0:01 Hey, welcome to the hive with us podcast today. I'm your host, Daniel Martinez. Today I have a special guest, Kevin all smashed I know he's probably the correct me leader and I did not ask him to verify his name if I was gonna say it correctly. I asked all the other questions, but I forgot to ask him. We're gonna read the second today, Kevin, how are you doing today? How does the last name correctly or No, 0:27 you did it but that's okay. Everybody messes it up. It's a mush, 0:31 a moss. Okay, so Kevin a mosh we're gonna start over again. Kevin a moss on that. Kevin, you happy to have you today? Well, part of the country you call we call it? Are we talking today? 0:43 I'm going to suburb just west of Denver, 0:46 Denver. I liked Denver. I went over to Denver. When I go to Denver. It was like last year I was like ready to fall in love beautiful. It was it was nice. And I'm planning to go to Denver in the summer this year. My wife wants to drive through a little road trip. But I love Denver is very beautiful. 1:06 It's people think of Denver as being like this old mountain cowboy town, you know, and it's not anymore. It's actually a pretty big city. About 3 million, a little over 3 million in the metro. And it's about an hour from the mountains. So you could definitely see them but it's not right in the hills like some people believe. 1:24 Yeah, it's like, six Salt Lake City like, so it's like right outside the city is the mountains. I like driving through the mountains. And like, I hate the snow. So like, I'm like, I'll go there when I want to. 1:39 Yeah, that's why I want to come out in the summer. That's perfect. So I do want 1:42 to I do want to go skiing though. I've never been skiing or snowboarding or anything like that. I do want to try that. 1:47 So yeah, that's where you gotta try it. But I'm sure you do try that Daniel, you're gonna end up moving out here. So it's so maybe 1:55 I live in California. So the mountains are like an hour away 1:58 too. Okay, well, and you got the ocean. So that's that's a beautiful place. Yeah, 2:02 I got I got the little Trifecta going on. I can hit the beach, the ocean, and the Marlins all within like two hours. Now that's awesome. Same day, same day that people do it. And same day, people did it. So it's pretty cool. But side note, do you go skiing at all? 2:19 Oh, I love it. Yeah, I just bought a house up in Summit County, which is the main county along i 70. A lot of ski resorts in that county. I got my best year ever. I got 25 days and this year. So yeah, we love going up there. 2:35 25 days a ski. Yeah, 2:37 I snowboard. But now we've got our kids into it. They're into the ski clubs, or we're up there every weekend. That doesn't mean part of our life. Yeah, it's great. 2:46 That is amazing. I hope to get there one day helped me through Monday. But the and I'm actually a truck driver. So I always pay attention to the scenery. Driving up that mountain middle Pass area is amazing. It is such an amazing view. Every time I driven through there like twice I think it has been amazing. 3:03 Yeah. Okay. So you know, then yeah, I love it up there. It's just, there's something very therapeutic about the mountains, the ocean has the same effect. But it really can get your mind into a healthy spot where you could focus, right? And that's where entrepreneurs really can, you know, creativity and problem solving and all of that. So I tried to spend as much time up there as I can. 3:25 You have a good excuse to two ideas. Alright, so I was like Junkman similar where you're from where you live, just because it's one of those things where like, I from, like different countries, two of them, like I that really let's talk about all the stuff on so it's pretty cool. So I do like Denver, those numbers cool spot, though. So let's do this. Tell us about yourself. How many of your Oops, that was me. I hit a button. How many been an entrepreneur? And what exactly do you do? 3:54 Yeah, I'm not sure how much detail you're looking for here. But I bought my first property while I was still in the army. I went to the army right out of high school. And I was just trying to figure out what to do with some a little tiny bit of savings that I had and, and all the books I was reading was saying, Look, you gotta get into real estate. This is how you're gonna get rich. So I bought a property moved into it moved out of it two years later and kept it as a rental. So there I was 23 years old, and I had my first rental property. And what I learned through that process is holy cow. This really does work like you really can get rich in real estate. So I really honed in on that. And started on real estate investment companies are buying one or two houses every single month while I was going to school, I was also working. And then I fell in love with the financing side of real estate. So I started raising private capital and loaning that out to other real estate investors to help them with their projects. And I was a real estate investor right so I knew exactly what it is that they were looking for what they needed and, and this was back in 2006 before the crash but 2008 I started the company that I'm running today at Pine Financial Group, so 15 years in the business and this specific company about two decades in real estate and real estate investments, and gosh, I got it right. This is exactly where I was supposed to be. 5:07 Pine financial. That is an amazing story. I like talking to real estate investors. I've been in the game a long, long already. I've only been in real estate five years. And it's always interesting perspective because people that have like 15 years experience, they have a lot, a lot of stories, lots 5:22 of stories. Yep, the good and bad. I feel like I've seen it all, you know, and then and then I it's something happens like I never thought about and then I learned something new. And it's just a constant. It's a constant progression. And progress is great, right? So we just get better and better. 