0:01 Hey welcome to today's episode. I have a special guest Mr. Bryan Kramer who has h two h business which we're gonna talk about that in a second but I hope you will stay tuned and enjoy this episode All right, Brian Kramer. Where are you from in the country? Where are we? Where are we having this conversation from? 0:20 Hey there I'm in San Jose, California. 0:21 San Jose awesome. I like California I just moved to Southern California I live in between San Diego and LA I moved here about three years ago so 0:33 great spot where exactly what city by Temecula? Oh, yeah. 0:38 What about specular? I love it out here just because like, I grew up in Chicago, and it's like really mundane and boring. And then like, every time we come to California is like mountains and scenery and then if you go to like Big Bear, there's snow capped mountains and like you see a lot of action out here versus mundane flat planes. 0:58 Yeah, that makes a huge difference in how you show up how you feel your your everyday life. I get it, man. 1:06 Yeah, it helps helps a lot with every everything er going on. So let's talk about h two h business. What does that mean? What does that mean? I like I like this. And if everybody you're I'm a big fan of this, but what's h h mean? 1:21 Yeah, h h is human human. It's the title of my first book. There's no b2b or b2c. It's HGH, human human. And it's about simplicity, bringing back to simplicity, empathy, and imperfections to everything that we do in business and in life. And there's a lot of there's a lot has changed in 2014, since I first wrote it about, you know, even now, I mean, it's, it's crazy for at first it was social media, then, then now it's artificial intelligence, machine learning, even human zoom to human meetings, in the pandemic. So how do we bring things closer and not farther away from actually having interactions with other human beings. 2:03 I reason why I like this so much is because I am I've kind of resonate with you along this point is that people value like the money to money in business, a business relationship, but like, if you leverage the human capital, the human capital takes you way further than just the money and money situation. And a lot of people totally overlook that part of it. And our whole thing in our business model is leveraging the human capital because human capital is infinite. 2:30 It definitely is, man. And it's something that, you know, I find that a lot of people are trying to automate more and more and farther we automate that, the further we get away from that exactly what you just said. So it makes it makes a complete difference, when you have an actual conversation with somebody and you get to know them, you know, their, you know, the different sides of what makes them tick, and how they, how they, you know, just even listening and making somebody feel seen is is something that that a robot will never be able to do at the level of which, you know, you can get from another human being. 3:08 So, a lot of people, there's a lot of like introverted people that they struggle to have human interaction. And I feel like it's a superpower that most entrepreneurs they have and leverage as a whole, just because they're introverts at nature, but they have to step out of their comfort zone. So become really, really good at building relationships. And for some people, it's a struggle for some people, it comes like, it comes easily more than others do, you have like tips to help building that human connection for people that struggle with that part of it? 3:39 Well, so being an A ambivert, myself, it's not something that I'm foreign to, you know, I side on the side of introverts and extroverts, depending on where I'm at, in my day, my week, month life, that kind of thing. So, you know, introvert is not somebody that necessarily doesn't want to be around other human beings, it's just that they, they don't draw energy from others in in certain situations. And so, how to do that is to ask powerful questions. Most of the time, you know, actually being in a group or agreeing, being around people draws either too much energy, it's overwhelm and nobody loves to networking, you know, it's it, we're going out and having to do all that. I don't recommend it. If you don't want to do it, don't do it. I mean, do do the things that fill you with joy. And where I was heading with that is really creating a deeper conversation. Most introverts actually want deeper conversations, they don't like surface level conversations, that little small talk that we have, and, and cut, you know, talking about little things that the weather and, you know, you know, what we're doing this weekend and what was how, what fun did you have, you know, over the weekend, that kind of stuff is really actually challenging for introverts. When you start to get a little bit deeper and you say something with a powerful question of what's what actually is, what's one, two or three things that's exciting to you right now. And you start to really deep dive into those things and start to really understand them. The extra, the introvert goes away and the, in the ambivert comes out to where you actually feel lighter. 