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Feb. 14, 2023

Ep 329: Matt Cavanaugh, Creating Your Dream Life As An Investor

Ep 329: Matt Cavanaugh, Creating Your Dream Life As An Investor


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0:01 Welcome to this episode of the hybrids podcast. I have a special guest, Mr. Matt Cavanaugh, and I also have my guest host, Anthony Gaona. We are Matt Kavanaugh as a podcast host of the Freedom chasers podcast. He does his amazing guests, I think I think we didn't, we've kind of rubbed off on a little bit, a little bit on him a little bit of my talk a little bit, but he's jumped up to one episode per day, which is nonsense. I thought we were the only crazy ones to do that. But I think we might have inspired him and pushed him to do that out of talking to me. But we're, it's inspiring to help inspire other people just to create because I think most people in the world are consumers as a whole. So we meet other creators that want to create more, because you're creating more, I think it's a great synergy that's just created out there in general, just by having conversations and meeting cool people actually met him for the first time, Vegas at the types of it a few weeks ago. And it was kind of cool meeting some other podcast hosts and just being cool people in general at events and stuff like that. So no further ado, we have Anthony and Matt, how you guys doing today? 1:04 Great, man, thanks for the invite. 1:06 Man, I appreciate you coming on man. It's, it's always cool to like to give and take with other podcasts host because it's a it puts you change the seats, change the scenery, you know, totally 1:20 young and to your point early on, like, you know, we were at the event together, didn't know each other was going and ended up, you know, meeting up connecting. And then we got some great Filipino food and kind of walked away from some of the event for a while. Because the strategies that we were laying on each other were were pretty awesome. But yeah, I mean, like no doubt about it, you started before us. And you were like launching so many episodes. So, you know, having you on the podcast was a big deal for us, not just because of the content that was created. But because of the strategy. And obviously, you know, before this call, we're throwing strategies back and forth, throwing guests back and forth. You know, just to obviously provide as much value to our audience as possible. 1:58 Yeah, it's a definitely cool exchange. That doesn't happen very often. But when you when you come across somebody that that's in the same, like thought process, it really helps out a lot. So Matt, first question I always like asking is like how long you've been in real estate? And how'd you get into real estate? Because it's, it's a different path for everybody. And I don't know, I kind of fell into it. So what's what's your story look like? 2:19 I'll go super quick. I was a math teacher. You know, it was impacting kids loved it didn't make enough money to provide for a family and have my wife stay at home. So I left and what and b2b sales, the b2b sales job allowed me to build skills and income. And as a result of building skills, I built a self confidence that gave me the mindset that I could actually make a business work, so on and so forth. And I was with that job for three and a half years, and then did a little bit of investing on the side, the investing off of one deal made as much as my job made in one year. And that kind of allowed me to have the confidence to make the jump. I did have a limiting belief early on that that investment was probably just lucky. So I actually went as an agent, and I started my business that way. But because of the sales background, I was able to get a lot of clients right away. And so from 2015 till about 2018, I was just churning transactions and building a team 2018 I switched a little bit State as an agent still doing agent work, but became heavier and heavier investor focused over the last four years, four and a half years. And so what happened like the big story for me was in 2018, I bought a triplex I think I told you about it on a different one of our episodes, a triplex, I held it for two years, and along with another flip, and sold those for a total profit of like $330,000. That profit along with the down payments went into a purchase in Chicago, where these properties are rented by the room, and so that the rents on that property when I bought it were 11,300 a month, that was the contract rents. And the only money I had in the deal was my two down payments. And so I went from zero equity, we'll call it 100k equity, the down payments to almost 800,000 in equity and about, you know, whatever 11,300 A month is in in rents. Now, that's not profit, you know, we have some expenses and, and things and taxes. But that to me was so transformational, because it was like I had done hundreds of agent transactions by 500 to 1000 if you're counting the team that I had, and I made decent money, but we were talking about five transactions, and in five transactions going from zero to like, I could probably retire on this. It was like mind was, you know, woken up and the game was changed. 4:35 That's incredible, dude. So what kind of got you into the investor side of things? Like did you meet a mentor somebody else that was doing it? Did you just mirror it after? 4:43 You know, it's crazy. I'm so glad you asked that question because so I had seen people investing but I had justified in my mind that it was better be an agent. I thought by the time I buy the property I put the money in I pay the hard money I pay the taxes on the short term capital gains. I I'm going to make 20 or 30,000 instead of 10. So why do all that work and take all that risk when I could just be making $10,000 like clockwork? And then I have a friend, which is your friend to Daniel, maybe yours as well, Anthony and Chris Orianna. And Chris Orianna was just like, Hey, Matt, your strategy is wrong. Now, he didn't have the clout to prove it. Like he wasn't a big time investor. But he was just consistently like persistent. Like, this is the path. So him and I play chess on our phones, like we talk all the time we have, you know, we're just buddies. So finally, he had told me enough times where I'm like, Fine, bro, like, just out of out of fairness to our friendship. I'll just start telling people, I'm an investor, and stop giving the investor deals away to investors, but just taking it for myself. And literally five transactions later, I could stop working if I wanted to. So now funny story. And is he still like, like, he does a lot of wholesaling and stuff. And he just told me about a deal. He's going to wholesale. But we need to encourage him to actually buy property and hang on to it. Like he's not hanging on to properties, but he was the catalyst. And as a result of that, we ended up going together to Nebraska, to a conference, and I've done quite a few since then. But Chris Ordonez was my big person, I want to say thank you, too, for, for helping me switch directions. 6:15 Now, I love this story, man. That's kind of like the story that we all hope for. When we get into real estate, you know, like, I'm gonna make this big. I saw the YouTube videos, right? You struggled for three to five years, man, congrats, you've to hitting that stride and making it happen quickly. 6:30 Thank you, it's become a big passion of mine to give that information. And it's really interesting, because in the internet world is full of get rich quick schemes. And so people are on their guard. But like, I'm looking at this and going like, well, I could teach you how to be an agent and how to spend your entire career trying to make it work. Or I could teach you this other strategy. And you guys are doing no different, right? You guys are doing seven figure land deals, right? Multiple six figure land deals. And so it's like, the only difference between what you guys are doing now. And what we're doing is the strategy, and some basic skills that we put together. I mean, Daniel, I remember when you were on our podcast, like your first two single family deals, like blew up, you know, and then you went in a lane and killed it, like, so that's a big thing that I want to do is I want to continue to grow and succeed. But I want to give back. So I want to say people 1020 30 years on their journey by giving them better strategies to, you know, to cut straight to the to financial freedom. 