here. Thank you, Frank. 0:57 Alrighty, so Raj, tell us a little bit about yourself. I've known you for what is it now? About five, six years, and you've never been a very public person? What's what's brought you out to the podcast today? Tell the world a little bit about yourself. 1:15 Thank you. Yeah, I mean, I've been in real estate pretty much my whole life and have enjoyed the whole industry been really busy the last decade or more than a decade doing deals, like you said, Whether buying properties being a landlord, commercial, residential, doing the joint venture financing. So, you know, my plate was always full, I didn't really have a huge need to get out there and do a ton of marketing or kind of putting myself out there. But you know, we're in it. We're in a different era now with, with technology with the changing market. And I feel it's a really good time for me to be out there, obviously, always about doing deals. But I think more importantly, sharing my knowledge and information with other people, and helping them I have been doing it for a while, but now maybe I could just do it in a more organized manner that, you know, benefits, others and of course, myself as well, and just create Win Win opportunities, which has my model since day one. 2:28 So one was day one. 2:31 Well, day one was pretty early, I would say the day I got my driver license, 16 years old. So that's back in the 90s. You know, it probably started even before then. But that's the reason why that time. And that era sticks out to me is as soon as I got my driver's license, I was able to be more flexible, whether it was going to properties, whether it was meeting people in real estate. My father, you know, was a landlord. And, you know, we weren't, it wasn't a very large operation. But, you know, one of the first things I had to do was, again, just go out and meet contractors and look at properties. And we had a commercial building. So, you know, if it required going to the courthouse to do paperwork over there for any reason, so the day I got my driver's license, I was I was, of course, having fun, like any 60 year old would do, but I was also I was also hitting the road and hitting the pavement with you know, just any kind of work. And then the story from from that time to now is is pretty lengthy. So, you know, I'll not go into much detail but a lot of different tribulations. You know, right around that time was actually around I was still in school, but fast forward to the last recession, the Great Recession in Oh 809 I mean, that's that's really where I I got my hands dirty and ever since then just been continuously evolving, and just doing more deals and different facets. 4:15 Okay, and you mentioned your father was a landlord so you learn real estate, you know, you grew up in your in the family business, essentially, you grew up learning this, 4:24 grew up learning it, which is good, because it's kind of ingrained in me. But I definitely have taken it to another whole nother level. at a really young age, the entrepreneur, entrepreneurial spirit, venturing out to different cities, taking on new asset classes taking on different different styles. I mean, it's just it's just totally evolved. So, you know, the best way that describes me as is a little bit as old school with a little bit of new school and I think that's one of the huge advantages I have. You know, I remember doing business at a very young age, forget about so Social media. I mean, the internet even wasn't that popular. I mean, I'm talking about, again, the 90s. Internet was new. And if it was new email was new. If it wasn't, it wasn't Hotmail, it was, you know, just the bare bone thing. So I mean, I remember doing business and that environment, I remember doing business, in the environment where, you know, technology became a little bit more, you know, useful and common. And then here we are today, where it's everything. I mean, I remember fax machines. And so So again, the good part is, I just remember doing a lot of business the old fashioned way. But I understand today, you know, there's so much more efficiencies with technology, kind of like what we're doing right now having this podcast and having the zoom. So there's, there's a lot of better ways to do it. But I think I can mix the the old school with the new school, and I think that's what really is a huge advantage for me and for whoever I work with. 5:55 Most definitely, most definitely. I recall when I met you, I think it was at a networking event, your office at that point in time, was an apartment complex you and your father owned, if I recall correctly. 6:10 Yeah, that's true. And that just goes back to that sentiment of old school. So just to touch base on that it was a 200 unit apartment complex. Not small by any any means, but required a ton of hands on management and operations. It was a complete renovation. I mean, again, I can write books on books just about that particular venture. But since since you commented on the office, I mean, that's what it took, it took being there every single day, you know, not not behind spreadsheets, and not really, people giving me the, you know, the spirit, it just required being hands on on site all the time, to make sure that venture was successful. And, and it turned out it was but but again, it took a lot of time and energy and hard work. So I'm very grateful for that. But yeah, I have I've definitely evolved. And not just one quick example. Again, there's many of them of my experience over the last couple of decades, and and how I'm able to share that with people, because that experience goes a long way. And again, it's on so many different asset classes, so many different sizes of properties. And but yeah, our office was there and and we made sure it was a successful venture among many other ventures we were working on, but that was the biggest and and yet have evolved since then. And overall, great experience. 