5:40 Progress is great. One of the one of the crazy things about real estate as a business in general is that there's so many like different things that can happen. And they're all individually specific. 5:52 Yeah, I mean, there's things that will never happen twice, right? 5:55 Yeah. And it's crazy. It's crazy. All it is, but we'll cover those a little bit later. But I think I think I love real estate just because it's one of those things where like, you're never going to learn every facet or every every hoop you're gonna have to jump through for every transaction. Right? Right. It's impossible. 6:13 For you, we should try though don't we? 6:15 So in the army hungry in the army for 6:19 so I went in, in and out I was in three years active duty one year National Guard. The cool thing about the National Guard was it paid for my school, right? So it was it was paying while I was in I was one weekend, a month I was paying for my school. But I also had the GI bill which was given me actual cash to use for school, but I already had the guard paying for school. So I had a little bit of income I could use. I didn't need student loans or anything. I went out and got student loans. So I could have some capital to go buy properties. And yeah, I guess the answer your long answer to your question is four years total that I was in? 6:51 No, I appreciate your service. And I think people out there like leveraging the military to get schooling, even VA loan like there's, there's a whole little niche in there just by joining the military. So I appreciate for your service. And it's kind of cool that you went through that even so long ago, it feels like a long time ago. Yeah, I was. I was, uh, I think you said 2006 or 2002. 7:14 I got out of the military in 2001. So I got into the and then I went right into real estate, right. So but I was in 2006 is when I got into the lending side of real estate. Prior to that I was just buying and selling and wholesaling, and fix and flips and all of that stuff. Yeah, 7:29 so that wasn't when I was nine years old. 7:31 Yeah, wow. It's crazy. Making me feel old now. 7:35 though. It's wisdom beyond your years. That's all I mean, you're you're doing you're doing the right thing at the right time. So I think experience, so you became a hard money lender first. And I was a 7:45 real estate investor first, and then I heard about the lender. And then I became a mortgage broker. And that was terrible. Because of all the all the you know, the a lot of regulation came in around 2008, the SAFE Act and all of that. And so that was kind of the time where it became very challenging to be a mortgage broker. But I was already raising private capital at time. And I just saw, like, look, I can control my own destiny here. I can make the rules. I can underwrite the loans, I could keep the lungs and house and service them. I don't need someone telling me what I can and cannot do I know how to keep people's money safe. So I focused on hard money at that point. 8:19 And you've been doing harmony, you're still doing harmony now. On harmony. Yeah, I 8:22 was doing in 2006 with a partner. And then we split when she got into some financial trouble. I was struggling as well through to the anybody in real estate into those struggles, right. So we decided to split she wants to teach real estate. I like doing real estate. I'm a trenches guy, a deals guy. So she went off to teach people how to do it, I went to continue to do it. And that's when I started pine. So pine was started in 2008. I still hear going strong. 8:48 I think I'm going down the route of you, because I'm an I'm a real estate investor, but I'm getting into the financial side. Financial side is very, very fun 8:57 for me, because I'm so fun. 8:58 I'm a math guy. I'm a numbers guy. And I love the financial side of it. So do you have a servicing company a note servicing company? 9:07 Yeah, we service our own loans. So we originate service in house when you just said that you love the financing site to which you don't why why that is or why a lot of people are attracted to the financing side of real estate. It's because the hunt of the deal and the deal structure and how you make your offer and how you negotiate it has everything to do with how you're going to finance it. So if you're gonna go get a conventional loan, you can negotiate it this way if you're going to have the owner carry a second or do a land contract or any of these creative strategies you have to negotiate in structured this way. So it all comes down to the financing and that's why that's why I fell in love with it. 9:40 So you're the first person I've ever heard say that because I've been saying that for a long time and people don't understand them like real estate is but it's less about the property more about the financing because how you structure the financing is what gives you the ability to buy more. I mean think about that. If you if you had unlimited financing, you can buy anything you wanted. 