7:23 I'm really glad you mentioned that too. Because like, I'm big, I'm big on Twitter, and I've been talking a lot of crap on Twitter lately. It's one of those things where like, I put it because I want you to show there's other strategies and like people, and this is this is for everybody here, if this is you, like I'm not poking at you directly. But like if you think flipping is the only way to make money. If you think being a Airbnb host is the only way to make money. Like there's better ways to do those things and make better profit with less work. And the only thing is, is like you might be the best land flipper in your backyard. And you're known for that. But like you're stuck in that blame position, because you're not looking outside. And you might have it figured out. But there's other things that may work out better than you were like, you're gonna look at it. And you're like, Man, I should have listened. I should have like, Get out of my own way and listen to other people's feedback. Because like, it's well, this is where I've come up with Twitter, I kind of poke at people a lot, because I want to I want to 8:18 hoping the box Yeah, 8:21 the box and they're like, What do you mean by that? Can you elaborate a little bit more? I'm looking for people that asked that question. Because if you're not thinking in that way, this is how many Anthony we've grown in so much in four years, you've been in real estate longer than both of us. But it's one of those things where like, me and Anthony, we're not afraid to ask a stupid question. And I think that's what separates us to get us faster where we wanted to go, is we're not afraid to like, hey, what do you mean by that? Can you elaborate? I've never heard that before. What does that even mean? Can you like, expand on that? And that's why we've grown so much in the real estate space in such a short time that like, we have, like 2030 years of knowledge and for years 9:01 100% And it's only a stupid question once and once you know it, you're not stupid anymore. So it's like, hey, if it's a stupid question you your answer, you're gonna stay stupid. So you might as well ask it and get smart move on. Yeah, 100%. 9:13 I think what Daniel is doing his genius on Twitter, because it's people speaking their truth. And they're giving great information. Right? They have these bullet points and these key principles, and they're actually really, really good. But also, I think what what Daniel is doing is he's exposing that's like, Hey, you're not looking at the other side of the coin, there's something very important that we're missing here. So even though you are speaking your truth, and it is valuable information, there's always other little things that you can different perspective that you can take, and I'm imagining that people might take him a little bit offensive, some of the things he says, but then he just goes ahead and lays out clear examples right underneath the post and people are like, wow, okay, that makes a lot of sense. So I was gonna, I was gonna back up a little bit something that we covered earlier, like, you know, you want to keep your eyes and your mind open to other opportunities, but also without getting falling victim to that shiny object. Yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of I feel like what we did in the beginning We started with land, but we checked into apartments and self storage and, you know, mobile homes. So we still kind of kept veering off the path, just making sure that we weren't missing anything. But now that we've really refined it down and just focused on land, and then more specifically bigger land deals, it's been a, you know, a great, I guess, Homecoming, right? Because we went full circle, we checked everything else out. But we found our niche, something that we're really good at. And it's very, very niche specific. It's kind of a strategy nobody's paying attention to again, but we love it. We're comfortable here. And I think you got to go through that. You got to check everything, you know, push all the buttons, see what happens. And then like, then really, really niche down real hard. And so one strategy and then just run it over and over again. 10:40 Yeah, yeah, exactly. And like that was for me. I mean, I knew so that usually, like investors will say, invest in what you know. So for me, I knew single family. If you don't know anything, invest in what you like, because then you're going to be most likely to want to be curious to know, and then you'll learn and once you know that you can invest. And then for me, now that I've, I've, you know, acquired enough property. My main focus now is really, really doing what I love, which is exactly what we're doing right now having conversations. And so for me, if I'm giving advice to somebody, like, I don't care what strategy they do, like if they're coming to me for advice, or for coaching, like, I'm not going to tell them what strategy to do, I'm just going to say, hey, like, I'm more focused on their criteria, the timeline, the path, etc. Because as you guys know, you know, there's seven figure deals in almost every asset class. Oh, yeah. I mean, maybe not. I mean, even in single family, you could do million dollar deals, single family, multifamily, for sure. Mobile, home, Park, storage, land, etc. If you make seven figures on a deal, you do the right tax stuff, and then you go ahead and invest it into cash flowing assets. Any one particular deal will retire you if your definition of retirement is 10,000 a month, which most people's are. 11:49 Yeah, that will carry you a long way. Yeah, we do know a couple of people out in Florida that are doing nothing but multi seven figure multiple, seven figure houses. Yeah, that's a pretty good living. So like you said, you can kind of touch it anywhere. 12:01 Exactly. And you know, your guys's deal, and you told me about on the on the show was like, basically, you're creating a seven figure profit, but you're not taking the profit upfront, you're taking it in payments over, you know, 10 to 30 years. And it's like, like, that's the dream, like you're doing a deal. And you could live off that deal for 10 years, or 30 years. Like that's just like, that's what I what I want to get out to people. That's why I'm so excited that you know, that we're doing this together, is it's like a deal can get you retired five or 10 should be like no problem if you're if you're focused in the right direction. And it's like, how long does it take to find five deals? You know, I mean, clearly if you have people working for you. 12:43 Yeah, 100%. Man. One thing, one thing I really want to hit on, too, is, I think, I think a lot of people you mentioned early on was surrounding yourself with like minded. And you mentioned Chris, and Chris is a friend of mine, I've known Chris for three years. Being by yourself sucks. And entrepreneurship is like, you may feel like you're by yourself a lot of a lot of the time. But the thing is, is people out there doing the same thing you are, you've got to find your circle. And I think it's really, really cool that finding your circle kind of pushed you into a new envelope where you kind of created a new version of yourself, which is always amazing. I love I love hearing that. I love hearing that side of 13:16 it. Yeah, it's like men in black, like you guys probably watch that movie. So I'm going to black, you know, the get