7:46 Well, it's definitely and if I recall correctly, you and your father also own the office building that you're in now. Correct? 7:55 Yep. So we got an office building right now that we bought about seven, eight years ago. It was 100% vacant, it was a bank owned property. Quick story on that. It. You know, I approached the bank, a year before we bought it saying I'd like to buy it for XYZ price. And here are my terms and they were very favorable. And it took them about a year and a half to come back around and sell it to me at almost the same price. They had it under contract five or six times. The buyers couldn't perform and bought it and I'm very happy here. Very grateful. But yeah, that's the office building. We're in at the moment, have purchased shopping centers. You know, when it comes to residential, pretty much every kind from high end to look to medium to low to duplexes for plexes condominiums. I mean, there's there's very few asset classes I haven't been involved in, 8:56 in what asset classes specifically, are you looking for deals in on a regular basis right now? 9:05 Yeah, so right now? Well, I'll start off with a few that I'm not I'm not really looking to get back into the multifamily. Although I understand that business very well. I just think it's too competitive and too, too saturated right now. 9:22 Margins are too tight right now. And margins 9:24 are very tight. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And it's, it requires, you know, that's, that's a perfect example of an asset class that I think, you know, newcomers think is very, I mean, I don't know what they were appealing or attractive to get into. Because it sounds great. Like, oh, I don't know, an apartment building or apartment complex and things like that. But deep down it required to make good money on it. It requires a lot of hands on. It's a huge learning curve. It's a huge learning curve. So I'm not I'm really not really looking to get back into that. Office, I'm not crazy about either, because, you know, we just went through the pandemic, and, you know, this whole, this whole work from home, this whole zoom and technology. And you know that that puts a little bit downer on that. I'm not saying I wouldn't get into that, but um, I'm not as excited about that. The The one area I would say, I'm a little more excited about is retail shopping centers, mini storage, you know, those those couple of assets I'm more interested in. 10:37 Those are definitely some positive asset classes that I've been targeting, both by education and marketing myself, so definitely like that. I understand. You're looking to partner with people as that part of the coming out and getting a little bit more public now. Yeah, I mean, all you're looking to do. 11:02 Sure, yeah. On that topic? Um, it's not necessarily I'm looking to partner, I kind of feel I mean, the answer is yes. But I also feel it's kind of the other way around, I think with, you know, with with the capital that we have, and with the with the knowledge base, and with the, with the infrastructure I have, I just see it as a win win. So in the last couple of years, that's what I focused a lot on is more of the partnership, joint venture, private lending. And one of the reasons for that is because I, again, have have an extensive amount of knowledge, but, you know, I had to make a decision whether to keep scaling my business, hiring more people and taking on more and more projects that require a lot of day to day, staying on top and being being on the ball with all those projects, and I just knew I burned myself out if I kept doing it. So the whole idea about partnering, and it's a very loose word. So I don't want to, you know, go to too broad or too specific, but again, it can come in many different forms. But the idea is everybody brings something to the table. And, again, with with capital and with with knowledge and strategy, you know, one thing I didn't mention yet is I actually have my MBA in real estate and finance from from a very top tier school. And, you know, that's very proud of it, but But what it is, is, when it comes from a strategy and an execution standpoint, I, I feel I have a lot of knowledge and experience to bring to the table on top of the capital. But I understand that a lot of these deals require hands on management, or sometimes even just hands on work. And so that's, that's a great opportunity for younger, smaller, you know, ambassadors, they don't necessarily got to be brand new, it's just that they could be you know, they could have done a couple of deals and want to take it to the next level. That's, that's that kind of partnership that works well, where the other party is getting that they're getting my knowledge and expertise and, and all that. And in my case, like I said, I could do way more projects doing it that way than trying to take on everything for myself and, and the at the very end of each project, the goal would be of course, for everybody to make money. And the other thing would be for that investor or that partner, for whatever we want to call it to be a little bit wiser, a little bit more experienced out of it as well. 13:43 Any worthwhile deal has to be its best when it's a win win for everybody 21 sided deals and you lose the ability to get people to deal with you for sure. 13:54 Yeah, I think that when when the sellers. Yeah, absolutely, that Win Win model to me has to apply in almost every facet of business, you know, it could even be a landlord tenant, it can be, it could be a contractor, property owner, I mean, it can it extends further than just sometimes investor, an investor or lender and borrower or something like that. I just feel it really has to apply in every facet of business. And that should always be the model. 14:29 Most definitely. So I know you also like to, you know, you and your father both, you know, prefer to be able to hold. So, you know, are you also still specifically targeting for purchase? Or has the current pricing of the economy kind of tempered yellow, a little bit on that waiting for better deals to come along? 