Come hive with us!!!
May 27, 2022

Ep 190- Logan Fullmer: 200 Real Estate Transactions A year, $7MM In Escrow

Ep 190- Logan Fullmer: 200 Real Estate Transactions A year, $7MM In Escrow
Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
YouTube Channel podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player badge
Amazon Music podcast player badge
Google Podcasts podcast player badge
iHeartRadio podcast player badge

210-972-1842: Text "Hive" to get added to weekly meetings, text "course" to learn how to make 6 figures on one land deal.

Sign up at

Follow Us On YouTube

Follow Us On Instagram

Follow Us On TikTok

Join The FB Group

Help support the show

--- Support this podcast:

--- Support this podcast:


Welcome, welcome. Welcome to today's show, we have a special guest, Logan Folmer. Little quick intro to loving Folmer. He's done over 200 transactions annually. And he has set to close to seven half million dollars in deals this month. So he's doing some crazy, crazy numbers and some crazy, crazy business. So if you guys have any questions, this is live right now. And we're gonna bring up some questions later on, but just want to do a brief introduction on getting Folmer we here I have her today Anthony gonna, and Logan foamer today. So one of the first things I love asking when we do this interviews is how did you end up in real estate? Because I know you're pre oil, your oil field. So how did you get real estate? We don't go too deep into it, but as far as well. So my mom was a realtor when I was growing up. And my dad was a CPA. So I you know, he'd always talked to me about finances about people making money. And my mom was always talking about real estate. So it was kind of neat. The money stuff and the real estate. They're all there in the household. made sense to me. That's how people make money. So I got in the oil business, and it was working and saving and started buying little piece of real estate. I thought man, I'm gonna go for broke here. And, you know, didn't go broke when you start so I've been about 10 years to 2012 is when I really started getting into it. I got a couple of rent houses at that time. I did a couple of flips. I realized I didn't actually know I did the flips first a couple flips on there, and we did good. We met on a $50,000 house, or no, let's see, we've had like 35,000 but 15 repairs and stuff like 70 grand we made like 20 grand on this long time ago. We did another one did okay. After a couple of minutes. Right. But we just we realized we were undercapitalized ma'am. And we didn't have a ton of experience either. I was like, nervous. We needed more money to do these deals, in our opinion at that point. So then I went to the oilfield. And that's where I made the money. And then I started kind of easing back into it. That's cool, man. I didn't know that you that you were actually in real estate before you went to the way if I didn't renew that I made like three or four houses, if that counts is in real estate that counts. So my dad got sick. I was living with him trying to take care of him and help him and stuff. And I was like, Let's do these deals. And it was a try. I don't know, I'd say I was in real sale did a couple accounts better than better than in my book? I have that construction background with like zero state. So yeah, I'm still the new kid. So looking around, like What the hell's going on here? Right. So if anybody doesn't know, I did my very first deal with Logan and Ryan. I just posted online and I posted in roughneck to real estate, shout out to Korean roughneck group. And it's like, hey, I want to buy that deal that you posted in that group? Can you go back and delete it? And I'm like, Huh, okay, whatever, a brand new month, and I'm like, Alright, League Soccer guy said he's gonna buy it, I believe. So. Yeah. I've learned a lot from you guys. Obviously, lots of trust. They're usually like anything they told me to do. I'm just like, Yeah, I'm just gonna do it. It served me well. So yeah, Logan has a good name in the game. So yeah, man, we're excited to do this interview. So tell us how do you go from is just easing back into closing $7 million in a month? Like, what does that look like? What's the transition? Like? You know, see, we can fast forward a little bit to kind of get to the meat and potatoes of it. Yeah, I think so. It's interesting, man. I thought about this a little bit more in the last couple of years, because the way I've been running, this business has just looked different. So I got to think of consistent themes kind of that remain throughout this process. And I was always looking for a little bit better deal a little bit smarter way to do business a little way away to get a little bit better return on the investment. And I always have the constraints of what the capital that I had or the knowledge I had at the time. So all of the time capital would expand because I would heavily reinvest or save, and knowledge would expand just so as each of those expanded, we just kept stretching and stretching right at the edge of where those were. Yes, it started out really buying some vacant land on the east side of San Antonio. And then I started buying some foreclosures, those were great. You could buy me to do a remodel and sell it or you could literally either a lot of times our monitors put for sale sign in the yard the next day and sold them and make good money without doing constructions on them. They change the locks, dude, it's nuts. So I liked those deals. But from there, it started to get harder because you couldn't get the foreclosure deals anymore. So I'm thinking, dude, what do I do now I need a better I still need to find good deals. And I've done a couple that were troubled deals just had lots of owners title problems, just code liens, all kinds of crap. And, and I remember looking back at the end of it, because 2017 Maybe the market started to get a little bit hotter. At this point, I was looking at saying, God, where did I get my best deals, I remember looking at the ones that were all completed messes. And I remember those are the biggest spreads. So I thought, Okay, I think we should try to focus on these if that plaster telling people I want the messy ones, I want the troubled ones, I want the hard ones. And I started marketing for those the ones are really behind on taxes, the ones that had Liz pendants is filed away in records, lots of like erroneous documents, you see all these masters and sales go after that, from there start to grow, you know, I would do it because autoinjector by these cash can't use any lending, because you can't get a title insurance policy because they're tied Abrahms so my cash $50,000 la ad dollars nor house lower price stuff. And as I started to learn how to resolve those start to build more confidence, because you're gonna rip this check and hope you're gonna fix it. And finally, at this point, I realized we're fixing the 98% of them. Everyone's all run into problem or you really don't think we can fix it or it's not worth fixing. Most times it's working to start it up in the end. $200,000 Deal $300,000 Deal, million dollar deal. And the biggest one that now I have is 3.2 million. Wow, nice dude, are these all? Are you? So even if you move into these larger ranks? Are you still following problems properties? Or are you just now starting to go into more like any route. Now, they all still have problems. They're just different problems. You know, one of them had a terrible tenant, the owner of the property had sold the business to the business that was in that property, he sold the business to another operator, and then a new operator was running his business in there, and he was paying rent. The tenant was screwing up, he gotten behind. And then the guy that owned the real estate and started having problems, his personal life, he was personally behind those taxes, the tenant wasn't paying him so he couldn't pay his bills. And he didn't resolve it quickly. So it's deeper and deeper and deeper. But when you got a tenant in there, you don't just say get out, you have to see the people in a commercial situation, usually they don't leave. And these people had tons of plant equipment, tons of inventory. I mean, you ain't just moving out like an overnight deal. I mean, you're this to move this business about a $70,000 move. Wow. And these dudes are already behind on their $23,000 rent. So they get out by Friday. Do just wanted to just talk to him and run like to just avoid having to deal with all that, right. And I've been working on this dude for two years, finally gave in, he beat me up on the sales price a little bit, but it was still well within the range. So I closed on it. And I basically just let this tenant, keep failing and keep failing. And when they got far enough behind, that's when I started to do the lockout deal, and then start sending them notices. So I took nine months on that one, you had to really go out. But the issue is, you gotta watch out, because if you sue them while you're doing this, I plan on selling the real estate, I didn't plan to keep it anyway, I got a great deal on I'm gonna sell it make good money. So the whole time they had they finally hired an attorney and I thought, if I see these guys they're gonna fall is penance against the property, although they shouldn't, they'll still do it and the judge will let it stay and the property is locked up. I can't go sell it get my real money, while I'm fighting within 100 grand and rent and taxes. And the end of the building. Yeah, I let the idiots leave without selling at the moment. So I helped them pack up. They packed up on quite a bit of it. I got guys out there hauling the rest of their crap out right now I'm paying for it. But I'm running a tab. I got a buyer for the building. It's in contract to sell right now. Once they close on it, and by then I'm gonna see the tenant. So it'll be six months. It'll be two months, three months after they finished moving out. So they'll get hit later. But I gotta dispose of the real estate so they can't lock up my sale. Smart man. Yeah. Yeah. That kind of stuff can happen on real estate, commercial stuff, bigger stuff. It can happen on ranches, it can happen on mineral rights, it can happen on any of that big, big and small, it's just the bigger ones are more expensive and more risks and they usually move slower. So you really got to be you know, work your way up to it. That is that's crazy. That is awesome, dude. I think anybody that knows you or has known you long enough knows that you spend a little bit of time in court. You want to kind of go into that and tell us what that looks like. Like on the on the purchase side or the sell side like things you should probably Avoid, look out for places where you've got stuck before. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's, it's it, the strategy is there is designed to resolve a problem. If you can't get that problem fixed negotiating, you're gonna end up having to get in front of a judge. And there's always a solve there, there really is, the tough part is that patterns are never what folks think they are. So you really got to understand what you're getting into and understand the risks. Even when you're right. And you 99% think you're right, your attorney tells you, you're perfectly right and all this, that doesn't mean the litigation is gonna shake out the way you want, there might be all kinds of facts that you didn't know, didn't understand. And you wind up making mistakes or have made mistakes in the process. So just get started this whole fight doesn't mean you're always going to win it. Now. If you're measuring your risk, and you're really careful, and you have good advice along the way, nine out of 10 times, you should prevail, especially if it's if it's a business purpose, you know, it's not just you're angry at a business partner, and you're gonna see because you're an asshole kind of thing. And you want to be if it's, if it's pride and ego related and getting real trouble. It was a business case, she got better odds because you're measuring your risk. But most of the time, there's a big problem 80% or 90% of the time or higher, we get a result by just negotiating with people not being knuckleheads. But human, I don't want to deal with this where you saw us have to go a long way. On several crazy people, one of the two of the prior owners, I think took a year and a half. I think we did a lawsuit, I can't remember I know we did an eviction, we had a lot of slow play. And there are some times you really want to speed up, put the gas on there, put the heat on everybody. And sometimes you want to roll slow. So if you're really trying to put the heat on, even if you don't know if the lawsuits gonna go all the way. Sometimes you still want to file and get it going because that lets people know you're serious. Everybody comes to the table with their evidence and their Ask, and you really start negotiating hard or you litigate a little bit, get some of the facts out, and then see all right, how does your claim stack up next to mine? Now let's negotiate knowing what we know because one person's gonna have a lot more leverage. Sometimes that's the right answer. Or sometimes it's just rolling slow. Yeah, man, that was a nice I was on the back burner for a while we're not in the back burner, but it took a little while right somebody almost got hit with a bow and arrow on that one, didn't they? Somebody got assault charges that was in the property. Yeah, man. There was those guys were making drugs using drugs. Yeah. Want to kill each other that shit was nuts. It was a gun involved a crossbow. Quick, yeah, find like some real estate investors want things quick, easy and cheap. All these deals are slow, hard and expensive to rezone. But when it's done, you get a better deal. We all we JV even if you remember, we JV with the current owner of that one to help clear up the claim title claim the cloud on the title. We gave you two with him, we paid him a split. You brought us the deal. You out of split, and then we got a split for making the dealer. And I think we all walked away. Feeling good about what we got out of it based on what we've all brought to the table. Heck, yeah. Now that was awesome, man. So are you still like publicly pushing for these types of deals now? Or are you going a different route? Or what do you think? Yeah, I do talk about it. And we get a lot of referrals from that stuff. And we're still looking for stuff with issues. We just gotten better at sizing up the problems and, and being able to ascertain, we think this is the one that's more solvable or not, because we've just been through so many now. But now that's awesome. And yeah, cuz I didn't want to push more stuff like that your way if you weren't looking for it, because I know some of those getting ready. But yeah, I mean, like, I'm probably your best, like I witnessed because every time I see something that looks messy, I don't even slow down, man. Like I kind of know what to do on a lot of this stuff. But I just push it straight to you guys. I'm like, you can have it you guys figure it out. Just give me whatever you think it's kind of funny, too. Because on our very first deal, I remember you guys asking me that, like, hey, what do you need to make on this? And I'm like, Just give me whatever, whatever you think whatever. Yeah, and it's still to this day, when I send you guys something I'm like, I don't know, just whatever. I just know, you guys are gonna take care of me. Because I guess you can measure like, you can measure how big the problem is gonna be. And I can't and it's easier for me to just throw it to you guys and just keep on moving. So yeah, that's pretty awesome to have a connection like that. Yeah, absolutely. So one thing we kind of mentioned that before this is now you're kind of like a manager now you've kind of built out your teams. And you made a post today that you're looking for a hot new hire. How big is your team gotten and how has expanding past like the real estate business because now you're not actually in the day to day? You have people for that? How's it How does it positioning yourself onto that manager position? Well, my office includes about 15 people now. Here are a couple of partners here and then we've got so Minister Alright, have we got some lead gen and some dispo, folks, and then some transaction transactional folks that are dealing with contracts dealing with title a lot, whether it be an asset, we're purchasing and reselling, whether it be something we're buying key, whether it be in the wholesaling business. So about 15 or so that's about as big as this organization really needs to get. I don't know that we're really going to need a whole time more people, a few more acquisition people. But I think we've built out enough infrastructure that we can do a lot more deals and renewing, at this point is just knowledge and capital. And I think that's our growth pattern, really, we really have the people we need, I don't know what you mean anymore. So that's nice. That's good to know. And then the last six or eight months, you really been working on just strategy, where deals are coming from what we're doing with Capital Management Plan, you got to have a lot of runway, like we were talking earlier, we really have to plan how this is going to work. Because if you're locking locking capital for a month, it's not that bad. If you're going to lock it up for six months, or 12 months or intermittent times, you really have to have a kind of a waterfall plan to when you're spending this. And when it's coming back in to make sure that it balances otherwise, you'll get stuck in a cash flow crunch. And any growing business has to think about these things. Some folks that are leveled, they don't because they're kind of expected and consistent and all that. But if you're trying to grow you better. So that's, that's important. That's what I've been working on a lot there. In terms of the management stuff. Yeah, think of different things, you know, I'm really trying to look at some of the other partners I've got and some of the other businesses we have and say how can I affect them to help them be successful, someone that talks, it's talking about their own personal finances, sometimes it talks about how they're managing their day to day. And sometimes it talks about, you know, what kind of training they're giving the folks in their company, it's a whole different, whole different look, or you haven't spent a lot of time working on this new office plan, bought an office got a bunch of tenants in there were remodeling and stuff like that. And that takes a ton of work. But it's preparing another 5000 square foot for my people to get into in January. You know, that stuff I got to do while they're doing what they're doing. So that's kind of my contribution to help putting, you know, the feet under. Yeah, yeah, when you gotta be the legs. For a lot of people, that's where things get heavy, right, or maybe another thing you don't think of so in the last two years, we started using a little bit more credit lines with banks, after built some some time and some going concern and some financials, the banks around and said, Hey, we offer you a fair amount of credit line. So it's nice because you've got our resources. And then we've got some extra there with with the local lenders. But what that requires is financials have to be produced on a regular basis, they have to be clean, you got to take a minute explain because our business is changing so rapidly, this financial relative to six months ago might look radically different. So I'm going to go in there, explain why people might today and keep them comfortable that these credit lines I have extended to us are still safe. And what we're doing with their money is still what they want us or feel good about doing. So