the locker. And then you discovered in the movie, there's a bigger locker. And it's like, you know, like I grew up in maybe middle classes, like family, you know, and so people that were worth a million to 5 million like that was that was it like you knew the billionaires existed? But until I got into groups, where the million is the ante, I didn't realize like how many successful people out there were like doing how many things like, it's wild, like. So yeah, I mean, it's everything. Like if everybody for the most part you're hanging around is doing crazy stuff. Like I feel so small, so small, like if you put any of our incomes into a percentage net worth calculator, not net worth, but like, like, what percentage of the population? Are we like, are we top 5%, top 1% And then take our net worth given our age, like, we're going to be in the top five, if not the top 1%. And yet, the groups that I'm going around makes me feel like I'm in the nine top 99% Like I got 99% to go. 14:19 Yeah, at the types of that walk into that room. I felt like I was pretty, pretty seasoned qualified to be here. And then they say, Oh, we're doing $100 million SkyRise in LA. Mm hmm. I guess there's levels? 14:30 That's exactly right. Right. They raised $2.5 million in zoldyck coins and one or two days, right? If not one or two hours. And yeah, I mean, it just shows like and that's one of things I love about real estate and businesses like, you know, obviously we all have different reasons for making money in the charitable things we want to do with it, but like it kind of as a scorecard for the amount of skills that you have, and the strategies that you use. And so it gives, you can complain about the amount of money you have, or you can realize like hey, this is a reflection of of the action that I'm taking or the skills that I have, or the strategies that have or the relationships that I have. 15:05 That's what I love about this business, I think more than anything is the relationships. So you are where you are, like I said, even if you're doing even if you are that top two or 1%, right, but then like you said, there's different different levels. So even us, we're like, right now our average deal had been like maybe one to 2 million, somewhere in that sweet spot, we just found a send out a contract for three, five, we're negotiations for one for six, five. So it's like now we're starting to understand that it's all the same game. And as long as there's, there's a clear understanding on both sides of the coin between the buyer and seller. And we have a clear strategy. It's like, the rest is history, because it's the same blueprint that we're using, and we can just stamp it on anything. So now we're going to look at one that's 15 million, the guy says, I'll fly you out in the helicopter, so you guys can come see it. So it's like, alright, you know, it's kind of cool, because even though we've never been there, but what we're doing is we're not relying on our own intelligence or knowledge. We're also always reaching out to people that are ahead of us to say, hey, I have something in the pipe that I'm just not too sure I'm okay. I can probably fund half of it. Maybe a quarter of it. But I don't know what to do with the rest. And so this guy says, Yeah, I have two or three people we can call if it makes sense on paper. So slowly, but surely, we're building out the network. We're building out the the new skill set, and then going into that comfort zone, and I could see us someday trying to take down $100 million land deal, right? It sounds weird. But it's coming, you know. 16:18 Absolutely. Love it, man. Yeah. And that's exactly. It doesn't matter what asset class you're in. It all works. They've all got those those layers to them. It's just Yeah, it's love it. 16:30 Let's make a pivot to the podcast, man. So it's your podcast? When did you launch it? How many episodes you're in? Who's been your favorite guest who 16:39 we recorded? Yeah, we probably recorded 150 Plus episodes. Now we've released close to 100. We are and we started, we started recording in May we started we're launching in October. So I haven't told you this, Daniel, but we're about ready to put it on, you know, even more force. So instead of releasing seven now, Tim is recording seven how tos. And we're going to record one together every single day. So we're gonna record between 19 and 21 episodes a week, starting today, because I got back from from Mexico this weekend. So now, if we actually were able to follow through, you know, in the next 12 months, we're going to do what it's like, like 1000 episodes or something like that. So yeah, we love it. Who's our favorite guest? That is like impossible to answer. Like, you have to get more specific. So like, I love deep story. So we have people that are overcoming just insane things from like an emotional standpoint, which is like meaningful to me because I was in the ministry. And then we have guys who've done insane things. Like we mentioned you guys a lot because like the appeal of like a quick seven figure profit is amazing. So gosh, like maybe I can answer a top five or 10? I don't know. That's brutal. Like our guests are awesome. 18:02 I was gonna say if we had to go back and pick out our top one, like, I don't know, man, yeah, there's a lot of good connections made. 18:09 So so many. And then there's like, okay, the episode itself, like, was it? Was it the content? Was it the connection? Was it the fact that like, there's been podcast guests that I have that we've done stuff together outside of the podcast, there's guys like you, Daniel, like, we actually like, you know, got to eat food in an event together. So it's just impossible, like, what I'll say is like, it'll be hard to imagine that 90% of my friends group is not somehow involved in the podcast within two or three years. Because it's like, I'm constantly meeting every single day, I'm meeting people that are just unbelievable, and driven, and kind and all of the things that you want and friendships, you know, and guys, like you that are willing to tell me where I'm falling short, like, you're like, Hey, Matt, like, look at the branding that we have. Look at the branding that you have, right, like, level up. And like, in a lot of like non business friendships, like they're too scared to tell you that kind of stuff. You know, but in our type of friendships, like there's just there's no holding back. Because like we take it from a place of thankfulness and gratitude. And 19:11 yeah, I want to say I've had two conversations this past week, where the first thing I said to these people is like, I need your advice. Yeah. No matter where you are on the playing field, that you can always make that phone call or multiple phone calls. We say, hey, I need you to help me level up. 19:24 Yes, yes. And that's like, like most of the population out there, like they're scared to like make themselves vulnerable, because they've attached their identity to succeeding and failures, like, critical. Like, I don't know if you guys know Jordan Peterson, but he mentioned something that just like hit me deep and he feels the amount of maturity that someone has is the amount of truth that they're willing to tolerate. And I was like, oh, DAG, but I think that a lot of successful business people have a level of maturity because they are willing to digest so much unfavorable truth about themselves and take action on it. 20:00 mood, digest unfavorable, unfavorable truth about yourself. That's powerful man. 20:05 That's gonna be a video right there. That's, that's one of the coolest part about podcasting because I really wanted to get that question out of you. Because I know you got something good that I had never heard before. That you're holding back on. 20:18 Yeah, yeah, I probably got a bunch of things. If you ask the right questions, it'll like pop out. Like, 20:23 that's what I asked that little that loaded question, because I'm like, I'm gonna pull something out of this. I don't know what I'm gonna pull, but it's gonna be good. And that was it right there. That wasn't one of them. dopest thing about podcasting, man, you don't know what you're gonna get from each guest. And something sometimes it's like you said it's a cool experience a cool story. It's a life lesson. It's a lesson that you don't have to go through. Totally painful. 