14:56 That's a good question because you know, market cycles and the conditions of the market is, you know, one of the most important things, you know, time, you know, a saying that I like to always keep in the back of my mind, it's not an absolute, but you know, the old saying in real estate is location, location, location, which is, of course, extremely important. I also like to combine that with timing, timing, timing, and I give a very interesting example, I say, if you, if an investor bought a property, at the worst time, let's call it, oh, 708, you know, 15 years ago, and it was in the best location, you know, not even that location can save you because your timing was wrong. And if, you know, in 2012, and 13, when the market was just starting to, you know, accelerate from from the last downturn, then, you know, they could have bought some, and the investor could have bought something in the worst location and still made money. So, you know, I say that just to kind of emphasize on your on your question and comment about, you know, market cycles and timings is very important. So, to answer that, yeah, you know, I've, I've stayed a little bit away from buying the last couple of years, you know, we came out of this, this pandemic stimulus market that I think was highly, you know, not say, artificial, but, you know, there was a lot of not normal things going on. And so I just didn't feel like playing in that arena. So that's where, again, my joint venture partnership, borrower lender type of deals really accelerated during that time. Because, because it was just the right timing for it. Buying, going back to buying properties. Myself, I mean, I'm always kind of on the hunt. But yeah, I would agree with that statement that, you know, there might be a benefit in waiting a little bit. I mean, I'm not really waiting, but I'm not chasing either. I think 2023 is going to be a challenging year, for markets for for interest rates, for, you know, what the Fed, and their plan is, and so, you know, it's a, it's a, a tough time for certain people, but it's also a huge opportunity, and opportunistic time. Yeah, 20 and 23, and going into 24. And it's not the same, but it reminds me a little bit of, Oh, 678, you know, getting out of an environment that was very, you know, very crazy, heavily, heavily buyers, you know, out the out the wazoo. And it's just different, it's a different environment, but it replicates a lot of those things. And I remember that time, like it was yesterday, I tell people all the time, oh, eight is like, ingrained in my head. You know, someone says, Oh, that was 15 years ago, it feels like yesterday to me, because it was a really, really unique time. You know, from all different facets personally and professionally. And I just feel that, you know, it won't be the exact way, but there's a lot of similarities in it. And I think it pays to be patient sometimes. And to go back to your comment about, you know, holding properties, long term debt, you know, that's also another, another patient, you know, you use that word patient. And that's another thing. I mean, I have, I still own properties that we bought in the last recession, let's call it Oh, eight 910. And throughout that whole cycle never sold. Now I sold some, but you know, I'm willing to be as patient as possible. And the good part about you know, investors or people who get into real estate and stay in it long term is you and you understand those cycles a lot more, you know, people who have people who have only been in real estate in the last decade or smaller amounts of timeframe, haven't seen a down market, they've only seen things go on the up and up. And, you know, again, going back to it, I've seen both sides. And one of the things is, you know, being patient and holding on to properties is interesting because as investors own more more and more properties, you could you could pick and choose so what I've done for example is sell sold some kept others. And sometimes there's some properties you don't want to sell sometimes there's properties you want to sell and replace with others, some some asset classes you want to get out of like I meant multifamily, and you're not that keen on getting back into for the moment now that could change. So, again, it's that strategy and it's that sort of long term thinking that I bring to the table because I could I could analyze any kind of deal in the moment. But I can also have that one year, five year 10 Year 20 year time horizon, you know, in the back of my mind as well and they just a lot of it over time is just putting so many pieces of the puzzle together to be able to make Take very, you know, strategic and efficient decisions. 20:04 Strategic. There's one of the key words. So is it just pricing currently that soured you on the multifamily market? Or, you know, I recall, you said, you know, it was kind of resource intensive as far as your time also, you had you took over and you moved your business into the office there on site. And there was always, you know, I recall going over there many times, and there was always something going on with the property just as much as there was your other business ventures. So, just the finance right now? Or is it just, maybe it's not a task you want to take on again? Or a little bit about taken from a different man, you know, maybe from a different manner? 