30 seconds later, you're like, wow, okay, I met somebody who I can just be with, and it's not that hard. It's not drawing my energy for us to have to sit here and find something to talk about and find something that is going to, you know, make us want to, you know, go, I don't want I don't want to have have any more of this time. And, you know, in, in, in, in what I do day to day, so yeah, really get deeper. I know, it's opposite of what you might think an introvert wants. But I do think that introverts actually love deep, deep conversations. And when they start to get that they go, Okay, I found my people I can be okay, here. 5:55 Oh, I really wanted to touch on this too. Can you give a brief description what an ambivert is, because I've only heard that a few times. And I know, my listeners might have never even heard that word before. So I want to kind of break that down a little bit. 6:07 Yeah, and ambivert is somebody that that is a little bit of both. I, you know, for instance, when I speak, I speak a lot. And when I give keynotes, I have to go right back to my hotel room afterwards and chill for a little bit. That's not to say that I can't go out and be with people. But I've just given all my energy and I've taken all this energy from the audience. And and now I'm at this point where I can't do anything else. For someone else, I've got to put the oxygen mask back on myself first before others go into my own hotel room and just chill for, you know, 15 minutes, 45 minutes depends on how much you know, I've been at a conference or how long I've been out with people or whatever. And so they're I hit, I hit a max capacity, I listened to that, and I go, Okay, I'm done, I'm ready. And now I've got to go home, or I've got to go back to my room and recharge my batteries. So that I can go out and be there for someone. But I love being around people, I love being with others. And so you know, does not worry me at all to go and be and do and actually create more engagement with people, it's just that I hit my level. And sometimes I got to just listen to that and go, go do what you know, what I need to do to take care of myself. So that's an ambivert is a little bit of both and not everybody's the same, everyone has a different different way of being some people, you know, their, their their level of threshold is different than mine. I mean, it's it could happen faster or shorter. Depending on the date or having you might be more of an introvert one day and more of an extrovert the next day, there's nothing that defines us in terms of what we are, who we are or what we can do or be in that in that realm. And so that's why I side with the ambivert. Because I really do think that everyone wants to be with others. It's just a matter of what level. 7:59 Thank you. Thanks for that clarification. I think everybody listening to that whole Claire, that whole breakdown, like, Yeah, I kind of resonate with that, like you like being around people with not too too long. I think it's I think it's really good. I really, I really glad that you broke that down in a simplistic way. But I think self care is important, because you can only take so much like physical burden and mental burden on yourself for us, you break and you're breaking down on yourself, which isn't always good. So you have to know your limits. So I 100% I appreciate that. That was the word I'm looking for that transparency, transparency. So how can people leverage their h two h and understanding that in their business? What's the what's the biggest benefits that can get as far as maybe building up community inside their business? Maybe it's empowering the people to do better business. So what's the really like amplification you can get by leveraging the age stage? 9:02 Oh, you know, how can you get more amplification? I don't know if I would if I think that that you know, that used to work at some point when you're looking at amplification. Now it's a matter of, I think, how do I connect with more individuals? One to one and then the second question I usually get asked is how do you scale that because there's only so much of us to go around. But you know from an amplification standpoint, you see so many people shouting from the rooftops on social media it was my second book was how sharing powers the social economy share ology and and you know we share so much now that it almost gets it's kind of like that one day when you know we're all doing demand gen or direct mail and it just it was the See of same and you know, you get so many things that out there in your mailbox or in your in mailbox or in your now social media. It's like, you just go look at a Twitter feed, it's gonna be the same. Same thing on Instagram. It's like, how many perfect lives? Can we see? Before we see somebody who actually has a real life? And so, you know, I think the thing is, is, you know, you got to ask yourself, like, what actually, like, makes you you? And how do you stand out, like, the uniqueness of each of us of each as, as individual individuals or as companies, is the thing that actually makes you more human, if you break it down into three separate categories, which is what I talked about at the very beginning, which is simplicity, empathy, and imperfection, that that changes the game. Because A, as humans, we tend to make things more complex. So we've tried to sound smart, we tried to sound like there's something there's like all these, you know, acronyms for everything we're talking about, we speak a different language inside the company and ends up like coming outside and the clients don't even know or talking about, you know, speed, defeat, and, and synergy and like all this crap that we're all saying, and at some point, you actually just want to like, speak normal, and just say, like, say, What the heck are you trying to say? What do you do? What does your company actually do? Like, how many company pages do