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Dec. 20, 2022

Ep 303: Understanding How To Use An IRA For Real Estate Investors With Zachary Wilson

Ep 303: Understanding How To Use An IRA For Real Estate Investors With Zachary Wilson
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0:31 Hello, welcome to today's show, we have a special guest today, we're going to learn a lot about stuff that I don't know. I mean, I have my co host, my co host, Anthony here as well. But we're working on some stuff that we don't know about. We're gonna have we have an expert here to talk about it. We have Mr. Zack Wilson from Quest IRA. How are you doing today? 0:49 I'm doing good. I'm doing good. How about you guys? Are Good. 0:53 I'm glad we're having this conversation. Yeah, I'm excited. Like I said, this is something that I've been wanting to learn and talk about for a while. So be pretty good for our audience to learn and, and like, what kind of opportunities can we look out for? So we're looking to like, always diversify our own investments, but then also, right, somebody else, maybe if they have an IRA, and we always have people offering us cash now, like, we're actually going through it right now. Somebody's trying to move some capital from the our IRA into an investment with us. And it's been a little challenging. And so I'm pretty excited to talk about this today. 1:21 Yeah, absolutely. And this is something that, you know, it's been available for a long time, and it's just now starting to get traction, right, it's just now starting to become more and more popular, people are hearing about it, especially when they want to move in from markets out of the public stream into the private, you know, in the, into the private sector, right, when they're looking for alternative assets, that this is where self directed IRAs really have their time to shine. So yeah, it's something that we really try to spread as much information. You know, we have tons of education on our website and our YouTube channel. And so the more awareness we can build about them, kind of the better for everybody. 1:56 Hey, so why don't we take it from the top man? Why don't you tell us what an IRA is? And when does a person need to open one? Or why might they want to look into opening one? 2:05 Yeah, absolutely. So an IRA, just an individual retirement account, right? It's going to function pretty similar to like a 401. K, the only difference is instead of it being tied to an employer, it's just for you personally. Right? That's really the only difference. Now, within IRAs, is that term, self directed IRA? Right? What is a self directed IRA? And how does it differentiate from a normal IRA? Well, to be honest with you guys, that term self directed, is really just a marketing term. There is no legal distinction between a self directed IRA custodian like quest, which is where I work versus Ira like Fidelity or Charles Schwab. Right, the only difference is the custodian themselves. Right, you can have a self directed IRA at fidelity. But they as the custodian only allow you to invest into publicly traded assets. Right? That's their niche, that's what they focus on. Whereas quest, we allow you to take those same retirement accounts, except put them into privately held assets, specifically real estate style investments, is what we as a custodian specialize in. Alright, so it's for everybody. It's that same account, just depends on what you're looking to get into. Right? So honestly, the earlier you can get an IRA set up, the better. The younger, the younger you are, the more attractive things like the Roth IRA come in, right? They they look really good, because instead of it being pre tax, where you're getting tax deferred growth, now you're getting post tax, right? So you're getting tax free growth, there's not many accounts that have the power that the Roth IRA has. That's okay, man. 3:43 And we're gonna have to distill some of that down a little bit, even for myself, right? I'm sure audiences have all the same questions I have swimming around. So why why do you want a custodian to hold on to your capital, instead of you just doing your own investments privately out of your own bank account? Where's the benefits? And then how to where are the tax advantages in this? Yeah, so 4:00 whenever we're looking at the different types of benefits for an IRA, there's really three distinct benefits. Right. The first one is the tax advantages. Right? So whenever you're making your investments, let's say you're doing a fixin flip, right? If you do that investment personally, right, you do you purchase the property, you fix it up, you flip it, any of that profit that's coming back, it's coming back to you personally, you have two options. Either you pay the taxes on it, or be you try to put it into something like a 1031. And and defer those taxes until later. All right, now, let's look at that same example except done in an IRA. Right? It doesn't matter what type of Ira it