9:58 And think about this. I'm just thinking As we're talking here, if you get creative terms, you could overpay for a house, right? And still make money. So let's say you want to buy a house for 200,000. And it's only worth 100. That sounds like a ridiculous buy. But what if that 200,000 comes with a payment that's six or $700? below what you can rent it for? And then you could pay it off over, I don't know, 20 3040 years, but all of your payment goes to principal, there's no interest at all. Now, is it a deal that you would want to do? 10:27 See, now you're talking about language? See, this is this is this is the juice right here. So for everybody here, I we talked about this all the time was Orlando investors. So I'm like, if we get this thing creative finance, we want it to be 50%. Right? 10:40 Yeah, that's right. And you can overpay for it, get people to understand if the if the seller gets hung up on a price in order to negotiate and have a successful transaction, maybe you give them the price if they've been somewhere else where you could still profit. Just being creative. 10:57 Okay, so no one talks about this at all. And I love talking about this, like, I may even give it too much juice, but this is for the financial nerds out here. The numbers, like I was doing, I was teaching, I see we have our own little students that we teach, and I learned told him this Tuesday, price does not matter. If we get something seller finance, we hit me 50% wrong and still make money. That's a huge, huge, like buffer zone. Like you can be the worst real estate investor. But if you get creative terms, you're probably gonna win most of the time. 11:30 Yeah, exactly. I mean, you got to be smart about it. I'm, I'm just trying to I'm making this that example just to open up your listeners minds, like you, people get so hung up on the price. And that's like a very conventional way to think. I love the creativity. And that's why I went to the the private money route. Because now we can get real creative and fund deals, right. 11:50 So and one of the things I love about like, the financial side is like you gives you the ability to, like, take, like the one of the things that holds everybody's business as an investor is financing. Like they're not, they may not have the financial, they may not be able to raise money, and everything comes back to money. Like they can only buy so many properties under their name or their certain LLC, they were kept out, then they're like, I can't buy anymore. Yeah, I need to go to multifamily. And you got to figure assets, like No, you really don't used to be more creative with your financing, whether it's raising capital, and then you may be focused on raising capital, maybe focus on other things to fill that gap. And I think I think a lot of people, they they miss the financing key of it. And it's such a simple solution. Not necessarily that it's a simple solution. But it's if you know the solution, is there something you need to drive for and pick out. And that's the thing that's going to solve your problem. 12:40 Yeah, that's right. I agree with the word simple. It's a simple concept. Simple, you got to be creative, but it's not it's not easy, right? So easy. You absolutely have to work it I was I was calling sellers. While I was walking between classrooms on across campus, I'm making phone calls to people that are in foreclosure or people that have their back then it was a newspaper, when they had their property rent, advertised for rent in the newspaper, I would just call and see if they'd be willing to give me terms on on a cell. Maybe they were a landlord that didn't want to be a landlord, right? I don't know, unless I call them. So a lot of work. It's hard. But the concept simple. I agree. 13:15 So one thing I really want to dig on this, it's a lot of work. A lot of people they think they need, they don't think they're doing enough work to succeed. But they're really not your calling in between classes. Like me, it's like, I realized this one because it took me seven months to get my first deal wholesaling. I didn't have any money, I just wholesale the deal, found a contract and sold it. But one of those things were like, I thought I was doing enough action to get the result. But I really wasn't. 13:42 Yeah, it's like a plane taking off. Like I love this analogy, because the plane uses like 80% of the fuel it's going to use during a trip getting off the ground, and then it kind of cruises, right? So you got to put all that effort in first, get off the ground, get your momentum going. And then it becomes a little bit easier. Not totally easy. I mean, you still have to work, but your main effort has to be at the very beginning just to get the momentum. 14:08 Yeah. 100%. So what is what is some of your early on tips you can give to somebody new to raise private capital? Because I think you you find it hardest that Sony probably been doing it for years now. 14:22 Yeah, yeah. 18 years. Yeah. It's a slow, tough process. But once you perform, people want to invest with you. So we I've got investors that work with me now that had been with me from the very beginning. So 15 years, they've been investing with me, I really think the biggest advice is really you got to get that snowball going. It's kind of like the momentum, right? Because but you have to perform so don't over promise. So many people do that. If you're not hitting the targets that you're telling your clients or investors that you're going to hit, then they're not going to want to invest with you and they sure as hell aren't going to refer you to somebody. So make sure you're hitting your targets even if you have to be conservative. And those assumptions, but what I've had the most successful success with Daniel is education. And that's probably similar to you. And that's why you're doing this podcast, I would assume. If I could add value to somebody and show them how to make money. Oftentimes, they'll want to work with me to have them help help with that. So doing classes doing webinars, where now we have this YouTube channel, we're starting our own podcast, maybe we'll have you on. But it's just giving, giving value and helping people accomplish what they're trying to accomplish. And, and that's where I've really found the most success. 