we go to? And we're looking at their website, and we're like, I don't even know what you do like that. Like, you're you want to ask them like, who I hope you didn't pay money for this, because there's no messaging or something on there that just says, Here's what I do. And so when we start to simplify and make it easy on others, like, for instance, I know a lot of people if I say What brand is simple, what would you say what brand is simple do? 11:40 I think? And I think when you say, Brandon is simple to me, everybody thinks Apple, Apple's a very simple brand. It's very transparent. It's very young, you know what it is? Right? When you get into it? 11:50 Exactly. So there you go. You follow Apple, I mean, they're almost the prime example. Because you can count on two hands, what they what products they have, I doubt very many people would actually get it wrong. They'll probably say iPhone, iPad, you know, AirPods laptops, and then maybe one or two other things, but for the most part that got it right, and they're like, Yeah, that's what they do, then. And when you go to their website, you can find each product within a matter of three seconds. And when you want to order something, you can do that within probably five to 10, you know, minutes, and there's and when you would take it back, you go to an Apple Store, and they help you out because they're I say an air quotes geniuses. And so when you go to their brand, they actually stand up for exactly what the thing is that they want, which is a designed experience. That's what Steve Jobs was all about was a design, simple experience. And you got that you get that in the operating system and everything that they do. So now if I say, you know, who embraces empathy, what brand embraces empathy? What would you say? 12:57 Branding versus empathy? I would say, for some reason, I think like insurance companies, so you're like, looking at like, the State Farm, or like, you're in good hands, because they tried to translate the slogan. 13:12 Totally. Yeah, that's a great one. Actually, I don't know if I've had that one before. And so you know, if you he, you know, and he says State State Farm is there, you know, that's there. Right? Like, we are there like that has some how simple can you be like when you need us, we're going to be there. And so you know, that's a that's a great example of like, Now now, do you back that up as a brand is the brand actually like doing that thing? Like Apple actually, is a simple thing. That's the that's the next thing like yeah, actually, you gotta do what you say you do in in the empath, or an empathetic way and actually care about your customer. Like you can say it all day long. But do you actually do it? That's another thing. Like for instance, if you go to Amazon and you return any product, love or hate Amazon, they will take it back. They're like Nordstrom with the old tire 10 years ago or 20 years ago when they some person it's old folklore took a tire back and they returned everything and they took it back. And so you know, Amazon is empathetic towards their customer when you when you think about it, because you can't take everything back to without question everywhere. But you can the Amazon and you can they care that to that level, they've made it easy and empathy. They have empathy for their customer. Now if I say who embraces imperfection, the third and final one Who do you think embraces not? Because every company is imperfect, even though they think they are perfect, but who embraces imperfection? 14:42 who embraces imperfection? Man this is that one's a hard one. I'm like, I think of a Carnival Cruise. 14:55 Tell me, tell me why. 14:58 The reason why I think of that is because There's like even like any type of traveling like something wrong is always going to happen. And it's just figuring out and man that was that was the hardest hardest one I think you've asked me and well what's your go to on that one that you hear a lot? 15:16 Well I don't have a go to I but there are a lot of there are a lot of different ones. Every one is imperfect, like I said, so you can look at you could look at each each company and think well did they receive how did they respond to scenarios how did they respond to things? Was it in honesty which right now because we're we are a lack of honesty. The the trust factor of brands right now is at the all time low. So that's why we're having you're having a hard time coming up with that. That only happened in the last year or the last six months, where trust in and in our in our ways of how we think about brands is is has changed completely are they telling the truth. You know, dove is a good brand dubbed celebrates the imperfection of skin and and you know, even in their their commercials, you look at how they step up and celebrate diversity. Man, you can't come across a more imperfect, empathic, and empathetic and even simplistic brand. When you look at all three, and that's rare. That's rare to find a brand that actually has all three, Apple doesn't have all three, Amazon does not have all three. But when you look at dub, they have got all three are you look at some other brands that stand up, step up for those things in those ways. Those are the brands that look you look at new go, I'm gonna be a customer for life. I want to I don't care I have brand I have brand love, I have my super mega fan of this brand. And when you have that new find that it usually includes all three of those things. 