that stuff is happening. While somebody's over here in the field cutting a deal with somebody right now, I'm doing that to make sure they got capital behind them when they eat that contract. Got to be able to put the deal together whenever you need that capital available. Are you finding like more successful using like local banks? Or? Yeah, I mean, if you try to go to like a Wells Fargo or chase or something, you know, those guys aren't really taken for businesses that you would call us, we would be still a small business relative to some, you know, tuner million dollar, you know, credit facility type deal. Yeah. Yeah, when you get to those kinds of guys, they want a different a different level of financial. And you know, a lot of small to midsize businesses don't have that. But a lot of the local lenders will do it, you know, they've got certain size clients that they like, you might have a local bank that only has 100 million in capital total, and you want to million dollar credit line, well, that's 2% of their total available credit. So you can do that. And that's not bad for them. But when you got to also getting those kinds of credit lines available as a whole heck of a lot easier with a local bank than it is with like a chase, for example. I don't, those are tough to deal with. So how does somebody established a relationship with a local bank like that? Do you have to just go on there? And just is it a blind for a credit line? Based on your financials, you start with a like a credit card? Or how do you even start a relationship with a bank like that? You know, we started with accounts there. And we operate for a couple years and they could see our accounts, we'd use them we'd grow on there, lots of deposits, and the accounts are getting better and better. And of course, then we had financials, it started to look better. So after a couple of years, it started in conversations with the guys that were running that branch on top of their credit, commercial credit department and we say Hey, this is what we're doing. This is what our books look like just start opening up conversation with them and telling them Look, we're interested in commercial credit with you on the near term. And we start Oh, something tiny, relatively tiny, 100 grand, not a ton. We had 30 people personally guarantee it, and everybody had good financial. So they were thinking of these three, if they default one of these boneheads and get the money. neat thing is we always had some real estate, we have not had to pledge the real estate back because they believe that we could make good on that debt with or without collateral. So we started there. And then you operate for a year and you draw a credit line, we use it and we pay it back quickly. And we use it extended for a month, six weeks, pay it back, but we are always taking it out putting it back. But we're making sure to get that things as hot. So they would see we're good stewards of that debt. If you were to get that. Maybe that you get that credit facility, Olson, you draw out 100 grand instantly, you don't pay it back for nine months. They're happy to get their interest, but they're looking at like, Damn, what do you do with this money? Is he using this to pay the bills? Like why he cycling it? Yeah. So we'd be healthy users of it. And then after six months or a year, we'd come back, say you want to update a little bit? And we just kind of slowly work it up that way. Wow. What type of interests are they giving you in general, when you first start, so that's the cool part, the interest rate, it's either your credit worthy or not, it wasn't like, they're gonna give you the credit line, but it's a higher rate. So for us I started at. So this was 2018, we started at 6% was our first one. And then it went down to four. And then as low as it was a year ago, it was at 3.3. So that's a neat, that's the neat thing about using these kinds of banks with a credit worthy person or business, your interest rates are not much above prime, Mr. Hair bank keeps a little difference. And that's it relative to like a private money lender who wants a 10 12% plus points. So if you have a 3% credit line, let's say it's just 100 grand for easy numbers. $3,000 a year, let's $300 A month 400 grand, that's free. The rates have gone up now since we started get these interest rates. I think I'm pushed I think I'm at 5%. Now is what it is because our rates are climbing right now. Oh, man, that's terrible. It's a big difference. But relative doesn't matter. No, I mean, and he talked about that, too, as the cycle of money, if you can, if you can continuously give a return on money, doesn't matter what type of asset or doing it with the money just gets cheaper when you can return that money no matter what. Yeah, it's crazy. It's always been like this, the people that need the money to least get it the most. And at the best rates, it's very low risk. And I just recently heard that phrase is when you need the money, and nobody wants to give it to you, when you don't need it. Everybody wants to give it to you. They know you're gonna pay it back. So I've encouraged a lot of folks, you know, there's some guys that have built a huge business around private capital. And I don't think it's a bad way to go. It's fast and easy relative the bank, the bank is slow and troublesome, and you have to jump through a lot of hoops. But when it's done, man, it's it's very low cost. And it's relatively easy once you're up and running. Well, I think we should change gears now. Right? Didn't we come together here today to talk about leads? Yes. Yes. So what is your lead source for troubled troubled leads? Because I I've heard this before, but I think now you're kind of doing a little bit of variety of different types of leads. So what's your main source of now? So there are two sections, I guess I'll break the business into two. We've got our wholesaling business. And then we have our business where we're buying assets, maybe they're gonna be rentals, maybe they're gonna be just flips, we resell them something like that, but something we're intending on buying. And those still are non owner occupants and delinquent on tax if they're out of town, like out of state owners, they're usually better. But those are the three best items I can find for your best deal. They don't care they will live there they're already behind a little bit. It's not like they got to move out of the place all you got to do is just sign a contract and it's easy. So those are some of my favorites we pull that will pull it out from the tax authority in for like 200 bucks and get the entire Excel list. Yeah, and we put it in a couple of times it's that's a pretty big file to mess with but let me go through there and clean all that stuff. Right But beneath the feet, you can you know, we started out doing that stuff just in bear County. Those were easy. You know, now we're at the point where we just recently for the wholesaling business pulled a lead list that includes so golly how to basically we took our 35 from Oklahoma to Mexico, and we drew 60 miles west 60 Miles e so it's 120 While my mile wide band from a woman to Mexico Every county that was in that band, we put them on the list. And we purchased a huge custom data set. And that's the that's the data set that we're using for the wholesaling business. So we'll peel out about 100,000 leads of that per month, and send it through the cold callers. And then they'll cycle that 100,000 Li dama, the next month, we'll pull it out 100,000 of that list, that should be enough, leads that whole dataset for 12 months. Yeah, Lee was the total number on that pool. Do you know? No, I don't know. It was always filtered. We included certain sizes of ranch land, and multifamily is like over two units. Less than 40 units, I think is what it was somewhere in that range. I remember we had some trouble picking certain ranges. So there were some counties that we could just get multifamily. And there's gonna be stuff that's outside of our range when you're casting this wide of a net. You know, you don't want your filter to be too tight. Yeah. Well, that, by me telling you that that tells you that we're doing a fair amount of the multifamily. Yeah. So so that's how those leads will come in very, very raw. So we'll get that. And filtration is pretty slim. But when they go in the cold callers, cold callers will call through those leads. And their job is not to get a bunch of good information. Their job is do you want to sell yes or no? And if they say anything other than No, that's a warm lead, we sent in through the CRM from the cold callers to our actual office with live in person acquisitions, folks, bring us. Right? If they say maybe I'm thinking about it, heck, yes, anything other than that comes into us. So that's where we take that prospect and turn into warm and that's when we qualified your warm lead. So now it's a warm lead. Now it's in our CRM. So that's we have an acquisition person, one of the four in there. On our column. Hey, you just talked to John, he said you might have some interest in selling a six Plex in New Braunfels. Let's talk a little bit more about that. And they're trying to get close. Very nice, man. That's a cool system you have I imagine you guys are combing through a lot of leads. So we're starting to come across that now. You know, Hive is starting to get a little decent name. So people are reaching out to us from all over the country and sending us stuff like, Hey, I think I have a lead here. I have this. Yes. So we're trying to systematize that inbound lead flow in the, I guess four people could probably handle it. But we're still trying to piece that together. So can you tell us what that looks like? Like handling inbound leads? Is it just kind of go like Round Robin to each person? Or does somebody specialize in these different types of lead? And then I think, a lot of time underwriting or running comps, you know, how does that go? Is that in house too. So that was get over that's, that's in house. And you've got to figure out how to do it really quickly. So some of the guys in our office, I noticed were really, really good at assessing value, and really quickly and saying, it's in the ballpark or it's not. And if it's not move on really quickly. You know, there's some guys in the office that would spend all day looking at two or three leads and trying to like find every perfect comp and all these details. And there's another person who would burn through 10 or 15 of them in a day and like go boom, boom, boom. And I started to find the person who's burning through them quickly is getting far more contracts, because they got more looks. Yeah. But so there would be four cold callers and three acquisitions, people on that team. So the four cold callers are generating those warm leads, getting rid of the acquisitions, people, those acquisitions, people would look there. And basically decided to cut the deal. And so the low end is about 10 deals a month, the Heinz about 20 deals, and that's kind of the range that we've been falling in with the three people. So that's kind of kind of how that shook out. So each person would get three to five contracts roughly per month. Dang. And that's, that's amazing. So that's what you guys have been running right now. Like 10 to 20 deals a month. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy, though, because I've not yet found a way to stabilize the number to make it like were 1515 1515 just doesn't work like that. I don't know why real estate just seems to be choppy. And unless you have 60 lead gen people, you're not going to get the level that when you only have three, it's like two guys are on ones not your lead flows down where the next one or two are hitting the third one's not but the lead flows way out. It's and that's a big range, you know, range from 10 to 20. It's a 50% jump or 100% job you know, that's the big swing or you'll have these weird times where like a lot of deals are supposed to close in April and like half of them you push them and they'll close the first week of May so throw skews the number dramatically. Yeah, we were just talking about that earlier. Daniel myself like It's like one month, like, we're just looking at Phil's like, we're just firing on all cylinders, and everything's poppin. And then one month, it just goes a little quiet. So we're like, oh, no, we're I guess that's part of cash. And you're like, Yeah, you're like, Did we lose it? Oh, my God, it's gone away. Yeah, that's not an easy solve, man. There are some folks who are doing higher lower margin and much higher volume. And for them, they seem to like that, because when you get a higher volume, it seems to be a little more consistently, it's at least 20 a month. But there's smaller spreads, you know, three, four or five grand. So if you can have a trade off, you have a lot more organizational churn. I don't really want that. I want more efficiency. Yeah, just constant churn. That's, that's not what I like. I think I think what separates you guys, too, is that you're you're doing bigger deals in general. So 10 to 20 deals a month, what 10, you might do 10 deals, the main net 500 grand, but you do 10 deals next month, it's a million, you know, it's the same thing, deal flow. But if you're done messing with the numbers on the skew. So I think for you, it's a little different, because it's the lot deal size bigger, which is good, because you have people will take on any type of deal in general, from any size. That's true, it's taken us longer to figure out how to like Nathan, you're saying to underwrite those, something else, I've noticed, it's a really, just now that we have enough trailing months that business, this wholesale business started last September, doing really well it stayed generally stabilized. And what I noticed is about 50% of the revenue is coming from about 20% of the deals. And other 80% of the revenue is about 20% of the deals so like what that means the average assignment fee is 15 to 17 grand for 80% of those. But the other 20% have big ol honkin fees, I'm talking multiples of that big multiples of that. So there's a large chunk of revenue come from only 20% of the deals. But what I saw, so my first response, as a manager to that is, well, why don't we just do more of those bigger deals and less of the smaller ones. And we tried to shift marketing a little bit that way. And we realize it doesn't work that way, you have to cast a wide net and churn through the small ones, you have to have those conversations. Because those big ones, you can't really focus on those because it doesn't happen that way. They happen to be in those massive lists, and you're basically looking through for a needle in a haystack. And if you don't look through that haystack, and find all the other, hey, you're not going to find the needle too. So you have to be doing for us, you have to be doing the 10 to 15 deals a month to get those extra three or four that are the hoppers. That's exactly what I was doing it backwards. I was going after these giant land deals. And that's why I was only doing you know, 10 deals a year. And then now that we're trying to up our volume, I have a team here we're running deals, and yeah, some of them are 5000 bucks. And I'm like, Hey, guys, trust me. No, the big ones are in here. And sure enough, yeah, you know, we'll get the big nice ones come across too, but you're absolutely right man and I'm just experiencing it now trying to cast a wider net and that's what's kind of what we're trying to catch a rhythm I'm trying to even all that flow out both ingoing and outgoing. Yeah, but the word reason rhythm I guess is a good one to use for that. You're having to really pay attention and watch how things work and and building the businesses one thing but but optimizing it is a whole different ballgame. That's such a good tidbit, man. It's such a good tidbit. Let Can we talk about your your I hate that you sold your office but can you talk about how you found that deal? And like your your whole time for that because I loved your office when I was there and that was last time I saw you in San Antonio. Cover that deal where you how you found it when you purchase price it look now that it's done now, because you've done sold it now? Well, we haven't close it's supposed to close in about two weeks. Oh, man. So Ryan and I were looking at the foreclosure list in 2018. Wintertime it was November, September, November rains. And we're looking at particular zip code where most of the houses were selling for less than 200 grand. And we see one of them for 490 I'm like dang, that's an expensive one. What the heck is there? Is it a commercial building? Is it a big piece of land and this was a smaller infill subdivision right adjoining the pearl and I was like me this is a strange price. So I googled the address and see this big ol historic mansion. And I think Oh, what the heck okay, this is interesting. And I've never done like that before, but I thought well, how do I size this up real quick. So we drive by it and it's just a neat thing and I thought man, let's let's call this guy What the heck are actually Ryan was Was he goes he goes lunches calm. I was like, why not? We've been looking for an office and we thought maybe it's big enough because we were leasing office at the time. So we meet with owner we walked the place. And I'm saying hey, man, are you thinking about selling this? He's like, you know, I kinda have in my mind we'd better do before next Tuesday or the first Tuesday of next month, you know, because that's a foreclosure. But I never told the guy I knew he was in default and news gonna be sold because I knew beyond this, he had some money, I figured there'd be some pride and ego issues there. I didn't talk about the foreclosure, never to this day. So we talked, I made him an offer of here, he owed like, 430, or 440, or something on it. And I offered him 500. That way, there were outstanding taxes if 30 or 40, or something like that. So my estimate was, if he the loan was only two years old, which I thought was strange, so I thought if you pay off the loan path back taxes, you walk with 50 grand, yes, sir. I know that's not really, really high, but that's the best I can do. And he says, Man, I get this architect firm offering me 700. I'm like, that's a good deal, honestly, should take them and I can't do that. So he says, Well, I'm gonna talk to him. We'll see. Thanks for your time, whatever. I call one week later. So this is three weeks. It's like t minus three weeks of foreclosure. So that was the first week we walked in second week before foreclosure, I call them Hey, man, did that offer from the architect firm whenever now still talking to us was to hear back from him this week, week before the foreclosure I call him and he stops answering my calls my typical foreclosure guy. So I call the bank and say, yes, it's a local bank, and he's all still foreclosing. They're like, Oh, yeah, dude, he paid his yet they're pissed. And so we go down the sale. And at that price, you know, they listed the credit bid was 500 490,000 bucks, or no, it was 430. And the taxes come in tow. That's a lot of money. When you're talking about foreclosure for 80 grand, you're willing to take a risk, we're talking about almost 500. As I watched it, go to the lender at the foreclosure sale for the credit that no one did on it. And I went to the bank the next day with a contract was like, Hey, guys, here's a contract. So we cut a deal for 90. So when I paid you let it go to foreclosure. So he would have walked with me with at least 50 grand. Let it go. Did what's the psychology behind that? I don't want to veer too off from that from the story all the way through the sale. But why would do that they're in foreclosure, what the hell happens in their brain, there's like, I'm gonna lose, I don't want