20:49 Yeah, absolutely. It's a little bit of both. And I think, as, you know, as, as real estate entrepreneurs, and as business people, you evolve, I mean, you have to, and so, but you also evolve as a person. And I think it's a combination of those two, it's a combination of what you just said, frankly, in the business environment, and also from a personal standpoint, and that's the thing that that people realize over time to is that certain things could be good for one person or one type of investor, and then they may not be for the other, so goes back to devolving and cycles. And, you know, everybody has to kind of make their own own decision and on call, and that's another thing that I've helped a lot of people over the last couple of years is, again, I've you know, I've sort of done it indirectly. I've mentored and advised and strategically helped so many people over the last couple of years. And when you ask me my very first question about why am I kind of coming out right now, and, and being more vocal, and just sort of putting myself out there, it's because I've almost really been doing it for the last over the decade, but, but I think it really accelerated over the last couple of years. And now I'm like, Okay, there's a, there's a better way I can do this, there's a more organized way and, and to help people, you know, more in a more structured manner than what I was doing sometimes before as having these two or three hour conversations with people in my office. Or I would be going to their property or their project, and spending two, three hours at a time, you know, telling them about all different options they have, and different ways of doing what they want to do. And so it's like, I've been doing it, I just think there's a better way I can do it to help more people on the masses. And, but But yeah, that's that's kind of been been how I've evolved over the last couple of years. 22:47 Now, how many people are in this kind of fits into the next question, how many people are on your team? And I know from talking to you a couple of times, you prefer to have eyes on each property that both that you purchase, obviously, you prefer to have eyes on, and as much information about it, but also even properties that you lend on. You don't just trust someone to go take some photos you'd like to go get eyes on. Does that also kind of limit you? Or have you found that that's saving you in the long run? Potentially? Well, I think it goes back to what I guess might be a better word. 23:28 Yeah, yeah. It's a great, it's a great question. I think what happens is it goes back to that what I just said a minute ago, it's like to each to each their own, I mean, there's there, there's no exact way to do one or two things. But yeah, that'll be an adjustment. I've always taken pride on looking at properties. Seeing people at the properties, I've my office been a very one to one type of person to give a very, you know, personalized service. And real estate. So the other thing is, real estate is a very tangible, real that's why it's called Real Estate. It's a very real product. It's not like buying a stock. It's not like buying crypto, it's not like buying bonds, which is a piece of paper. And again, I just go back to it. My My experience is in doing things both ways. Of course, I can't just live on the field. I can't just I can't just hop in my car and go to a property every single time something happens of course I make decisions also based on analysis, you know, from from every level but but yeah, I mean, you know that and I think that's a whole interview podcasting on its own, but, but the short summary of it is, you know, investors are people who think and I know this was very big in the pandemic because Of course, a lot of people were at home and not getting on planes or not get not going to see people etc. You know what a big myth, I think, is to think you could do real estate always just sitting behind a computer or doing analysis on an Excel or spreadsheet. And, you know, and just photos. I mean, you can do it, of course, but I don't know, I'm a big, I'm a big believer of seeing, seeing the property with my own eyes, touching it, smelling it, feeling it. And I have so many stories on that as well. I mean, when I, when I say something like smelling it, I mean, I can, I can recount fire burn properties, you know, you that smell of smoke? You know, I can I'm just giving an example. But you know, and then when you go back to touching, you know, is it is it? Is it brick? Is it concrete? Is it wood? Is there termite is there, it goes on and on. And so you can almost apply all the senses, you know, maybe not taste, I don't think anyone's tasting a property. But you know, it's almost just from like, touching, seeing, hearing, feeling. I mean, it's, it's a real product. And it goes back to what I said a minute ago, why you know why there's an old school and new school mixed to things. It's, I've experienced, like the old school way, which is, again, just being at the property, constantly, you know, just sort of being being hands on being right there. And then again, I understand the other side of the coin, too, you have to, you have to be able to work off of your computer or your phone, you have to have, you know, team members, whether they're your direct employees, whether they're contractors, you know, that trust that that relationship has to be there as well. So there's no right or wrong answer. I just think that in the last couple of years, it's gotten a lot more in the direction of, Oh, I could do this sitting sitting in my chair sitting in my computer, you know, and I think, I think that, that limits yourself and that angle, but again, just like it limits, if you say well, I can't make this decision on the phone, I gotta go drive to the property to decide, am going to put a, you know, a $50 toilet or $100? I mean, yeah, you have to make those decisions without having to go to the property. But, but that's just that just goes back to experience and knowledge and how you want to do things, because I think you got to be able to do it both ways. 27:23 Definitely, most definitely. So I know you gave us currently just an email address, I know you're working on a site, to be able to present for as a way for people to get in touch with you. and such like that, I know, they can reach you at Rajat, which is showing on the screen right now. By the time this episode comes out, we will I know you said you'll have a domain for us to sign up and ready, that we can add to the show notes. So that everybody