15:33 Yeah, we've, we're 100% Land investors. And we've came across a group of people that they own, like 1000 acres, but they don't know how to do what we do. So now we're helping them subdivide, seller finance it, and then wrap the mortgages and sell the notes and all that stuff. So we're teaching them how to do that. Because then cash is an issue, but they don't know how to structure it and make the real estate cash flow from then on. So it's one of those things where like, we're trying to facilitate that gap where they don't even know what to do with they just buy and sell, buy and sell, buy and sell. And it's more to real estate than buying and selling. 16:09 Oh, yeah, let's add some value. Yeah, it's the one asset that you can really add value to. That's why you can't compare to investment like stock market. Yeah, force stocks to appreciate. But you absolutely can do that. In real estate. 16:23 One of the things I love what I learned about financing is how to increase your yield. 16:31 Lot of ways to do that. 16:33 There's a lot of ways to do that. But as well as things were like, I talked about this online a lot too, because like, why do you invest you invest to get an ROI? What's the real ROI is it is your time and acceleration to receive your capital back. And it's not really about doors. And like, everybody has this vanity metrics of like, I have 100 doors to the door, it was $200. I'm like, angry. And like me, US financial guys, not that I'm nowhere near your level, but I understand that the doors consequently, like 500 doors in Detroit is nowhere equivalent to 500 doors in California. So doors doesn't matter. It's like, well, what's the cashflow? What's the net worth? What's What's the balance sheet? What's the numbers look like? That's the real, that's the real? What's the ROI that you're getting on those doors? Is it 200 per door? Is a 500 per doors and 700 per door? Like I don't know? 17:24 And how much risk is it? And how much effort is it? 17:27 Yeah. Like I said, I think we're gonna have a conversation offline. Because Lisa, what I learned, once I learned the financing side, I realized the leverage you have and the simplicity you have it, and it's just paperwork. Once you understand the paperwork, you can increase your yield, you can you can do certain things to make more money and make the real ROI, which is what all that matters in different ways. without the hassle 17:53 of owning. And that's a, that could be a long conversation you and I could have because there's all different kinds of matrix that you should be looking at Ri is one of them. But that's not like a cash on cash return. That's a completely separate way to look at a deal. Right? So you got to consider all of these different ratios or matrix when you're analyzing something. 18:12 Sure. So have a good conversation for you. So I feel this is I don't hear it very often. But I feel like the metric everybody should be looking for is getting infinite returns. 18:25 Yeah, so that's easy. I believe, when you're dealing with a smaller type of projects, your little onesie twosie is it's easy to get no money down, cash flow out of day one. But it's hard to have big profits on those. So I don't know what your audience like where they're at in their careers. But if you're talking about a little single family house, you get an infinite return tonight, it's really not that hard. But if you're trying to make seven figures on every deal you touch, a lot of times you're going to have to put some capital into that. Now, could you raise the capital and just get it from other private investors or limited partners or whatever? Absolutely, absolutely, then you can have an infinite return. But what I've what I've found is the ones that are willing to put in a little bit of skin tend to make bigger dollar amounts. So it's, it's what's your goal, you're looking for an infinite return, as you suggest, or you're looking for that million dollar payday and two or three or four of those a year? I guess it depends on the goals, right? 19:21 Yeah. 100% This is where like I talked, I talked about different returns because people say oh, maybe like, like, I always equate it to like stock markets. But second where people with a guy they're okay with like four or 5% returns and like give me your money. Exactly. I'll give you 10% all day long. Like if that's all you're looking for is temporary. This is 6% Man, I can't I can do that. Don't worry about that. I might double it 19:47 for you like if you're if you're bringing in equity investors and they're gonna participate in the ups and downs. It's actually not that hard to hit those higher returns right? So you totally reasonable to pay 1012 Whatever percent to your investors. I'm seeing that all day long. 20:01 Yeah, it's such a, it's such a funny conversation, when you talk to like, those stock market investors in the recent return, I'll do whatever, I'll give you as much as you need like 8%. Okay. 20:15 I always say you can leverage your stock account, you could do a margin account, right, I have a margin account for what's called a pledge asset line. So I don't lose access to all my money that's in the stock market. But I'll tell you what, if you use that line or that margin account, and then your stock portfolio drops like it has not that long ago, then they have what they call a margin call, and you'll better be ready for that. Because if they have a margin call, you got to come up with the cash and bring that loan back in line with your collateral. That's not a super comfortable position. You don't have that in real estate. 