anybody to get it or they know they have a little bit of money coming, what the heck. It's like. So his pride and ego I think get in their way a lot. And also if they concede, they almost feel like they gave in. If the bank forecloses that means you had to come and take this for me, I didn't give it back to anybody. I didn't give it to you. I didn't give it away. It's a you're gonna have to take this firm. It's a pride and ego and a frustration position. And let me think dude used to run an extremely successful very big construction company. And I later found out he was an alcoholic. He got into a DWI accident. And apparently his wife came to visit him in the hospital, which is where she met his girlfriend who was in an accident with him. And the whole thing blew up. He was in the hospital, she came home, drained the accounts closed the business. He comes out of his coma, and he doesn't have a wife anymore. And he doesn't have any money. And he's served with divorce papers. Yeah, Lee. Yeah. So at that point, when I had closed on it, I'd gotten a chance when I had to contract with the bank I had them on. So I did inspections, mechanical, electrical plumbing. I knew the roof had a little bit of trouble, not too bad, but I knew it was a little hair. So at that point, I knew it was going to cost me so I spent four months repairing damaged wood inside outside all this stuff. Got it all done. And then that's what we moved into operate out of here running around our business out it came out amazing man, I just pull up there whenever I'm driving by with somebody like that hasn't seen it before. I'm like, I'm gonna show you this. Man, it's tough to lash let this go. I don't fall in love with real estate because to me, it's a commodity. I make deals I move on. This is one of the few places that is so special and so unique. And I'll just you know, it's sad, because I know that you don't get something like this very often, it will probably never be able to replace it in our career, because we just want to stumble across it for a good deal again. But the new office I bought as 15. This is 5500 square foot, the new ones 15,000 square foot. So I've got a lot more room. Yeah, the location is really good. It's right there, Broadway and 14. And so it's incredible location, right down the street from my house, right by the airport, like killer location, a plus location and that's dope. It is so it's tough to let this go. But we got some head. Are you still in the office right now? So I'm in the office right now buyers supposed to close in a couple of weeks or two. And then I'm actually going to lease back from them for a year. Well, not quite a year. My goal is to be done in December, I'm remodeling gutting and remodeling a new place right now. So hopefully we should be done moving on the holidays. I saw some of those progress pics. Nothing's coming out amazing. Yeah, thanks. That's a lot bigger project than in terms of building wise I'm used to doing for a remodel, but it'd be worth it. We're done. Do it once you get it over with. What's your, what's your sale price now? Because you're selling at the top of the market? Oh, on this place? Yeah. And I would like to say, but until it closes, I probably don't know that I should. Yeah, didn't say maybe you don't want to talk about that. Right? The second. But I'll tell you, I'm not taking a URL, we'll be fine. You know, you don't lose that deals, right? Normally No. So let's talk about this. Let's talk about losing in real estate, because you said real estate investors don't lose money, right? The winning side of the of the of the business. Let's talk about some losses. Have you had some really bad losses that you kind of faced head on? They were like, Yeah, you know, you're the first I guess rule or goal should be to never risk principle. So let's just say you start your business with 100, grand, easy number, whatever, you don't ever want to risk that principle, you want to grow it, you want to invest it, you want to, you want to grow the business, but you want to risk that initial investment, as you make more money and reinvest more, you still want to risk that investment. So when you go to invest, let's just use a flip house, for example, we're gonna buy for 100, put some money into it and resell for 200 Maybe. So if you break even, and that's one thing, but if you sell it for less than you have into your loot, you're risking principle, you're losing money, and that's the hard part. Because you have to make twice as much when you lose, you know, because you got to pay taxes on it, you got overhead, you know, and then you lose some of that you really have to work double as hard to recoup that loss. So it's, there's so many bad, so many bad cases for that. But there are about, I don't know, 123 there three times, where I've lost money. One of them was on a big flip house. And five years ago last never forget the number stands out and I talked about it often $54,000 That was as a whopping loss at the time. It really hurt at the time. So in that case, I undershot them, I overshot the market, under shop repair costs, and I overpay basically, every one of those things I was off because I was so optimistic. I'm gonna flip a house now my heights, everyone's gonna love it, it's going to be so valuable the markets going upwards every day. I was wrong on all accounts. And in that case, I'm more private money. So to bring 54 to the closing table to pay off the freakin debt and interest out, man, that's tough. But what came out of that loss is it made me look at every single deal differently. And I said, I have to get better deals, I have to get the deal so good. That if I overpriced that, if I under value repairs, if I missed the market, if I do all these mistakes, I still won't lose money. So what that did is, let's say so now for example, I paid 330,000. Nowadays, when I look at a deal like that, I wouldn't pay more than 150, which would leave an additional 150 $180,000 difference. That's how much more discipline I got. Because I can make all those mistakes and still not lose money. And now you say, Oh my God, how do you get a deal like that? Right? How do you get deals like that these days, they don't exist? Well, y'all both know my volume is pretty good. So they exist, you'd have to look differently for them. But if I wouldn't had those heavy mistakes, a couple of those early on, I wouldn't have told myself, oh my gosh, I wouldn't just be moving through doing these smaller little flips and little deals and making a couple bucks here and there. And I don't know if I would have gotten the shake up that said you need to look harder dude. So that was one of them. There was one where I one of the lead cases we have we made some mistakes early on. And I didn't realize it we had legal advice all the way along it to attorneys. And we made some mistakes. We got deep in the lawsuit and the other party did a great job litigating and basically showed us our mistakes. And I knew at that point I need to cut a deal because I don't think I'm going to win a trial if this goes that far. So in that case, you know I wrote it down and cut a deal it cost me money. So that caused me to look at those types of cases much differently. And we do a different kind of review on them now so that I shouldn't find myself in those positions as often. Yeah, I noticed some one thing that said turns out to me, I've had probably a lot of mentors but you know, you and Ryan being the front runners that have been there, like said the whole time, but I think one thing from the beginning when I first got in because I am one of those like, you know, ready fire aim, guys, is you think you think a lot in terms of defense. And at first I was kind of a little annoyed by them like this guy's too careful. But you know, everybody thinks they think your negative Nancy they think you're always talking should have a deal. They think it's no fun, but you're undoing I'm making sure no one loses their ass. And I'll tell you what, I have three losses. One of them only made $1,500 on it was a flip. I call that a loss. I worked on it for two months, invested money and walked with a 1500 bucks and had a partner the deal. So he got 750 I got 750 I work too much for 750. That's a freaking loss to me. Yeah. My two months back. Yeah. Right. Yeah, well, my two months back 750. Sir, right. So those deals caused us to look at things differently. And, and now I'm not trying to I'm never worried about the profit anymore. I'm worried about all the ways you can lose money. And if you assess the dollar amount to all those and get a subsequently equivalent discount to those potential risks. Now what you have is a margin of safety. But that's also it's a convertible profit margin. It can be a margin of safety, or it can be profit, but it can convert into a margin of safety, if the market starts to weaken if you make mistakes. So let's just say you think you're gonna have a $50,000 profit, I look at that as a $50,000 convertible margin of safety. I can make 50,000 worth of mistakes before I risk my principal. So yeah, sometimes we're bringing us deals are like, Dude, you're like, you're looking for everything wrong with this. I'm like, that's exactly what I'm doing. And I know it's not fun. I'm making sure no one's losing their ass. No, man. Yeah, I feel it. And like I said, I just from being around you now for a few years. I am thinking in terms of that more, because now even you know being in business with Daniel with hive mind, I'm like, You got to think about this, we got to watch out about this, you got to factor for this. And he's, you know, still in the extra optimistic phase, I guess. And then I'm the one that has to be the one that says dude, you don't know that there's no possible way you can predict that we need to do and then I kind of hear you in the back of my mind, too. You know, coming up with this stuff. I'm like, I'm just telling you, man, you have to