20:44 Really, really, really painful. Like, yeah, like, Okay, so let's talk software. Right? I spent multiple six figures in software, you guys use go high level built on top of it, right? Like you guys did it right? I have a couple other guys that actually built paid to build software that did it better. Like, if I would have had conversations with the right guys, before I started, I would have been able to take those six figures and put them into a much, much better direction. Like, you know, ignorance, whether you don't take people's advice, or you don't ask can be really, really, really expensive. Like crazy expensive. 21:19 And if the sad part is that you might lose some money, you can replace the money, but you can't replace the time lost. Yep. Yeah. So something that would have took you have like, let's say it has a two to five year learning curve. And you could have saw that in one to two phone calls. 21:36 I literally really only mentioned this, we mentioned this offline, and I want to bring it up on the call. But what is time savings by education worth? 21:46 Dude, it is it is unreal, like so you can look at saving to multiple ways you can look at savings as as a sense of like, I'm not, it's not costing me right, like I don't have to pay for it, then you can look at it like the cost of mistakes would have. Or then you could look at it as more money earned. Or then you could look at it as time saved. Like, are you looking at his trajectory. So like, there's probably even more ways, but one of my philosophies now, because the deals that I bought the five deals that took me from zero to financial freedom, or at least we would call it financial independence, I didn't find any of those deals, none of them. And so like, my philosophy is a person working at W two, with the right strategy can go from zero to financially free, where the only work they're making is making connections and making decisions, they don't have to learn how to find a deal, they don't have to learn how to even really analyze the deal that well, because the information can be pulled from them by professionals, every single part of the process can be done by a professional all the way through. So they're just building what I would consider nine or 10 key relationships, and then making one or two key decisions. And they can go from zero to financially free not using any of their own money not using any of their own time not using any of their own knowledge, they don't have a knowledge. So that's the model that I'm working on. Like trying to perfect like I've done it for myself, I'm now starting to teach others but I want to perfect it to where like you could take a six year old and the six year old could build a retired amount of income. So that it could not be argued that you know, and not even my six year old because then they would say it's mad as your six year old they your genetics, right? 23:31 They're forced to produce 23:33 it. Yeah, like you got them in a sweatshop of the cabinet house you though in there like right now offers. But yeah, so that's the thing is I love philosophy. I love thinking like my degree was in math, but my my love was philosophy, but as a philosophy major, like in college, you know that that's not going to pay the bills. And so but that that has not left me and so I think there's not enough philosophical and strategical thoughts when it comes to the constructing of the path. And so you know, and for me, it's some of the the path that I have, I had to stumble upon it, and some was carefully crafted, but But you know, once you discover it, you can't unsee it. And so if we could save 100,000 People 20 years of misery, because 85% The polls are showing 85% people are unhappy with their job. Like like you asked, What's the cost? What's it worth to be unhappy for 20 years, like what dollar amount would somebody pay if they could push a button and not be in a job that didn't want for 20 years? 24:33 I don't know. Man, I'll tell you right along the lines of that I was in construction for almost 20 years. And I remember dude working seven days a week, 15 hours a day and coming home tired, like so tired that you need a daily beer just to be able to show up to work. And I'm like, Man, there has to be a way there's some way out there some there's something that I'm missing, you know, so if I could have had my fairy godmother, you know, give me some information 20 years ago and taught me about real estate or land investing like man, the The whole course my life would have been different, you know, everything and the people around me, my family, my friends, it would have just been a whole different run. So now having the information, I do feel that same responsibility like whether somebody does a deal with us or not, I gotta get this information into other people's hands. Like what 25:14 happened to the college in the university system took guys like you have a proven track record of doing deals and making money or guys like me, right? And they're like, hey, instead of giving them a loan, so they could spend $160,000, in college, which has no guarantee of a job often doesn't produce a job. And if it doesn't, it's not perfect. And they'll allow us to go to the University of hive mind or the University of freedom chasers, like, what would that person's life look like after four years, right? I mean, the college system gets them to work and do all day learning in all day assignments. Right? If they did all day learning with you guys, and all day assignments, like their writing offers all day long. What does their life look like four years later? Like, if they're not completely and utterly, you know, financially free? 25:57 I don't know. That's a great question. 26:01 It will lead to a stronger economy. 26:03 100%, like, Absolutely 100% Like, and we used to be on an apprenticeship model a lot more than we are now. Like, the accrediting system, you know, has taken away a lot of the ability of, you know, entrepreneurs and visionaries, from the ability to want to get the talent they need to scale, but to it, it deprives the people that are in the college system of actually pursuing people that are doing some pretty crazy things. Like like in college, generally, you're learning from people that haven't done it. You're learning from people that just went to school, learned it, and are teaching it but didn't weren't out in 26:34 the field. They didn't master the field. Yeah. They just know that judging from the book, you 26:40 know, can you imagine learning what you guys know, from a real estate agent certification class? Like you've never happened, there's no real estate agent certification classes that teaches you all the strategies you need to find hunt down, acquire deals and make six seven figure profits on a regular basis. Like it's not out there. 27:01 You got to be out on the field, man. It's like, like, you know, I always use the example of fighting because I was a boxer when I was a kid. It's like, you can't read enough books to learn how to fight that he's got to get punched in the face. 27:11 That's it. And that should be part of the education process, like teaching people like like the coach mentality, right? Like, you're gonna get hit in the face, like, you know, man up woman up, you know, like, go back, get your licks because you got hit in the face, it doesn't mean you're a loser. You know, keep going. 