20:47 Mm hmm. Only in notes? 20:53 I don't you don't see very many margin calls and nuts. I think you were you would get a call like I might, you might get a call in a syndication like maybe some of the stuff you're doing if you get into trouble, they might go to the investors and say, Hey, we got to increase. Here, but it's it's pretty rare, right? And in stocks, it's, it's every day. 21:13 Since you're in the finance side, have you gotten to buying tapes at all? 21:17 I've looked at a handful, but no, no, here's the thing. I was looking at a small tape, it was about 15. And they were just trying to push it through. And then I want to actually had someone go out that was on the ground go out and look at the properties. I found that like two of them weren't even there. The city had demolished the properties. So like I, I guess I got a little adverse to that I would much rather buy a 15 unit apartment than 15 single family homes from one buyer. But that's just me. 21:48 No, that's interesting. I've never heard anything like that. It's interesting. This is where like you get to the financial side, you kind of venture in all these different directions. So it seems like you're just more on the on the origination and management side. 22:02 Yeah, on the front end for the for the financing, I'm really just, we originate we service, we do sell off loans to private investors, at times to free up some capital, they're happy with it super safe investment for them. And then on the other side of my own investments, so i i buy and sell and I still do some of that. But it's those are all much bigger projects now than when I was getting started. We're looking at commercial stuff and multifamily and that kind of thing. 22:28 What What stage three, lending. We lend in 22:31 Colorado, Minnesota. Those are our two primary markets. We do a ton of business in both of those. I also live in Wisconsin, and we started lending this year in DC. 22:40 Wow. How do you how do you get your name out there and all these different markets if you're like Colorado based? 22:47 Yeah, so we do some advertising. So we have the pay per clicks. And like all that we do the social media stuff. So the YouTube channels tends to work pretty well. But it's really just like I mentioned about raising the private capital, once you get one or two and you perform the work kind of spreads. So we're just really diligent asking for referrals. And I can tell you over 80%, it's about 82 ish. So real close to that percent of our loans that we close are either repeat or referrals. So that's how we that's how we grow. 23:20 That's amazing. That's amazing metrics. That's amazing. That's good. Word of warning, all 23:25 you got to do is what you say you're gonna do. And then people like that, you know, it's really not that hard. 23:31 Can we get into numbers as far as how much you're lending out per year? On an annual basis? Or? 23:35 Yeah, so it's a it's about 160 billion a year. billion? million? Wouldn't that be nice? Now we're small, we're small shop, we're 13 people, we're hiring two more, but right now as we record this, we're 13 So 160 million. 23:51 Okay, that's awesome. A million. That is I missed that. I missed a lot of revenue. So that revenue originally and create how does a person become an RM ello? Or where do they find RM ellos? 24:07 are what are you gonna help me? What's an RM ello? A residential mortgage loan officer? 24:12 Yeah. Are you even doing that? 24:17 So we do we don't do any residential. There's a lot of regulation around that. So we do business purpose lending only. So if you're thinking about the person that's going to borrow money to make money Yeah, that's the loan we're interested in so your rental properties your fix and flips your commercial repositioning for you like maybe a land deal if there's some value out there. You told me that you parcel it out and sell it off. If there's value add and you're looking for a short term bridge loan that's what we're that's where our niches 24:44 are different. Okay, different terms. Okay, so I haven't been I haven't done I haven't done like your side of it. I've been doing seller finance stuff, so I guess Oh, okay. So yeah, we 24:53 don't do any of that in Pine. I have done that outside of pine but pine financial is originally loans for real estate investors. Yeah, we don't we don't want to own property at all. I mean, we have a handful because we had to foreclose. But we liquidate those, get them off our books, we can loan the money back out again. 25:12 That is a you work with investors only. That's the that's the difference. I work with a little bit on the customer side a little bit. 25:20 Yeah. So much regulation over there for us. We just we just stay away from 25:25 land, though. That's why we like it's not under yet. I 25:30 don't know the rules, you're, I'm gonna defer, you're probably right. I just know if it's consumer purpose lending, then you fall under RESPA, until tread and all of that other stuff. Business Purpose lending, you don't have any of that. 25:42 That's amazing. So when I'm one of my goals is I want to do what you do. Once I get the capital stacked up, because I don't want to hold property either. 