16:53 I'm really glad you mentioned, because I wouldn't like what you said it like makes sense, because it really does that brace infection perfectly. And I think that's I want to think of like a pair apparel lines and beauty, beauty, beauty, beauty, beauty, the whole devil niche of business, that 100%. Man, that's so good. So is there anything is that those are the three because I think they're I think there's more and like I've never had this conversation about business. But I think finding one of those is powerful in its own way. But if you find a way to harness more than one, it can really accelerate and translate your business across in different forms. And not just business, the business and you're actually connecting with that with that brand to customer relationship. 17:37 Yeah, the those are the three, that thank you that makes it brand, the most human that it can be. So that you can then be able to scale your company and still remain and with your culture intact, which is important and have a culture that people really want to be a part of that they want to celebrate. There is a fourth one that I'm writing about. And it's in my third book right now. And I'll give you a sneak peek on it, which is vulnerability. Vulnerability is the key to trust. And so when you throw in simplicity, empathy, imperfection and now vulnerability, you now have a trusted brand. And so those are the those are the brands that we're going to lean towards even more. So moving forward. Because we've got, like I said, before we have AI and machine learning and like, did they really do that image? Do they really draw? The are the images that we're seeing somebody from an from an art a real artist, or from an AI artists like these are the you know, we've got so many different AI possibilities. Now we're going to start to think, who actually created that thing? Who did that thing? Who's, who's talking with me right now? Is this an AI bot? Or is this a real person who actually created you know, the the sequence in this email that I'm getting? Is this really a bot or not? Because it's they're picking some things out? No one knows. And it's creeping me out. So there's some things that we need to actually be aware of. First and foremost, that is possible. And number two is is it the truth? Are they telling the truth? And or? Or is this brand, not stepping up in the right ways that they need to so that they can gain our hours the consumer, the honesty that we deserve? 19:20 So I have a question for you. So AI is really getting picked out where the line is drawn do you is the best way of marketing is like stepping far away from AI as possible. That way you can really translate that that connection, or is it skirting the line where you use automation to get more business along with that they don't know if it is or not. 19:42 It's both it's it's technology and humans working together to create to create relationships, but it's not or it's not technology, creating it's not humans creating it's both because why not leverage the power of what it can do to help you get closer to to a real relationship, if you are not moving towards a real relationship you're using it for, for that for the wrong purposes, if you're trying to use it so that it separates you and another relationship, you're now pushing using technology for something that I don't believe that we want to find out what happens when that happens, like it's because it's going to create chaos, and it's going to create dissonance inside of our companies and outside it with our customers. So it's really super important that we understand what that line is, and where it stands. So that we're we are constantly building towards a better relationship. 20:38 No, I think I'm really glad to answer that question. Because it's so important to because if you can leverage automation to get closer to as many people as possible, that's where you that's where you're in the you're in the sweet spot. 100% how can how can you translate your marketing across to seem more authentic? Because I think a lot of people struggle with marketing as a whole just to connect with their with their third correct audience. And like, what some tricks or things they can do to market better to connect better? 21:09 Well, you know, as you that's a really good question. So a lot of times we, we think we say what they want to hear, and it's never it's never what they want to hear. And that's that a lot of times it's because we're at we are, we're pumping out the same bullcrap that everyone else is, and we sound like I said, the CSM. And so why would I want to do business with with someone like, like, like that, who's who's who's creating, you know, things that I mean, I just, I just got, I got to the point where actually went through and unsubscribed to every single newsletter and started over because I was like, I just, I need to start over. I don't know who is here, and who isn't and what they're saying and what they're doing. And, you know, to help enrich my life. And so I start I just unsubscribed from everything, I did a mass unsubscribe, I use a tool I can't remember. I think it was like, ans i think it might have been called unsubscribe. And I just went through one one day, it took me like four or five hours and went through and did that. And now I'm subscribing to things that are meaningful, that have purpose that are creating and enriching my life. And, and I look forward to reading them. i They come to my inbox and I'm like, oh, oh, that's today. They that came today that I'm excited about that. Not? Ah, why are you sending this to me again. And like, I'm not going