27:26 That's this business. And in that show, I mean, you like I said, you watch the YouTube videos, you hear from you hear from the guru, you're ready to go make some money. And it hurts man. It's a lot of you know, lots and lots of labor with no return on investment. Lots of being told no lots of being cussed out and hung up on. And it's like, the people that do have this thick skin, they go on to be, you know, great performers. And the other ones, they just, they roll off into something else. And the next thing you know, they have an Amazon drop shipping. And I'm not saying anything's wrong with that. I'm just saying they completely skip out from the real estate stuff, because they're tired of getting punched in the face. Totally. 27:55 Yeah. They're doing solar. Yeah. 27:58 Yeah. The solar cells you bother. And for the ones that are doing it with everything they've gotten, they're killing it, you know, kudos. 28:07 Yeah. There's, there's, like we said, There's magic and everything. Yeah. But I think the main thing is to build up that thick skin and build up that experience. And, you know, like you said, take those shots and be able to perform it to continue to move forward even when it hurts. I think we can see that resilience in people like as soon as we start training, somebody who's new, you already know who's going to kind of pop through there like that guy that like, Hey, I'm up on 400 times a day and cuss out 28 times, I'll see you guys in the morning, make it the other ones where they get cussed out. And then they're afraid to pick up the phone this time, they're afraid to even afraid to do prospecting, oh, man, if they got, they got the feelings hurt already. You know, I don't know if they're gonna be able to sustain it for the next six to nine months or a year till you get some momentum. 28:45 Yeah, and I've been in the b2b sales world where we did prospecting. And then I was when I was an agent, I prospected a lot. So you know, I probably made I don't know, multiple six, six figures in terms of number of dials, hundreds of 1000s of phone calls. And when we call expired, we get cussed out fairly frequently. And it was interesting, like for me, the for anybody out there that might be doing calls that might be struggling, like one of the things that really helped me was the way that I personified the person on the other end, like, you know, when they're cussing me out, like, I would picture them with like a really red face and with them like spitting out of their mouth when they're talking. And I made the personification so big that I like I was literally laughing inside and there was even times I couldn't control it. I just started laughing on the phone, which was not not not ideal, but like, it was one of those things where like, most of the time, people have a hard time because it's like they they're feeling rejected as opposed to like, literally, it's not your problem that this person is going to blow up at the two second problem, you know, so for anybody out there that's in sales, like that's like step number one is like just make sure that anybody's opinions or frustrations like that's their decision. You know, you stay balanced and keep going. 29:51 I think I have a lot of compassion for those people. The way that I see it is like something's going on in their life that already they're in a position to explode right at the drop of a hat. So what else is going on in your life, it must have a lot of things going on. There's a lot of pain already built up. So there's no way I could be mad at that person or offended by that person. I feel more compassion to them. It's like so nothing against me like, Man, I don't know what's going on with that guy, but I feel bad for him. 30:13 So I got a question for you guys. So you guys are salespeople. I'm a salesperson, my wife and I have debates on this. So I'm curious to get your take. So I am generally harder on salespeople. My rationale is, hey, if they're good, or they're going to be good, I'm helping them. And my wife is like, hey, professional courtesy, like, you should be nice to people, like you're a salesperson, like what is your guyses mode of action when someone calls you and is trying to sell you something? 30:41 I'll go first and this one, I give them pointers. Like I went to the mall the other day, and I was talking to my wife and the dude, the dudes like he's like, Am I doing sales sales? Like just be confident understand what you're selling, and I'm gonna give him a pointers is that oh, you're in sales? And like, Yeah, I'm in sales. He's like, Why do you think I did? I'm like, Dude, you gotta you gotta you got to be confident what you're doing. I can sense you're not confident. As rule number one, be confident understand what you're doing. So for me, I'm a little bit more compassionate because sales people go good salespeople have been through the fire. And they've been they've been punched in the face a lot of times. And sometimes like, I'll punch him in the face, but it's general. 31:25 Exactly. Let me tell you all the ways you can improve 31:31 it's my take. 31:32 I've done both to men when they call me sometimes I'm just like, very like, what is this call about? A sales call? Yeah, man. I'm super busy. And I don't have time brother, man. I appreciate you anyway. So guys for like, you know what time it is this call. This call is over. 100%. And then also I've done that I've done with Daniel has done to like, did you just third party story me? Did you just feel felt found me? 31:54 Yes, yes. You're just calling out the labels. 31:57 Yeah, I'm like, I get it. Man. You're new keep on doing it. Sounds good on the phone. Have a good day, man. I gotta go. Yes. Yeah. So I guess it's a little bit of everything. Yeah. I always like those dang marketers. Then you go back to your marketing gig. Yeah. 32:18 So it was one of the this is a side story for me and Anthony, we were in Vegas and we went to Fremont. And those the street hustlers selling. Nothing hilarious. 32:30 Selling nothing. Okay, so describe this more. Okay, 32:33 so I'm gonna jump in the story. So we walk up and they're in the middle of their thing. And Anthony wants to go he walked off. So I was watching these guys. And they start news. They start to music and everybody's doesn't know Fremont is people they're in. It's like street entertainers. They come in and do whatever. So like, they start up forming, getting information. They start playing the music during the dance. crowd starts forming. Nothing happens. And they bring up we need everybody come in. We can't block the pathway back the pathway. They'd never dance. 33:04 Yeah, they're they're stretching, they're bending down. They're warming up. They're taking the jacket off. The music's blasting like, come on, gather round, gather around, everybody gather around. So this big crowd forms, like, Okay, let's get ready. Hey, guys, we don't work for free, you know, make sure you tend to start passing the tip bag around, people are dropping dollars in theirs. And there's really nothing that happens, man, there's no performance sometimes. Like they might do one or two things at the end, like do some kind of crazy flip or something. And that's it all day long. They're just they're just hustling entire crowds for money. I'll talk no show over and over again. Dude. Once that one's over, they're quiet for 10 or 15 minutes, and then bam, you hear blast. The music starts blasting again. All right, everybody get ready. And I'm telling you about their back. They're like this and like this. And like you're like, these guys are about to go off them do anything. 33:47 That's no funny. And they're just so all of us non dancers. That's the way we can make money if we get in trouble. 33:54 Straight to tick tock of Fremont Street. 33:57 Right. So funny. It's just interesting to see like, they sold that whole crowd. But then somebody. Right? It was very entertaining to see because I'm like, Man, if I taught it mean, Anthony spent a day with that person to talk the real estate game, that'd be dangerous. 