25:52 I know it's hard, right. And the financing is so much safer. This side of the business is so much safer. I hate to admit it, but it's true. Some of our clients will lose money on their project, they go over budget, they take too long, their contractors will manage or whatever it is. And they're the ones that take the loss, not the lender, we get paid first. So I really do like this side of the business. 26:13 And you underwrite it to a certain point where you're protecting your money or your lenders money, that's back 26:19 nearly. So our default rates like 2%, it's a little under 2%, which is well below like, even VA and VA is the lowest which is That's an unusual, because there's no downpayment requirements. But VA, FHA, conventional, were well below all of those in our default rates. 26:35 Wow. That's, that's amazing. 26:37 Interesting, right? 26:38 It's very interesting. I got my wheels turning here a little bit, because even then, like, you don't, you don't want to take the property back. But sometimes you have to it is what it is. That's right. It is it is what it is. But like you said, there's a lot of varying risk from the whole time from even a bad contractor, or somebody coming in there and stealing all the materials like, yeah, I can easily foil your whole project. It's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. I like I like, I like the financial side, I'm working towards there, at least I'll have conversations offline, because like, as far as things were, like, I like the, the less risk aspect of that having actually had to do the physical labor physically, physically doing the pummeling in, or manage managing all that the roof, like, as far as things were like, I can just push paper, that's all I'm gonna do. 27:31 Yeah, totally. I got started by just like, hey, here's a private individual, he wants to make a loan, but he doesn't know he doesn't have a database, he doesn't really know how to originate it. Here's that real estate investor that wants to fix and flip this little condo? Well, if I introduce them, and I could maybe make some money. So that's how I got started, why don't I just originate the loan for the individual that has the money, and I'll take some points fees. And then they can they can work together from there. And then it just migrated to like, oh, do this, this is a business here. So we created a fund, lower investment amount diversification, you're diversified over a lot of properties, and you can get your money in and out if you want. So the fund was a far better tool to use and just brokering to individuals together. And that's really where expanded. So for someone like you, I'm just I'm sharing this with you because you said your wife didn't it. 28:22 Um, I'm taking mental notes. I'm glad you're saying 28:27 the individual it was really easy way to start, because you didn't need to find you didn't need the attorneys helping you out. You didn't need any of that. But the feedback was like it's not diversified. If if something goes wrong with this note, that investor is on the hook for it right now, though, we ended up with the property. So maybe it's not so bad. Your incomes definitely going to stop while you work through the problem. Yeah, they they couldn't get the money back. And the investments, especially now with all the appreciation we've been seeing over the last several years, and you in California, oh my gosh, if if they're going to if you're going to do the individual, they have to come up with the entire amount of the loan to do it. So this way, at least it could break up and make it easier for more people to get involved. So eventually, you're gonna you're gonna want to get into a fund of some kind, and bringing in investors that way. 29:12 What's the minimum buy in for your fund? 29:15 We're tiny look, we got we just got a public fund accepted about 18 months ago, so we can offer it publicly, which is very rare in this business. And we don't have to restrict us to accredited investors only we can work with accredited and non accredited investors. So we have the the entry level pretty low so more people can get involved if they want. It's like 10 $10,000 to get started. 29:36 Wow. That's that's really really good. For everybody here, pine Financial Group. This is a plug. I'm an instructor that's a low barrier to entry. And one of the reasons why I like the low barrier to entry to because a lot of people they invest in stocks and all these dividend incomes because they feel like I can I can put $15,000 into real estate and make money. Right? And that's your group.com 29:59 There you go. it, at least it gives you some exposure to real estate. Look, we don't even know if your money in the bank is safe anymore. Now I happen to believe it is. But it was put into question recently, wasn't it? I mean, yes, very recently. And you know, the FDIC insurance they can insure? I don't know if you know, the standard, but 30:19 what's that up to 250,000 per account, 30:21 right, but the amount of reserves that they have to actually pay out claims, so they they are required to keep cash of 2% of all insured deposits, insured deposits, like you said, 250,000 per individual, per bank. So people spread it out over banks, right. 