to unsubscribe, because I don't have time. But please, just once a week, we don't have to do it, like every 10 minutes, you know, and so I just I want things that really like juice me up. And I know that everyone out there is the same way. So how are you going to juice another person up? Well do it from a, you know, try to be vulnerable. Try to give them a little sense of who you are and what you want to talk about. And don't do it. Because you're, you're trying to upsell like don't use vulnerability as your on ramp to the sale, you're like, this is actually like let's get to know each other. Let's give, give, give, give, give, give, give, give give, before we ever get and actually create so much, you know, so much education and value that that someone's saying, Oh my God, I feel like I know this person, I feel like I resonate. And there's such resonance in this person, that they are being real with me and truthful and that they're there, they aren't hitting me over the head with what they want to sell right out of the gate. And so that that really to me that's that's it at least in the b2b world. That's That's how that works. In the b2c world, that's a little bit shorter timeframe, we want to we want to snuggle up to the value proposition little faster. So it's still the same, but it's just a little bit faster. 24:03 So can you kind of dive into though what a human marketing funnel is? Because people might hear that and like, I think in my mind, I think of something but what is your marketing funnel in your in your position? 24:16 Oh, that's a great question I wrote about that on my website. The human marketing funnel is, is when you're keeping everything organized in a way that you can you can help to maintain more connection in someone else's life. And this is using like a CRM or you know, a piece of technology that's going to help you to connect deeper. When somebody I think I said this at one point when you feel seen, there's nothing greater on Earth. I mean it maybe there's a couple things we won't mention for the because it's probably PG rated. But there's a couple of things that really don't match up to that. And so, you know, I would say that When you start to really hear and see and understand someone else, and then you show up and you, you show them that you are listening, you show them in a way that they go, Oh my God, how did you remember that? How did you? You remember that conversation? You remember meeting me a year ago Are you remember like that, that that product that I bought from you, and you actually care that I bought your product. And not only do you care, but you're like asking my opinion, and you're creating a conversation with me, you know, God, God willing people create actual conversations and follow up and say, I want to hear more from you and hear about you not from not about me and let me sell you like being seen if you just use that in in your CRM tool or in whatever marketing tools that you're using. So that you can collect more information and be there for them and show them that you care. That's that is the human marketing funnel. The other way around is just the funnel. And that's me sending out one or two or more emails and text messages and everything else to say, Look at me, look at me, look at me Look at me, and oh, look at my case study and then look at what I did for someone else. And then look over here, and it's bouncing you around. It's literally called bouncing, if you know anything about a funnel, and you're bouncing people left, right and center. By the way, I did this. And I'm really sorry, to everyone who's listening to this, I did this at one point in my life, because I thought that was the only way you could mark it. After a certain while after I had my agency. I was like, I'm gonna try this internet marketing stuff. And man did I feel like not not good about myself. And so, you know, there's a difference in bouncing people around to look at you and bounce and actually getting to know people and using marketing so that you can collect information for good not for bad. 26:56 Yeah, I want. One thing that that brought brought to mind is the one thing that I do is, I have a Facebook group with my clients. And whenever I see my clients name a lot, I recognize their name, and usually the friend request me. So if I recognize their name, and it's just something that if I recognize your name, I know their client, or maybe even a past client, I'll, if I see their birthday, I'm like, boom, it's had a birthday man. And like, it's one thing I go through, I make a personal thing of myself that I used to go check his birthday, it is see if anybody have certainly my clients and I'll call them out and say happy birthday to them. And I don't have any automation to that it's just me, effect effectively trying to connect with my, with my with my people. And I've heard a lot of like, I haven't, like nested and people haven't told me directly that they like that. It's just I've heard it through connections of connections. They appreciate this being told to Happy Birthday on their birthday. 