can reach out to you that way. What you know, what's, you know, explain maybe the part, you know, maybe, you know, someone brings you a DLT? And what do you prefer? You know, what do you expect from them to be able to properly? Vet a deal? I guess, yeah, might be a good way to say it. Is it a deal? Is it not a deal, etc? What what information are you going to want from them? 28:22 Well, I mean, that's a very broad question. But important question nonetheless. You know, again, it has to be a case by case. And, you know, I just expect if somebody brings me a deal, for whatever reason, my first golden rule is this. And it goes back to that when when everybody has to make money. And I always say if the deal is good enough, everybody who's involved in that deal can make money and do well. And they should do well. And that's the goal. And that's the expectation. If the deal is not good, if the margins are too tight, if if if the analysis says that, oh, yeah, we can make money, but only if these several things happen in sequence, then, you know, I like to tell people, sometimes you might, you may want to rethink that deal. And another another quick side note on that, before I get back to that original question, man, that's another huge thing that I've done over the course of my career, but especially in the last last couple of years, is I have actually talked people out of buying deals. And the first the first way I did that would say, hey, look, the deal you just presented to me, doesn't make sense to me. I don't want to be a part of it. But then after I tell them that I spend time with them, just because I truly care about whoever I'm dealing with at any level, whether they have a colleague or a friend or it could be something, someone I've never met before, but I always I believe in karma and I believe in I believe in, you know, the humanitarian you know, good way of just Working with people, which is, you know, I've told people I think, you know, if I'm not involved in this deal, or whether I'm involved or not, you want to reanalyze this thing, because I don't see how you can make money off of it. And I don't like to see people get the wrong end of the stick. And so I've actually talked a lot of people throughout throughout the years, you know, even if had nothing to do with me out of deals, or at the very least, I've told them why they should think twice, or sleep on it before they really commit to it. But to go back, you know, because again, I don't want to see that they lose money, if I can help them. But to go to go back to it. That's what it is, I mean, to me, the investor has to do a first round of due diligence themselves, they can't just present a deal to me, and expect me to do all the due diligence, I mean, they have to, they have to have a clear idea of what they're doing first. Now, if they're not experienced enough, then that's a whole other whole other aspect. But they have to kind of vet the deal first, as if they're putting all of their own money into it. Because that's another thing I learned over the years, too, is a huge difference between people call OPM, you know, if it's other people's money, they'll be like, Oh, it's a wonderful deal. And then if it's there on money, then then they're thinking about it 567 times over and over again. So I always felt much more critical, much more critical. Exactly. And it's human nature. I don't I mean, you know, we're all like that. So, I like to say that person has to really think hard about if it's 100% of their own money, they got a thing, you know, how good of a deal is this? And how do they expect to make money and if they do the proper analysis, then they present the deal to me, then at least we can have an have a very educational and strategic conversation about it. And I like to put things in rounds. I mean, you know, you're, no one's going to understand a specific deal, right from the very beginning. And same time, you know, you have to, you have to go through different rounds and sequences, and that's one of the, I have somewhat not say perfected, but I've somewhat, massage that whole process over the years, which I'd be happy to share with people throughout time. But I can, I can vet deals very quickly. And so and so again, it just goes back to understanding the key metrics of that particular deal, how that investor plans to make money, how we all expect to make money, and and then there's the risk factor, you know, well, nobody wants to, you know, cross the Sahara for a glass of water. So if, if the deal can make money, but it requires so much risk and so much time and all that stuff, then I'm the first to tell that person you may want to, you may want to rethink this thing. But I think it just comes back to understanding the key metrics, understanding the deal itself could be commercial, it could be residential. And that's why I don't want to go too specific. I don't even know what deal we're talking about. But just understanding those key points. 32:58 Yeah. I know, if I recall correctly. I know you were running short on time. I think you had a meeting at 1230. Our time and we're eastern time right now, as we record this on Thursday afternoon. Really quickly, what what are you reading right now? What What book are you reading? Or what author Do you prefer? What type of books? So we always ask this question. 