2%, you know, what they actually have in reserves, what 1.23% 1.23% Of the amount of insured deposits is an illiquid reserve account for the fed the payout for the FDIC to pay out in claims, how many banks have to fill before that gets chewed up? You know, so how I just I bring that up, not to scare anybody, but there's really not enough insurance to pay claims. So it would mean a bailout of some kind if there was bank runs, or not returning deposits, right. So how safe how safe, are we? That's why real estate is so important. It's main street, I can go out and touch it. I know where it's at. If I need to, I can rent it out and produce income. Yep. 31:23 1.2%, you got 1.23? 31:25 Yep. Those numbers just came out. 31:29 That is crazy. And then what surprised me with these last big rounds was SBB? And was the credit signature? Yeah, sure. They backed everything 31:40 they did. And all they're doing is increasing the premiums to the other banks, oh, it's not going to O'Hare gone around. We're not going to charge the taxpayers. Don't worry. We're going to bail out the the depositors, which I agree with, by the way, we're going to bail out the depositors. And we're not going to charge the taxpayers anything, but you know, we're going to get the money, right? It's going to be all the other banks because their insurance and premium, the FDIC insurance premium is going to go up so we can cover all of this. Well, what did the banks do when their premiums go up? They pass it to the customer and pass it to the customer. So don't worry, though, taxpayers aren't going to pay for this. This is just another way to print money. It's not quantitive easing, they're not calling it that. But it absolutely is printing money. Money is getting injected into the system through this bailout. 32:27 This is such a high level of coverage. I'm glad we're having it, though, because 32:29 I'm sorry, I just went off on a little tangent there. I mean, they had to bail them out. Because what would have happened had? It would have been, it would have been crazy, right? Absolutely not. So it's good thing they did it, it's just, it would just be nice. If there was some transparency behind it. That's all. 32:44 If they didn't bail them out, there would have been 10 More bank runs, because they were sending my money important to the bank, and I get it, I get it. It's just it's a crazy world we live in this is why you need to invest in real estate. That's right, 33:00 invest in real estate or debt backed by real estate, you know, either with you and what you're doing, or what we're doing. I mean, at least get it out of Wall Street and into main street, I think at least some exposure. And that's why we have such a small amount to get started, or at least get some exposure to that's diversification. Buying a mutual fund or five different stocks, you're not really diversified. You're diversified in this one little sector. How do you get more exposure? 33:32 That was good, like titles for the title of the episode. That's kind of the opposite for get your money out of Wall Street into Main Street as a title. Active listening, so yeah, just a good conversation. For everybody here. Learn about the financial side, the financial sector of real estate is plethora of opportunity, from hard money lending to seller financing to a lot of other things that you can do that we'll cover on this call. But there's a lot of things to do. There's plenty as much as opportunity there is on single family there's opportunity on on the financing side. But you don't even know about and this is that's why I love I love real estate as a whole because every sub niche has infinite opportunity. 34:19 Yeah, it creates challenges for people because they don't know which way to go. And then if you're chasing too many different things that you know, they call it the shiny object syndrome or the squirrel syndrome, right if you're always looking for the next world and you're never going to be successful, so I talked about that a lot. You really got to be focused, which is hard in real estate because there's so many different ways that you can go and make money. 34:41 I like I like your path and I think I'm on the same path as you is that you investor into lender into he kind of grow as an investor slash entrepreneur, you kind of grow into different things. And this is where I say this all time be open minded. There's people that still flip out For the last 20 years, nothing is the best thing since sliced bread. 35:04 And for them it is. And for 35:05 them it is. And then there's, there's people like you that's been doing financing for last 15 years. And it's the best thing since sliced bread. 35:12 Yeah, that's right. That's right. See, I'm all about capital preservation. I've taken my legs, man, I've been through 2008 2009 10. I know what that feels like. I'm not willing to do that again. So I am ultimate, my ultimate goal is to protect capital for me and my investors. And that's why the debt side is so attractive. 35:31 I think that's such a big message, because they're there to protecting it for your investors such a big thing too. Because once you have this knowledge that I hope to get to your level one day, it's like you have the you have the ability to preserve wealth for multiple people. Like it's not just you anymore. The knowledge to deploy and get good, good, good, good returns good safe returns into good assets, and provide that stability, not for a whole community that you operate the capital for. That's priceless, 36:03 nothing feels better, man. When you get those phone calls, or the handwritten letters like thank you changed my life, that kind of stuff. Oh, God. That's why I'm here. 36:11 And that's, I think it's a big part of it. Because like, some people know how to make money. Some people know how to preserve it. But if you can combine the two, and if that's your skill, and you're one gift that God gave you is to build or preserve capital or both. I hope you take it to whatever level you can, because there's a lot of people out there that all they know how to do is spend. 