27:47 Yeah, in a real way. Right. Like, like, you know, you really actually reached out and did that. And, and that made a huge difference. And I think, you know, being top of mind is, is there's something to be said about that and showing up. When you're not there to ask for something like that. How many people in your life show up when they they start showing up again? And you're like, Oh, that's weird. I haven't seen you in a while. And then all of a sudden, they go, Hey, can you do this for me? And you're like, oh, man, I so thought that you're excited to get to be like near me again. But now all of a sudden I get it. You're like, Do you know what? Let's not do that anymore. Let's actually just show up for showing up sake. And actually create a connection, recreate relationships, that means something. And then when it's time when you go, Hey, by the way, I have this thing coming up. And it makes sense like to reach out in order to say something like, Hey, I'd love to have you as part of this. Here's what I love. And would you want to be a part of that? That makes sense. But not, not not for sale say connection for sale sake is horrible. We just it's a dirty thing. Not doing it. 28:57 Please, please. And I percent agree like I try. Like it's such a such like a hard line to cross. Because like, at some point, you're like, you're trying to get business but real time. Like, I don't want to do it this way. I don't want to go about it this way. So yeah, do you have any other tips around going like doing it different ways? Because a lot of people like, like for me, I had a I was in a real estate sales client where a family or a family member passed away so I heard about paying and passed away so I sent them flowers. So it was like Is it like key things like that it's just active listening to situations like that. 29:36 It is active listening. And, you know, there's there's there's also just actually listening, like actually sitting in a conversation just listening. And, you know, I can tell you're a great listener and, you know, if we weren't doing an interview this direction, I actually enjoy having a conversation with you because I think you know, there's there's read different levels of listening. And most people sit in one in level one, which is why they have a challenge and, and it creates a really hard time for people to connect. Level one is when you're not listening, you're actually thinking about what you're going to something else. And you're you're like so off in the distance you're you're there, you could regurgitate what I said. I'm not saying that you're not like actually present or here. But, but but people who are listening right now to this are probably going, Oh, my God, I just got caught. And don't worry, I'm not calling you out. It's just what we do. As level one listeners we are constantly trying to do to two or more things at once. Like we think multitasking is possible. But it's not. The more focused and the more present we are, the more joy we have in our life more purpose and, and love and deep rich like conversations. And we can actually get more done, there's more productivity that we can get done by just doing one thing and staying present that one thing at a time. So level two is when you're listening to the other person, but you're thinking about what you're going to say next. And that is a hard one for people. Now, there's nothing wrong with that. Because you know what, especially if you're in a podcast interview, you have to think about what you're going to say next. So level two is a good place to be. Also, if you're in a conversation with somebody, and you don't know them very well, we tend to be in a level two listening, because we're locked in on what we just what they're saying. But we're gonna think like, what's the next thing I can ask based upon what they're saying, and you're thinking, and you're overwhelmed, and all that kind of stuff. So there's lots of Level Two going on, it's a great place to be. But the ultimate, the ultimate is when you're in level three. And that's where you're listening to someone and, and they have, you have no idea what you're gonna say, next are what you're gonna ask next, because you're just listening, you're just seriously intently focused on what you're doing. And most people doing listening to this right now have just got, they're like, Oh, my God, I got found out. And now they're in level three, and they're like, like this and like, Oh, my God, no, level two is okay, level two and level three are just fine. It's just that when you want to make a relationship deeper, level three is where you want to be. So. So try that out. Try being in a conversation with somebody in a level three, ask some powerful questions that gets them to go deeper. And then stay in that level three, don't think about what you're going to say next, know that when it's your time to speak, you'll have no problem coming up with what you're going to ask because it's so interesting, because you're locked in on what they're saying. And you're going to be like, Oh, well, what did you mean by that? Or how does that make sense? If you're talking about this, because you're actually caring about what they're saying, you won't have a problem coming up with the next question. 