34:18 Oh, dangerous. It's like think of all the talented professionals out there that if they know what we know, you know, 34:26 they'd be they'd be so dangerous. And I think it comes down to the point where like, if you can sell smoke, you're, you're in the wrong business. 34:33 We actually have a great product we have, you know, great relationships being formed, you know, great knowledge. I mean, so you're offering a lot for sale, and then there's people out there that are just good at selling air. 34:44 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like when you combine those two things, it gets crazy. I mean, like you guys are selling a high end product versus on a high end product. So we could, we could give somebody a $25,000 product and help them make 100 to 200k. You know, these guys I'm We could probably sell five or 10 times more than we could in the same space. 35:04 So I want to, I wanted to talk about this. And I learned about this when we were in Vegas. But Mr. Matt here has a cool business model, which I want to I really want to dig into. You're a hired gun. Yeah. Hired Gun. So have you launched this yet? And where can people learn about this, because I really want to talk about this. 35:23 Yeah, so they can go, they can go to coaching dot freedom chasers, And then they can book a call. And then what we'll do is we'll do a call with them, it's absolutely free, we'll give them strategies on that call. And then that's our kind of way of, I would never want to sell anything to anybody that isn't going to be a huge among us benefit to them. So if they don't have the finances, or they're just not in a position, or it's not the right fit, I'm going to show them all the free resources that we have the 21 podcasts that we do a week and all this type of stuff. If they're already doing some things and they've got some money, and they I could see they're going to be able to make it happen, then then we could talk about this high end product. But basically what I've done for a long time for years now is I've closed listings for my team and all these different states. So my sales skills have been very, very well honed, and my favorite thing to do is negotiate buying properties for a lot, lot less than they're worth. And so people in my pod that I've been in, like they started having me do it. And so like I'd hop on one call and close the deal, that type of thing, like I'm not 100%, like any salesperson is not but But bottom line is I feel very confident that I'm better than probably 90% of the of the reps out there based on the number of reps that I have and experience. So the product that we're essentially offering is one, we can provide all the strategies that we've learned from hundreds of interviews with multimillionaire real estate investors. Plus, as they get into these deals that they're finding, we can help them structure their buying criteria, help them deliver on the negotiations. And as you guys know, like, there are a lot of ways to buy a property, you can buy property with cash, you can buy property creatively with funding with private money like and the way that you buy, it can make such a difference in how many you can do in the profit that you get. So basically, we're accepting a retainer fee for a period of time a year to three years, depending on the program. And then they have access to us. And so as a result, we help them negotiate your deals, we help them the strategies, and we connect them to our to our contacts. 37:18 And I love that business model as though 37:21 the reason why I like this too, because I have my own hired gun. It's this guy. 37:25 Yeah. Right. And that's usually how it works, right? It's partnerships, as opposed to like, okay, not not, obviously, you guys got a great thing going on. But like if someone like, Hey, I don't want it to give up 50% of the equity of my company, like, Hey, I could hire this guy for X amount, it just depends on how much volume they're doing. If they do one deal, we probably will make them a lot more than what they spent. But if they do 10 will make up hundreds of 1000s of dollars more than they spent. 37:48 Yeah. And then this goes down to the point where Anthony like talks about this a lot too, is that if you are a sales closer, and you do that for a living, you're a dangerous person. And this is where Anthony is down to the point where like, Anthony's cold calling for some of our clients, like I'm on the fly because he likes closing. And like I think it's a and this is one of the great things about that is that if you're putting that position more often become more dangerous. We're like now we're teaching these bigger deals, and things like I'll get on the phone with any one of those because now I'm understand, I know what to ask and know what to say. And I can close these bigger deals because I've done it multiple times. I think it's an exercise of actually talking to those people that gives you the benefit of taking that to the next level whenever you are talking to those high level people. And you can talk to anybody at that point if you if you can close bigger deals. 38:35 100%. Yeah, and I mean, especially for the ethical salespeople out there, that we're not going to buy a property where the seller isn't completely understanding of what's going on. They want to sell on those terms. You know, when everything is ethical and aboveboard, like, it's a great feeling. And you're helping people move on make decisions that they want to make anyway. So like, I really do see the value in salesmanship. Like I mean, like, you guys are doing land, how many people would just not sell their land if you guys didn't come along? Because they had been sitting for months, like so. It's cool. You know, a lot of people have sales resistance. But it's like without salespeople in the world, a lot of people's lives would be a lot worse. 39:15 I love that you said that man, because I really do love what I do. And I think it's honorable, and I feel proud of what I do. We don't we don't use any kind of weird, shady sales tactics. A lot of these big land deals, especially if they're listed, they're never moving, then, you know, there's nobody walking around scribbling checks for two and $3 million. Just that's just not reality, you know, it's going to take probably years for that stuff to move. And we'll come in and move it in 90 days, right. So you know, as far as being ethical is concerned, like in the beginning, like any other wholesaler, but I don't know what to say to this guy. It's just like, get the contract and flip it. And now we've refined our pitch, right? And the last several pitches that I've done now has just been the you know, give the whole entire strategy to the agent from start to finish exactly how the play is going to run a to z with no holes. Isn't it and we've been added to our back end paperwork now. So it's like the most transparent we've ever been. And with that, I found that it's easier to close that way. By laying it all on the table, the percent funniest thing ever. 40:12 Exactly. It's the confidence is what leads to the closing the transparency makes it even more likely, I think that's where people get confused, like, Oh, I gotta like fudge this or obscure this. It's like, the reason I attract exactly the reason they're not closing with you is because you're not confident. The second that you display the unwavering confidence, they're going to want to do business with you. And then you just have to give them the transparency and the information they need. So there's no hurdles. Well, and you guys like, so we were talking while I was in Mexico a few days ago, like we have a listing that has had some trouble, you know, because the problems with the property are more than most buyers want to, to handle. So we're we're potentially going to maybe be able to work something out where we can solve their problem like, that's the cool thing is that generally, like good companies solve problems better than other companies