look at the things that could go wrong. You have to eliminate borders, you got some experience now. And I'm sure along the way, you made some these mistakes. And you say, Man, I learned from these guys, because I've watched and heard it. But I've also had a couple of mistakes. And yeah, I can see. I don't want that to happen anymore. Yeah, I think you got to kind of learn through some pain, right? It's like your parents tell you don't touch that hot stove when you do it. Anyway. I've been coming to find more of that in business is that like, yeah, you can you can they can give you all the good advice. But are you going to take it yes or no? And I am like I said, since I am that over optimistic ready fire aim that I got to kind of, you know, tame myself down and say, Hey, let's take a wider look at this and make sure that we're not walking in any traps. Absolutely. And we recently had one right, Daniel, we had a pretty big, pretty big scare there for a minute. Man, it's a long story, but our payment processor was charging us incorrectly for four months. And they once they caught it, they ran our card all in one day. So we yeah, we paid back payments for four months for you know, almost 400 subscribers. So yeah, it wasn't amazing. So yeah, talk about having to make a miracle happen in just a couple of days. But yeah, that was a that was a real move. Yeah, dear. So I mean, you live and you learn that that we could have predicted nothing we could have foreseen but it's the thing that I've been talking to Daniel about since we started this thing is like, yeah, you gotta be prepared for surprises. You know, you have to you have to factor in the unfathomable. Yeah, so it's true. And you know, there's no better time to think about that than right now, you need to get interest rates ticking up, it seems like every month, you know, we probably got to several point increase on the horizon between now and the end of the year, I've heard potentially as much as two and three points, percentage points, or basis points, whatever 300. That if that happens, that's going to immediately change the market. You know, I've been so bold as to say if we had a, we had a single 100 basis point increase, which is equivalent to 1% of interest rates. I think that would almost freeze the market. The capital markets would hold for just a moment and see what the heck's going on. What are we going to do? Because that's a dramatic change. You know, there's Biden's issue a bunch of stuff lately saying their intent is to get control the inflation only thing that will be there right now is a radical, dramatic action. The only tool they have left is interest rates that I know of. So what do you think needs to happen, man, can we get out the crystal ball right now? Like, what should happen? And then let's say, you know if things run to hell, like, I hate to predict the future, right? But can you give us like, what, what could happen here? Like, what's worst case scenario? And then what's what's, what's the fix? What's best case scenario? I mean, I don't think anybody's smart enough to really predict what's gonna happen, you know, the smartest minds on Wall Street still haven't been able to predict any kind of consistency. So but what we can say is, we're far off and far long enough in the real estate cycle where it shouldn't be time for correction, we know we're seeing a lot of inflation, we're nowhere, we know we're seeing asset values. And expenses run much faster than salaries are running. So you got a lot of yet a lot of things that are coming to a head and all it takes is a special surprise over in Russia or China or wherever or any other unknown list of things that can happen and credit markets freeze overnight, stock markets already damn near been a free for all for the last couple of weeks. So when you said a lot of these conditions that are happening, you say, what are we going to do? Well, somebody asked me that a couple of weeks ago, and I said, I'm not gonna do anything. And I said, Well, why not? Because we've been cautious with our capital, we're only been buying assets that we're going to either resell or we feel good about owning if we don't resell them for the right money in the right time. Anytime we've been taken down stuff, we make sure that they have good cash flow, we're not buying anything, it's not really a cash flow asset. Because in case you get stuck with it for some reason, we're also mined with pretty darn good discounts a lot of stuff we're getting between 40 and 60 cents on the dollar. So the market can fall by 30 or 40%. And I can still sell it and get my principal back, that margin of safety thing we're talking about, is still really heavy. So I don't know that I change a lot, I continue to buy at the same rate, I continue to add same discount. And if something dramatic happens, I can discount things and sell them and still get my principal back and still remain liquid, I believe. But what is it different thing at this point? For the last 10 years, all these hedge funds have been in love with single family housing after Blackrock hit their home run, buying all the single family houses. So, you know, I wonder when we start to get some softening in markets and real estate markets and things, do we get a softening in the single family houses? Maybe we do, maybe we don't. But if we do, I still think there's a ton of the investment grade buyers not investments like flippers, but I mean institutional grade buyers. Right now they're buying houses by the OPPO I'm talking mayor. So that could probably still exists because they're doubling down on single family housing, it's proven to be a really good investment over over time. So my gut tells me, there's still probably going to be a lot of those big fund buyers, still buying single family. So I like that because that tells me All right, great, maybe I don't buy so many ranches. If I need a good deal and offices that have cash flow, I'll keep buying those things. And kind of improving them a bit in terms of the economics and maybe spend more time dealing with single family stuff again, because we know how to do so well. We can change gears and say take that multifamily lead list out of the till and stick the single family list because remember, I told you I got all those leads, let's just do a different filter and pop it in and boom. Now we'll do single family starting next week. Yeah, I like the strategy. I haven't even talked to you about that yet. But you know, I've been primarily doing land for the last three years, you know, and it's been really, really going really good for us. It's that kind of that coordinates and nobody's paying too much attention to but myself even just without even I guess thinking about it. I am starting to think a lot more about getting starting to market for houses. Yeah, so I've always thought and I've talked to folks that were doing real estate in the last slow period. And they did say land was one of the first things to slow down. We haven't seen a slowdown yet and just trying to gear up. Well, the I agree. Yeah, I haven't seen that either. But you know, so then you have this interesting thing about a lot of folks are spending a lot of money on land because land prices and running IT folks are coming to Texas so land is really got a lot of attention. So when markets slow down, do you get some softening and land pricing probably, if you will completely stop buying and I don't know maybe economy stay a little bit stronger Texas, even our last downturn, Texas is still much more healthy than all the rest of the places. Now granted, we still go to the foreclosure auction and get a house for 40 grand that was pretty neat. But we are far healthier than most of the other states. So I don't know what all that means. But I know the energy business is getting a little healthier again and San Antonio is heavily affected by that. So South Texas and you know my life by and large, so I think that helps us Yeah, I'm gonna still keep playing the land game. I don't know that I'm necessarily going to keep closing on stuff. But we're going to I'm going to do a bigger push for land right now. And I'm going to see what we can pull back because like I said that yeah, the prices have been going nuts man, even the sellers are just they're asking like the prices are asking are just crazy now. I mean, it's getting harder and harder to find a good land deal. So yeah, I think we do need little bit, we deserve a little bit of softening of the prices for sure. But I'm gonna keep pushing him in, because then maybe just stick to wholesaling instead of closing on land right now. I don't think it was bad, also to their times really get certain deals are over my head. And I say you know what I don't either I'm not completely sure about this one, or it would just be too stressful on our capital. So I say, Hey, who do I know that's got a ton of money and understands Linux, there are tons of other people. So those are the times where I would get closer to call on somebody and say, hey, look, I've got to deal on a pay for and let's figure out a split. And I wouldn't use any of my own money, I'm be flat out, honest with them and explain all those things. You know, they still felt like they felt good about it. Let's do the deal to use your money when you get into higher purchase price stuff. Yeah, when we're looking at that right now. Now I'm starting to have those people in the pipeline now that I can call and say, Hey, can I borrow half a million dollars? Yeah, sure, whatever. But now, now that you do have that superpower, now I'm trying to protect their money, you know, more being a bit more cautious because it's somebody else's wallet to somebody now we need to buy even deeper, more carefully. Well, so I agree with that. But also agree that you got to find somebody who might be a little more of a specialist that has a little, they've got maybe a longer trajectory for their return, they