32:45 This is a like, I've got you got me. Now, because like it for everybody here, you get you get better at this like I was, I think I'm okay, at podcasting. It's because I've done it, I exercise that muscle a lot. So I like I think I do a lot of active too. But when I really get into a conversation, I think I step into three a lot. And Level Level two is like it depends. And I always like to frame that conversation whenever I speak to, to new people or not, because I'm like, Okay, if I if I if I'm talking to somebody who's never done podcasting before, asked to be in level two, level two, level two speaking, or level two, questioning level two listening, should I say, my level two listening the whole time because I always have to frame and lead on the conversation. Whereas if I, if I'm talking to people that understand how these things go, I'm always in level three. And that's where I like being at. So for everybody listening, I hope you all took notes, because that was, it was interesting to hear it. Because I for me, like I knew I know what I do, but I don't necessarily I can't frame it like that. So I appreciate that. That way and man laying it all out there because it's it's hard for people to understand what I do, actually. But that was wonderful. That was perfect. Man that was that was good. That was good. I like I like this conversation because it's it's throwing me off now. 34:16 That's not my intent. The intent is not to throw you off. So I thank you I know what you're saying. And and, and and I apologize and I three i i love that I love it when people come across this and they go that makes them reflect because you know we can change in a heartbeat we can we can move from a level to a level you have the ability to just just but the hard thing is that we have to observe ourselves. We have to see ourselves from the outside looking in and most most of the time we're not we're we're surrounded by situation where we're caught up in what's what we're thinking too much and that thinking is what gets us in trouble. And the monkey mind really starts to mess with you. And when you're in a monkey mind status, man, then all of a sudden you're like, oh, there's no way out, what am I going to do? And then you throw out some random question. They're like, what does that have to do with what we're talking about, or you're not going into a certain direction that you want to go in, in life? Because you're you're thinking, you know, your saboteur is coming up, and it's messing with your monkey mind, and so on, you're not enough, you're not doing enough, you aren't being enough. And so these are the things that are actually creating a problem and dissonance in your own mind, meaning the problem is, whoever's listening you. You're the problem. I'm sorry, but we we have to take control and immediately observer of ourselves and know that, that the answer? And sorry, I'm gonna go all Buddha on you. And I got when I got a Buddha here in the background, but that's not why we have to, we have to know that that presence, that presence is key to everything. Like when you're present, and you're not thinking about the next thing, you're not thinking about tomorrow, you're not thinking about your plans, you're not thinking about, like, oh my god, did I ask the right thing they did? Did they know that I didn't really listen to what they said. They don't know. But who cares? You might wake up, you might not wake up tomorrow, tomorrow might be today might be your last day. Sorry, this is not I don't mean to take it into a morbid place. But celebrate right now, be present. And that's right there being present with someone else is going to make you step out in and be a totally different person, you're going to show up in ways that you never thought possible, and your monkey mind will go away. And you'll start to see listening, the power of Level Three listening will show up in a new way. And you'll be there for the other person, they're going to be like, Wow, I want to do that. Again, when I have conversations with more people like that. 36:50 It's a the power, more powerful conversation, the more like, you can solidify that relationship in such a short amount of time. Like it doesn't take multiple conversations or years of, of connecting with that one person, if you have a meaningful conversation. One good minute for competition can build that relationship. 37:11 I'm going to slow clap that one. There is a slow clap, like like, yes, yes, yes. And more. Yes. I mean, one, meaning you said it, you said it right there, when meaningful conversation can change everything. It's so beautiful money, and how many do we have really not many. And we can have more, we really could, I mean, those are just waiting for you, all you need to do is just be there in level three, be present, and have more. 37:43 So one thing I struggle with is, I can do this in a business setting, but I struggle personally. It's so weird. And I like and I'm being I'm being 100% serious right now, I struggle with this on with personal relationships. But in business, it's like, it's like second nature. 38:02 You know, you're not alone. The people that I coach are, are right there with you. They have the same challenge in either it's usually either personal or business and, and they're good at one, not the other. And I'm here to tell you that it's the same thing. It's just that our saboteur messes with us more in one situation than in the other. And so, you know, well, how you when you show up to those situations. You know, I asked you, when you show up to those situations, and you're in that moment, and you're having whether it's a conversation or you're, you know, at a place where you're you're not feeling like you're totally 100% there, like you're not 100% on the way that you are in business. What is the way that you're talking to yourself? 