33:25 Good question. And again, just from the sheer nature of my educational credentials, like I have a bachelor's degree in international business, and I have an MBA in real estate finance. So I take education very seriously. Both from a formal and informal but I take I take the real world knowledge, you know, and that's another thing like I try to always balance those two you know, straight knowledge and, and book knowledge. So, to answer that question on books, I don't have a specific book or author I can, I can comment on maybe the next time we talk I'll have more specific, but I will say I do enjoy anytime reading or listening to a podcast, for example, that is about real estate, business finance, could be about motivation could be about just the I like to call the intangibles could be about those things that make people successful, whether they're in real estate or not. You know, and so I can't give you a specific name. But there are several I do in general like to listen to, it's just, you know, education is one of those things where, you know, you can be educated it can be enlightening for someone and maybe not for someone else for whatever reason. So I just say, people should always look at continuously educating themselves. I will say a completely non real estate non business topic. I'm really into playing tennis right now. I enjoy it. And so, you know, Where I come from a real estate, I like to consider myself an expert or absolute professional in real estate and finance. But in tennis, I'm a newbie, but I enjoy playing. And so so it's like, I can wear my, my expert hat in one category. And I can wear my student hat in another category. And that's why I bring that up to you. So on anything that somebody wants to learn more about, just keep reading, keep listening, keep educating yourself. But whether it's real estate or tennis, you have to combine the book, knowledge with the street. So somebody, in my opinion, can can only listen to some only so many podcasts, read so many books, or if I take the tennis example, can only watch so many YouTube videos. At some point, you got to get out there, at some point, you got to do it yourself. And it's just that it's just that combination of both but by all means, everybody should always look at trying to make themselves better and more educated in any topics. And 36:09 definitely, you know, knowing that you're a fan of tennis, and you know, a diehard student of tennis, I was going to bring that up. And you already hit it in YouTube University is a great way to learn just about anything, but always do broad research, in my experience, because there's just as many people on YouTube presenting bad information is there are people presenting positive or not so much positive, but the correct information. People can be extremely positive, but give incorrect information, or just bad experience to the situation to make something seem off, when if you do it the right way, or come at it from the right way it can work. And but then then even the same reverse can be said. So 36:59 that's exactly right. I mean, that's such a huge point you brought up, you know, whether it's real estate, or tennis, or any other category, who you're listening to, is very important, because and that's the other thing with social media and with YouTube and many other platforms, anybody could, could go on there and say things, but it doesn't mean they're an expert, you have to really dig into what what have they done. And, you know, I've experienced that firsthand in tennis, because I have I have listened to YouTube videos and other coaches. And what I've found is the sometimes you can just get that one coach or that one teacher, and it's so vital, because they're teaching you the right way. And, and what they're doing is they're teaching you the things that because you could take any category, it could be a baking, it could be a basketball, it could be painting, could be any, any topic. And they're always people who could give their two cents on a topic. But it's so important to get the right one the right one that fits with you, but also the right one who can really bring you to the next level. Because, you know, I can learn how to serve from 20 different instructors. But there could be that one who really teaches me the right way. And then that allows you as a student to take what you've learned, and then build off of that. And so so it's important to have a student hat, a teacher hat, a coach had whatever it is, and then really analyze it from many different standpoints. But that's that's suit that's really critical. What you just said about getting listened to the right people. 38:46 Yep, I agree. 100%. Well, I definitely appreciate your time today. I know quite often when we're trying to talk, it takes a bit to get get you on the phone. And it's a matter of you know, texting and communicating, you know, up until the point where you're finally able to get a get on the phone. I've been by your office and I know sometimes I sit in a conference room waiting while you finish up other business. So I'll let you get to your next meeting today. As always, everybody please follow us on YouTube. We're also you know, hive with us podcast is available on all platforms, Apple, Spotify, and the other platforms are out there. I'm fairly certain we're on that we're also available on YouTube. And this will also broadcast as a live show on Facebook. sometime within the next week or two. We get a hold of Raj, Raj Modi at Raja Not many people think to just get their last name as a domain names. That's a pretty broad idea. I like that. And then, as said, we'll have a domain a website for you to go to for more information or also for contacting Raj will be added to the show notes for this episode. So thank you once again, Raj, I appreciate you coming out today and being available. 40:09 Thank you for having me, Frank, in a wonderful time. I know there's so much more information and content and knowledge to share. This is just a introduction, but I really enjoyed it. And thank you. And for anybody listening, I hope they got at least a little bit out of it, but it's just sort of the, I always say tip of the iceberg scratching the surface. And I really hope to share information and knowledge with more people as I do enjoy it. And I do want to see people as a whole do very well in their personal and in their business life. 40:43 Excellent. Definitely. Appreciate your time. Once again, hopefully you have a great day. And thank you everybody for tuning in to this episode of the hype with us podcast. We'll have the outro following this and everybody have a great day.