might be willing to wait longer. And in those cases, I'll be real clear, I would say, Look, I'm not 100% sure about some of this stuff, which is why I'm not, you know, betting my farm on this. But if they feel good about it, and they understand it, and they're willing to do it. I mean, I wouldn't hide any of that. I'd be very upfront and feel good about that. And that's okay, well, I'm definitely gonna make this deal work. Yeah, that's what we did. We got one in Denton right now for 300. And that's when I told him I said, Hey, look, it's definitely not going to lose. I said, it's a guaranteed win. Worst case scenario, just have to wait a little bit longer. That's the first thing I said before we even closed on it. So yeah, I think a lot of transparency is important, because folks get so wrapped up in making them wanting to promise people a lot because they think that's required to get the money. Some folks realize it's a risk. Some folks, I want a guaranteed return. And I want zero risk. That's more of me. But sometimes you say I'm willing to take on a little bit of risk. Well, let's see how this goes. Another thought is, let's say you buy the land for 300 grand figure and sell for four and a grand maybe, well, what's the worst case that's going to happen this year? Well, I got 300 at risk. No, you don't. Let's say you buy for 300. And you got to cut bait because you screwed up and you got to sell for 280. So you walk with 280 You don't have 300 at risk, you have 20 at risk. Yeah, you're not gonna buy the land for 300 it's gonna be worth $0. Come on, man. So maybe you have half of that risk. What's your value risk? Maybe it's half? Yeah, that's about it. And that's what I've been telling a lot of people Yeah, is that you're definitely not going to lose, right? Because the game we've been playing, and we've been doing what you've been doing, buying it deep enough to where there's enough room to have fun with everybody. But that's what I told him. Like I said, you know, you're not gonna lose 100%, you're not gonna lose. But you might have to wait a little bit longer or liquidate and get nothing back. Or another option is you say, You know what, I'm the one that brought to deal you decided to get involved with it, we tried, this doesn't look like there's going to be any profit. I'll let you keep whatever it is, I'll either deed my half to you, or I'll just pass on any of the proceeds because we don't think we're gonna make a lot of money. So I don't need to make any money on this. You're the one that risk all the cash. If we're only going to make a small amount. You just keep going. Don't worry about it. Let's go. That's fair to me. Yeah. Yeah. I teed it up that way on this one, too. I said, Hey, if we end up having to get too low on our profit or turnaround, I'll just take zero, right. So I just invested some of my expertise and my knowledge, my time trying to market it and didn't happen will walk away and I'll get I'll get nothing. I'm good with that team. Man. I like to try to make sure everybody wins. Yeah, I agree with that. I do that if you're not too greedy, you're willing to share? Makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I can kind of tell now. I'll go ahead and quit any I was gonna do the question. I was gonna say I that's kind of just how I do it. I can kind of tell if somebody's going to be a good fit, like for a business partner with myself. And they start doing calculations and percentages before we actually have a deal on the table. I'm like, Man, forget it. This guy's getting crazy. Yeah, you got to be willing to be flexible in this business, if you want to partner with a lot of people. And I've been pretty good at that. Well, I mean, that's a fair statement. Actually. Everybody sees stuff differently. Everybody sees their deals differently. And if you're not willing to be super flexible, you're gonna have a tough time making some work. Yeah. Because of what we talked about right now. It's like all the variables, right? You can you can't foresee the future. So you say yeah, this looks like an amazing deal. But we don't know what's going to happen on the back end. So you got to have that that let some level of flexibility going into something with somebody else. Yeah, I'd agree with that. For sure. So what is a quote that is yours or somebody else's that you resonate with? good quote. Oh, did a good one. Actually. Let me read it to you. See, I know exactly which one I'm thinking of. I asked okay, this is a quote from Gone With the Wind, do you mean to tell me that land doesn't mean anything to you? Why land is the only thing in the world worth working for worth fighting for worth dying for? Because it's the only thing that last month, that was a fun quote. And it was really relevant to our business. You know, I was having a conversation with a guy the other day, he's an attorney. And I happened to bump into him at a party, a friend of mine, he recognized me or whatever, we got to talking. And he basically said, he likes, he likes to fight over land. He's an attorney. And that's kind of his thing. He thinks people are really passionate about it, they care about it. It's Texas, it can be really high value. And he's like, that's kind of what I've made a career over fighting for land. And he told me that he started one of the Supreme Court briefs. Recently, the opening of that pleading had that quote from Gone With the Wind, and it was a dispute over land. And I thought, dude, that's a really interesting opener. So I liked that. And tried to set the tone of everything from the very beginning. Yeah, yeah, he's he was skilled, and I was really impressed. So that was fine. Yeah, so we usually wrap these up, like, right about the hour mark, man, but it's interesting. You want to cover talk about right before we head out? We got time, if you got time. I felt like we'd like there's just so much. I know, you have so much information inside that head of yours. I thought we didn't bring out enough of it. Yeah. I don't know, what's what's relevant right now. You know, I mean, I think something that's just important for folks to be aware of and talk about right now, is the market changing? You know, I think a lot of people are gonna get their butts handed to them. And, and I don't think we are, and I don't say that in a cocky way. But I think the reason I say that is because we're paying attention. We're preserving capital. Every day, we're looking at what's happening, we're trying to be thoughtful, make decisions based on that. And that doesn't mean we're scared or fearful, you know, we're working our way in through stuff, but we're watching and paint into the hallway. So when things change, we've got exit strategies, we've got backup plans, and we should be able to catch it as quickly as, as things start to change, we should be really, really ready for that. So that's something I want to bring awareness to everybody. And I don't want to be, I got one guy in my office, who's Mr. Negative nancies. And then the fucking stock crash, I mean, all the negative news articles about the stock market, and more than that, I got one guy who's the most positive like, almost to a halt point in the world. I'm more in the middle, I'm gonna Yes, I noticed that's gonna be crazy out there. I know, things are looking kind of bad in some ways. But I'm also not going to be stupid than just blindly go one direction, kind of the middle. And I'm watching it. And that's why I think we're going to do really well in a time like this. But a large part of people get hurt. They're heavily extended, they didn't plan well. Or they just blindly led themselves in the six deals and didn't have a backup plan or something like that. Yeah, that's, that's what I'm trying to start to talk about a little bit more. And having those types of conversations is like what's happened next, because this is my first recession, I had never ever been through one last time I wasn't in real estate, I was in construction, I didn't fill it, you know, I stay busy as ever. So I am trying to prepare myself and of course, our peers and friends. So like what to do next. So I guess if you're doing if you're sticking a little bit closer to wholesaling, you're not quite buying on the in the buying phase of your career yet, I guess you're pretty safe in that area, there's something that you would change in that regard, are you just trying to buy a little bit deeper, or, you know, what I would tell people too, is, I see a lot of folks, they leave a job, they're making 4050 6080 100, grand, whatever good income, they get out here and go do a couple flips, or wholesale deals, and they bring in 5080 100, grand and a deal and do that two or three times and they have an incredible year. Good for you Good job. But that doesn't mean you're gonna go reward yourself and buy that gold Rolex for 50 grand or that $100,000 sports car. Not so fast. Times are changing that might have been great five years ago, but times are changing right now. Saving, preparing, watching out for what's coming next. But having those reserves is what's gonna get folks through that. I think that's what allows you to continue to build your business in a time that's uncertain. So that's something that I'm really pushing on everybody, all the partners in my office, all of you we JV with people that I help advise, you know, kind of mentor on their businesses, I harass the heck out of them. I still barely pay myself a little bit more than my best year as an employee. That's still my salary. Everything else is being reinvested. So you have an idea what some of our numbers look like. It's a very, very big percentage gets reinvested. That's what's allowed the growth but also the protection. So that's something I like to preach about. I like to remind people to eat discipline. I like to remind people that humans can justify anything. I'm gonna reward myself. I've worked so hard. You've worked so hard that you want to Put yourself in a riskier financial position that doesn't add up to me. You work so hard, so you should protect yourself. Yeah, you know, I'm the same way man. Like I said, I've, I guess I've made a lot of money in my lifetime as a contractor. And I did spend it all I mean, I just spent go out pay for everybody. I've always been like that. And then now in business and knowing, just kind of just preparing, getting a little bit smarter starting to buy stuff now. I'm playing a lot of experience with the wisdom. Yeah, you see all that money, how fast it comes and goes like, you know what, I'm gonna start hanging on to some stuff. But yeah, I think I do a lot of that. I do a lot of reinvesting I do a lot of sidelining cash putting stuff away. I try not to do anything fancy like to fancy you know, I see all these guys flashing online. I just I can't wait to see where everything's going to be in 12 to 24 months. It's the other lens. You brought up a good point you want to reward yourself go get yourself a nice dinner, not a Ferrari. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, we do it. We do just a fancy vacation with us. Like we take off to South Padre for a couple of weeks and less Disney and less yet. $50,000 vacations. I see everybody in Cabo with the beach. I wonder if those pictures are still gonna be there. 18 months from now. Right? You know, one more thing I'll tell you before we get off is I've kind of stayed away from the real estate education stuff. But folks have been hammering me for years to share more. This last year, I finally decided if I get 100 150 people in the room, I'll do a class you were there. It was on curative title work. That's the basis for the extreme discounts that I'm getting on this real estate. It's solving some problems breaking the title chain, several owners, tax tax liens. Just countless VA errors are kind of what do you call it? Now there's a word for it. But you've got a bad vesting document or bad that bad affidavit that was just erroneously created has mistaken and you got to resolve some of those docs, there's there some of the properties landlocked or it's not landlocked, which if approved, Ingress, egress there, countless judgments and liens, you got a strip from the property so that you can actually sell it make money instead of it being underwater, countless lists of that kind of stuff. But I did that seven hour class, I did record it, I do have it online. It's basically the equivalent of $1 of attorney hours, it's 399 bucks. But it's basically seven hours of what has taken me hundreds of 1000s of dollars in legal fees and about 10 years to learn. And it's the framework of resolving these assets, problems to get the extreme deals. I'll talk about the business case on how to negotiate these problems with sellers. I've got a couple of attorney friends that were of mine that were involved in it with me, so it was a great, I think it's a really good offering. So I do want to bring that up. I do have that you go on my Facebook or plenty places or I might give you guys a link if y'all can add it in here. Yeah, heck, I'm sure Daniel could probably pop up that link before we get out of here, man. But what is it called? When? So we just did? Is there a website set up for it yet? Or we just messaged you on Facebook to find you and request it? Yeah, there is. Education dash r And I can send you the link. I don't know. Can I maybe send it through this? Yeah, Daniel can pull it up here on the chat. He probably disappeared for a little bit. If you give him a minute or two. He'll be right back and he can post it up. Yeah. I'll put it in the private chat if you want to text it to me. And I'll post it inside of the private chat here. And then Daniel can post it on the there'll be a link that pops up on the screen right now. Oh, yeah. Okay. I can Yeah, man. I want to reiterate. I posted this on Facebook the other day. Yeah. But Logan has been in my corner, especially Ryan. I've been in communication with Ryan all the time. And sometimes he's the intermediary between the two of us. But yeah, two gentlemen have they've walked me through. Since my very first deal. I just text Ryan today asking Him for help today. I had some sellers in my office today. And I text Ryan right away. I called Ryan actually on speakerphone, and he's melt. So if anybody doesn't know who these gentlemen are, I have people asking me all the time. They're like, Man, I can't believe you only been doing this for three years. But it's not me. It's never been me. It's seeking out mentors. It's working with other people that have been doing this a lot longer. And you know, somebody like yourself who's who's an expert, especially in so many different areas, I feel like almost like you're not even a real estate investor. Like you're leaning towards like a data scientist slash like attorney some it goes much deeper than to just you know, signing some title docs and showing somebody a house. So it's like its own business in itself. So if you're offering something, would you say it was 319 bucks? Yeah. Yeah, I can imagine I've seen a lot of gurus you know, posting this stuff for 20 and 25,000. That's what I feel like I feel like the information that that you possess and that you share, you know, openly because you guys have never denied me you've never declined me and said hey, we're just not going to help with that. Everything I've ever reached out to you and asked you for the information has been there. So if I can, I can. There's no way to cover it. All right. It would take probably months and months to just cover everything nonsense. up. So for 400 bucks, guys, if you're in this space, if you're in the, you know, in real estate and you're trying to learn and you want to niche down, it sounds like you better get good at it right now with the market changing. Yeah, I'd say make sure you grab this link right here, or message Logan, we tried to get it pulled up right now. But if not, yeah, make sure you reach out, grab the information, it's something that you're probably going to have to watch 10 or 20 times because even me being there at the event. Like do I topped off I was like, Oh crap, I can't learn anymore. So I was hoping to hear recordings, I'll make sure I'll pick it up right away, too. But yeah, guys check it out, definitely, you're gonna have to get a little bit more savvy, you're going to have to learn a little bit more if you're going to want to stick around in real estate, I promise you, we're going to have this conversation again, six months from now we go live again, 12 months from now. And half the wholesalers that you know that are posting every day on Facebook, they're not going to be here anymore. They're going to be so hard or they're going to be in construction. Yeah, that could definitely happen when things change. We're gonna see. Yeah, I notice even just something simple like in San Antonio, when the hell fell when we had those hail storms. Everybody's all of a sudden everybody's a roofer, you know, so you gotta be prepared to change with the times. So no, Daniel, I guess. I don't know if he's coming back or not. I don't know where he went. But you get that link I just sent you. Hold on. I'll make sure it's in. Yeah, so when did you want to tell us what's involved in that curative title class, I can do a brief recap, but you can tell us better what is everything that people can expect to find in that link when they make that purchase? You went over went over all kinds of stuff. Yeah, man, God, I can't remember I'd have to look at the outline. But we did go over easement. So whenever specific performance lawsuits, some of those aren't necessarily curative title work, but it kind of falls into resolving problems. We talked about landlord property. I talked about resolving judgments and liens. There's about 10 Different kinds of judgment liens we talked about there. We talked about some HOA liens is a little bit more specific and unique. Talked about breaks in the title chain, orphaned and resolver estates, unresolved estates, those are some good ones. I had a couple attorneys spend some time talking about those because a lot of a lot of technical stuff that needed to be part of that. So there's two attorneys there. And then we had some pretty good interviews with folks that are actually really formidable real estate investors that was on I was excited about we had some great people there. And what they were adding, I thought was huge, because they've got tons of experience. And since this, I would call it discipline doesn't really have a rulebook. It's kind of just a lot of folks figuring out how to do messed up deals. Each person looked at it completely, completely different way. So we had some really impressive operators that had some great advice throughout the throughout the presentation as well. Badass event dude, hard to imagine that was your first event. Thanks. That was really good. Yeah, that was amazing. Has a good day. So I guess that's it for this one. Man. I would love to do this again. But thank you. We appreciate you coming out here and hanging out with and spending some time together. I'll keep on sending you deals as they come across my desk and what we're doing. But for the CDC man, thank you so much. Alright, dude. I'll see it man. Thank you.

Logan FullmerProfile Photo

Logan Fullmer


Over the last ten years Logan Fullmer has run a successful real estate business that began with buying foreclosures and flipping single family homes. During his real estate career, he’s built houses, refurbished commercial buildings, entitled and subdivided development land, and became a self-taught curative title work expert while annually participating in several hundred real estate transactions. Today he runs an office of 15 that flip commerical real estate, ranch land, wholesale and invest into various non real estate related business. Logan is forty years old, a husband and father of four.