38:54 I'm always distracted. Yeah, that's what it is. 38:59 Yeah, and I don't know is the distraction, something another voice that you're like, Oh, are you pinballing? Or 39:08 are you 100% In Bali? 39:11 Yeah. Yeah. And so, here's here's a way that you, you can get present like take so are you pinballing right now at all, like Be honest with me, is there any kind of pinballing or is that are you pretty present? I'm pretty present right now. Okay, so think to a time when you are pinballing and this goes for everybody that's listening like just think think of a time that you're a pinball and like You're like like really think it through like what was a good you don't have to tell me just think about it. And really just lock in on that moment and try to really embody it like get your body and your mind like into that pinball kind of like, Oh, crap moment, like are you know, are you there? Are you close to being there? Can you feel it? Yeah. Okay, so, So now imagine the things that you're saying or the way that you're being and How you are like, Can you can you feel that in your body? Yeah, yeah. And where do you feel it in your body? Like, where are you feeling that that kind of tight? Is it tight? Or is it like nervous? Or are you just kind of like, like, all over the place? Like what's going on? 40:17 Like, like, movement? Okay, my hands 40:22 move. Okay, great. Great. All right, so you're in that state, you're there, right? Now I can tell unfortunately, I just got you there. And, and we're gonna get you out like, immediately. So you become the observer, okay? Because when you can observe it, then all of a sudden, you can get yourself back into this place. So just take your hands and put your fingertips together all five fingers against all five other fingers, like you're about to pray, but we're not going to pray. And then I'm going to have you actually just move your fingers so slowly that I can't see it. And you just feel the ridges of your fingerprints against each other. So that it goes one line at a time and you go a lot, you feel the lines slide, one hand is going up, the other one's coming down. And you just feel line after line after line. Near like, Okay, you feel that? The lines, you gotta do it kind of hard in order to feel this. And you're going so slow, I can't even tell you're doing it. So that's, that's, that's how meditative this can be. Now, while we're doing that, what were you doing? 41:30 Focusing? Yeah, 41:32 welcome, welcome back. See how fast you can do that. 41:38 That's good. That's good. 41:40 So now all of a sudden, you've just became present. Now, how do you feel? If I had more more time, I would walk you through more. But what how did you feel just in that little short time? 41:53 I feel I feel clearer. I feel clearer for sure. 41:59 Yeah, it's because we took your focus off of everything else, we quieted your voice and gave it something physical to focus on. And now all of a sudden, you just were so intently focused on just yourself. And we're very tactile, we're both audio and tactile. So when we start to feel something tactile, it takes that, that second voice away, and we start to focus on that now all of a sudden, we're back and we're present again. 42:27 That was really good. That was good. I appreciate that. 42:29 You got 42:31 to do that one for myself. Again. What is a quote that is yours or somebody else's that you resonate with? 42:38 90% done is 100% incomplete. I love I love it. But I didn't say it. My mentor have now over 20 years said that to me in I think maybe near my first day of my first job out of college, and it stuck with me that I need to complete when I start. And I didn't always do that. I still haven't always done that. But I work hard to do it. And I think that a lot of times we don't believe in ourselves or others in some way that we our saboteur comes in. And we don't get to complete the thing that we really want to either start, and we don't ever start it. Or we don't complete it. We started but don't don't get to actually 100% and what is not 100% That's that's the, you know, so we have to define all those things and really focus in on them. 43:29 Yeah, I think it's some people it's like the one like one of the not one of the big stuff that the big struggle, but it's one big struggle that entrepreneurs face is like never, never completing anything. There you go. So I'm glad you mentioned that. Where can people find you online? I know we got the brand kramer.com/newsletter and Brian Cramer on Instagram. I really appreciate the conversation because I think it's it's not these aren't like regular everyday conversations that people have. Just not so. 44:03 You got it? Well, then I'm happy that we had an uncommon conversation. I hope we have more uncommon conversations because we could use more of them in the world. And and that's, you know, that's Brian cramer.com. You have it up on the screen here. If you go to the newsletter and sign up I do reply back to everyone that replies to my newsletters. I tried to create engagement that's my number one KPI and if you look at anything on social Brian crap Brian Kramer Brian with a why Kramer the K. And that's that's the best way to get a hold of me. Yeah, you can even email me, Brian at Brian. 44:41 Brian and Brian kramer.com. And can you say what your two books again? And we're again? 44:45 Yeah, my first books. There's no b2b or b2c? It's h two h human to human. And my second book is share ology, how sharing powers the human economy and work in my third book, which is the sequel to HGH. And that's been To be focused on trust. 45:02 There you go. Go check them out. I appreciate your time. Thanks for Thanks for the human connection we made today. And hope everybody out there will share that human connection with somebody else today. Presumably coming on. We'll see you on the next episode. Thanks for coming, Brian. 45:16 Hey, thank you. I really appreciate all the great questions in the time with you Cheers, man.