36:30 Yeah, thank you for saying that. That's, that's an important message. If you have a gift, you should use it absolutely. 36:36 100% 100%. If you have a gift, it shouldn't be there for like, I'm sure I don't know how about what your what your returns you gave to your investors last year was, but I'm sure it felt good writing a check. 36:47 Yeah, and we pay out every single month, it's real simple in our public fund the other funds that we did before or equity, so they kind of go up and down a little bit, there's a little bit of variation there and the returns the debt fund, our public fund is flat 8%. So it's something you can count on. It pays out every single month. So that's a big advantage to a lot of the other syndication or other type of passive investing strategies. Because those, you might lock up your money for a while and not get anything while they, you know, add the value to the real estate. This is day one income. 37:18 I love it, man. I love it. 8% flat rate return, I might send some dividend people to you because I'm sick of them getting into 4% returns, it's aggravating. 37:29 Let me know if I get home and I'd love to. 37:32 It's aggravating because I'm like, there's some of there's so many better places to put that capital. And everyone's like, well, I'm trying to get my retirement number I'm like, if she found a better rate of return, you can retire quicker. 37:43 Yes. And at all. Because look, inflation is at 5%. And that's down from 9.15%, you're telling me you're getting four, which is actually good return, you're still less than inflation. So your your buying power is eroding. With your 4% return, you'll never hit retirement. 38:02 I say 4% is too close to two inflation 38:07 is lower right now. I mean, inflation will come. 38:09 I know it goes up and down. But it's too close to inflation. Either way, whether it's three or five or higher. I feel like some of the sentences you said are like stuff that I've been saying for a long time. I'm like, I feel like I'm preaching to Britain to the walker thing. But I'm like, it's gonna stick to somebody. And I'm going to keep saying my message because like, I want everybody like when it when it really comes down to it, I want everybody to get a good rate of return. If you're at that point where you can invest, I want you to get a good rate of return, I want you to like there's no reason why you shouldn't you worked hard for that money you saved you invested, you did all that stuff for investing, I want you to get a good return. That's the bottom line. 38:52 And I want you to be safe about it. So and also go for the homerun. I mean, if you see the 35% return on this specific investment, do it within reason do it but let's just don't put all of our money into that. Like let's spread it out a little bit. So we have some income coming in from somewhere else. I'm just that's I really believe in the diversification and just being smart 39:14 and smart. Where can people find you online? What's your YouTube channel? We got pine financial group.com I'll put it here on the video. What's your YouTube channel? I haven't checked Yeah, 39:24 YouTube channel is youtube.com backslash pine financial. We do one video a week. So nowhere near what you're what you're producing. But they're real short. You know, they're little 510 minute videos about real estate investing. So tips and tricks, what we're seeing what what's working, what's not. We do some market update stuff, but it's a lot of strategy. So that would be a good place for real estate investors to explore. But yeah, pine financial group.com is the best way to reach me. 39:49 There you go. Man, Kevin. It has been a really good conversation. It's kind of refreshing because I love talking about finance. Thank you and like it's refreshing to me just because like I enjoy this side of it more than any other side. And my partner's the the land investor here, they'll jump fences and get contracts and take people out to dinner. And I'm like, let me just let me let me get my TBI. And 40:16 I'm like, I'll do all of that. But I prefer to be behind the desk and the number. So I agree. 40:21 Yeah. So that's I said, I feel like we connected on different level. But this is this has been such a great interview. I really appreciate your time. And I appreciate your rescheduling with me and getting on the calendar because this has been amazing. Everybody here kind of answered a group they can go check out Kevin, what you got to do to Chairman Google and sounds about the finance side. You'd be surprised what leverage and information you can get out there if you search for it. And it's all about going to the right places, because there's plenty of information out there but you might be sort of the wrong person. 40:50 And I appreciate you having me on. Thanks, Daniel. 40:54 For everybody here go likes to scratch here with this episode with a friend. You know what to do. I gotta tell you, we'll see on the next episode, guys, thanks for tuning in. Have a good one.