can solve them. And when you're working either because you're the product, or you're working for a company that's better than other companies in at least in innovation, the sales process becomes so easy, because it's like, that person is unserved without you 41:15 do that, too. Yeah, I talked about that. In one of our recent mastermind calls, I said, like if I don't get the deal with that seller, I feel like I let them down. Because they could have experienced working with our company. Yep, we could have had so much value like we brought, we're bringing so much to the table that I genuinely feel bad for them for not going with us because we were about to show them something amazing. And I fill them in. And recently, what we've done now on our coaching calls is we're having people like bring their properties and bring their phone numbers. As long as the deals vet out. We'll go over it quickly. And then I'm just calling them off right there live on the spot so people can hear that. But yeah, like I said, it's been a really cool transition. And the more transparent we've become, he said that your confidence goes up, because now you're telling like, Hey, here's exactly what I'm gonna do. And there's no fluff, and there's no hype. And yeah, they hear it on the other end of the phone. Like, that sounds actually sounds good. So I'm like, dang, if I knew when it was that easy, it would have started there. Right, but you don't know what you don't know. 42:06 Exactly. Yeah, yep. You just get in the field and keep rockin and then the next thing you know, you're you're humming, 42:12 you see that that question all the time everywhere is like is wholesaling, ethical. And I'm like, man, these guys must be doing it wrong if they feel guilty about what they're doing. 42:19 Yep. Well, I mean, there's a lot of stigma in the world, right? There's stigmas around making money. And that's, that's what's so interesting is like people in them in the internet world, there's a lot of trolls out there. There's a lot of haters, like, you know, they have to work really, really, really, really hard in really tough jobs to make $70,000 a year. And you're out there doing 300k A million dollars on a single deal where he spent 10 hours. And that it's hard for them to comprehend why that makes sense. 42:47 That's gonna hurt some feelings because I was that guy, you know, killing myself. I said blood on my hands. You know what I mean? Literally, to try to make 100 grand a year. 80 grand a year? Yeah. 42:57 Yeah. What is a quote that is yours or somebody else's that you resonate with? I know, we're here to get one earlier, which is amazing. But I'm trying to get Oh, dude, 43:05 I can give you quotes for days, I just. Yeah, I just got off a call with Shane McGraw, great person who is on our podcast. And we've been chatting a lot this weekend, he said more value to more people in less time. That's his motto. So just resonated that super, super deeply. For me, like if we're talking about personal philosophies, like, I believe like, that people should be doing what they are naturally good at what they're naturally passionate about, and what their mission statement is all at once, and should not should not at all, at any point veer from that. So a lot of people will do one of those three things, maybe two. But like the power, the impact the feelings you get when you're doing something you're naturally good at. Like that also pays really well that you're passionate about. But it's serving a mission. So like when I wake up in the morning, one of the things I do in my morning routine is I think about who is the person that I'm trying to help. What happens in 30 years, if I don't do the activities I'm supposed to do today, who's still working that terrible job and who's miserable. Like and I think about myself when I was there, I think about the stress that I had, like I think about the decision that I had to make between ordering pizza on a Friday night or running our AC for the next week, because we didn't have enough money to do both. Like, like, I think about those moments and go, Hey, if I don't do this, so there's like there's an element of mission behind it. It pays really well. And I love it. Like my life when I compare how I felt about my life in 2009 when I was working compared to 2023 It's a completely different world. So I know that's not a quote, but 44:43 that's such a big mission. And I think I think that's a you have to find a really really big why to do this for fun. 44:52 Will do. I mean think about it. Like think about the amount of work you guys do. Like we're doing 21 shows now. Like we're working 50 to 60 hours a week, like right now, right relatively unpaid, right? Yeah, we make money here. We do a deal here and so on and so forth. But what do you think about the skill sets you have the skill sets we have the podcast side of the business is relatively for free, comparatively, you know, there's going to be some huge multi seven figure payoff in the end and so on and so forth. But but at the end of the day, like, if you're not doing it, because you love it, and you love people like it's a rough road. 45:22 So for everybody listening to this episode, we do it because we love it and like providing valuable information, so definitely go check that out as well. So definitely check out more episodes behind with this podcast, because we don't get paid. At least not right now for this 45:39 my jump off was real estate disruptors when you show the Steve training. Yeah, I mean, yeah, nothing. I'm like sitting alone in my apartment like man trying to just figure it out. And I episode after episode after episode, nothing was nothing was catching on. Nothing was catching on. And I was a woman that he was interviewing. Sorry, I forgot her name now. But that's when the light bulb just came on. In one episode, when she said that she was struggling in her business, she said, and I noticed that every time I spent more on marketing that my business improved. And that was like her main epiphany she had and so I had a simultaneous epiphany. I was like, That's it. I'm a marketing guy, but do marketing for 15 years. I just got to turn the lead flow all the way up, you know? And so that became my goal. And that's when things changed. 46:20 Love it, brother. Love it. Love it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we're kindred spirits, man. As salespeople, it's a not many people want to do it, you can do it. So love it. 46:33 As a creator is going to create consumers are going to consume and preachers are going to create and haters are gonna hate maybe. Where can people find you online? This has been such a great episode I think is worth bringing out again, just because I don't even spend almost 50 minutes and listen up like, This is so 46:53 fun. Yes, people can find the freedom chasers podcast on YouTube on Apple podcast. They can find me at link tree forward slash freedom chaser podcasters or Matt Kavanaugh on Facebook Matt cabbie, with two V's and a why on Instagram. 47:09 There you go. Go follow him. Put the links below. Great, great episode. Please go watch more episodes like this. We did a couple episodes after this. So if you're seeing this, we have more episodes with Matt, you'll check them out. We appreciate him coming on and give us some time for his valuable day. And go listen to 21 episodes a week. That's crazy. I feel like you just went up me. 47:28 I did not not to push you to do more. But if you did, you know, go ahead. 47:33 It benefits everybody involved, but I'm not gonna take it personally. I'm gonna let you do it for a couple months and then I'll see what results come of it and then maybe I'll do it. Maybe merit lengthening 47:51 I just saying thanks for coming on here. This is really really good 47:53 one. Thanks, guys. You guys are awesome. Appreciate 47:56 you still the next episode. Thanks for coming on. Enjoy it. See you the next one. Bye. Transcribed by

Daniel Esteban MartinezProfile Photo

Daniel Esteban Martinez

Host/ Ceo/ Speaker

I have been an entrepreneur since 2018. I come from a regular home just like most people. My dad worked on the roads in the Chicago area for over 30 years. He always taught me to work with my brain, instead of my body. Your body can only take so much abuse. I learned so much from my father. He always pushed me to work smarter and not harder.

I have owned and operated a trucking business for 2 years. I started learning real estate in 2019. Fell into the Data & Skiptracing business in 2020. My partner Anthony & I started Hivemind in 2021.

I have done a ton of different jobs coming up from painting, to door-to-door sales, telemarketing, truck driving, and loading trailers. What I learned most is that I want to stay in the digital business space. The leverage you can have delivering digital products to the marketplace can yield limitless possibilites.

I started The List Guys in 2020. It is a data and skiptracing service. We provide seller and buyers list nationwide. My clients have been getting great results and I am proud to help people killing it.

I started the Hive in 2021 with my partner Anthony Gaona. It is a real estate and business mastermind. It also comes with a all in one CRM, that can host unlimited websites and users.

Starting the Hivemind has been an amazing journey so far. Seeing one of our users make his 6 figure month in June 2021 leveraging our software, I know there will be plenty more to come!

Anthony GaonaProfile Photo

Anthony Gaona

Host/ Ceo/ Speaker

Hi! I am Anthony Gaona.
I’ve been in digital marketing for almost 15 years.I grew up in construction working for my dad when I was only 12 years old. Normally we had a ton of work or no work at all so a lot of my free time was spent learning how to generate leads.

It didn’t take very long for me to master online marketing because I became absolutely obsessed with it. For the last 15 years I’ve been generating construction based leads. At first I was running the projects myself. This led to sub-contracting all of the excess projects and eventually wholesaling the leads off to other construction companies.

One day I was preparing to build a single family residence for myself. In mid December, 2018, a simple YouTube search led me to the term wholesaling and the rest is history. The plan was to use my construction background to start flipping houses. By January 1st of 2019 I launched several marketing campaigns both on and offline for real estate seller leads.

Within about 4-5 weeks I had my first real estate contract locked up. It didn’t take long for me get a land lead where I made almost a full year’s pay on a single transaction. This came from a land lead and that forever changed my life.

I ran low volume larger land deals for the first two years of my real estate career. Like anyone who has been in real estate investing for an extended period of time, I started thinking about scaling my business.

Instead of deciding to vertically integrated and start hiring I imagined a model where I would teach my real estate investing methods to others. This would free up my personal bandwidth and allow for unlimited large scale transactions.

Currently our operations are expanding globally. The goal is to identify one person per major US Market that we can build a team around and drive traffic to so we can close high volume transactions together.

You can learn more about our vision and join our free mastermind by joining hivemind CRM on Facebook and all social channels

Matt Cavanaugh

Investor / Agent / Podcaster / Strategist

Host of the Freedom Chasers Podcast. A real estate investing podcast that inspires people to achieve financial freedom quickly so they can spend their life doing the things they love. Matt created $11,300 a month in rental income on only 5 single family real estate transactions and helps investors develop strategies that can speed up the their financial freedom journey by years if not decades.