is, can be traditional Roth Sep simple. We'll go over all of those, but it's done in an IRA. Well, the IRA again, purchases the property, the IRA pays contractors to fix it up and the IRA sells that property when it receives that those those funds. Now, it negates the need for a 1031 right by nature. sure that IRA is getting those funds tax deferred, or in some cases like the Roth IRA, or even the ESA, it's growing, it's getting those funds and growing them now tax free. So it means you're not restricted. On the next investment, like some 1030 ones are right, they're going to restrict you on the type of investment, you can make the timeline the value, you get those funds back 100%. And now you can do as you please, either putting them in a self directed IRA, and redirecting that capital to a new investment, or putting them into something like a brokerage IRA, and just letting someone manage it for you. Alright, so that's, that's really the first big one those tax advantages. The second one, diversification, right. And this is where custodians that's focused on alternative assets. This is where our role comes in. Right? Because we're allowing you to take your money out of the public market, right? If you talk to a financial adviser, he's gonna tell you Okay, let's, let's get you in some, some low yield, low risk mutual funds, right, maybe let's buy some of those big blue chip stocks. And let's make purchase some bonds, right. But all of those options are really just putting your eggs in different parts, what is overall the same basket? Right? When you're in alternative assets through custodian like quest, it's allowing for that true diversification away from the public market. Now you're looking at things like real estate, you're looking at private money lending, you're looking at syndicating. Alright, so it allows really, for that true diversification into a market that most people know a lot better than the public market. And finally, kind of segwaying from that last top, from that last point is investing in what you know, best, right, through a self directed IRA custodian, you have full control, you're in the driver's seat when it comes to these investments. Now, some people have knowledge of, of the public market, right, they have knowledge of the stock market, that's where they're comfortable, awesome. For a lot of people, that's not their niche, right, they know, they put funds into a retirement account, like a 401 K and someone manages it, someone puts the money in the market, someone makes decisions as to when to pull it out, what what stocks to buy, what funds to go into, right? But if you want full control yourself, now you get to build off of the base of knowledge that you've built. So if you've got real estate knowledge, right, if you've gotten knowledge and private money lender your syndicating, you get to take advantage of that and leverage your retirement funds to build that future, instead of just trusting it to someone who's managing it for you. So I'd say those are the three big advantages when it comes to an IRA. 7:30 Now, a lot of people they does this count as a qualification as a credited investor, if you have IRA funds, there doesn't have to be in like a personal account. 7:40 So when it comes to being an accredited investor, I'm almost positive the qualifications are looking at either a your income, right? So I think it's, if you're filing single, it's like 200,000 a year in income for the past two years, or 300,000 of your filing jointly, or a million dollars in net worth. Right? Whenever they're running those, they're looking at you personally. Right. So the funds held your IRA going to kind of be separate from that from those qualifications. 8:06 Okay, that makes sense. Okay. And that was a blurred question. Because I'm like, I don't know the answer to that one that I'm like, I don't know if I'm countering. 8:14 I mean, I could have made something up just I could. 8:22 Man, so how do we how do we move our funds in and out of the IRA? So right now we have somebody who does have cash in the IRA, they're gonna move it into an investment with us. And it seems like there's a little bit of hurdles and red tape. So can you tell us a little bit more about how, okay, I want to invest into something, I want to hand it over to Daniel, how do I get my cash from you from inside my IRA into Daniels account now? And how do we take take title of the property? That kind of stuff? 8:44 Right? So really, there's a couple of factors at play here. Honestly, the biggest one is probably the custodian themselves. Right. So like I said, we can have a self directed IRA with quest, or we can have a self directed IRA and a public custodian like Fidelity, well, we try to make that investment with fidelity. And it's a private fund, or it's private capital, Fidel is going to tell you, Hey, you can't do that. They're not saying you can't do it, because it's not possible in an IRA. They're telling you, they can't, you can't do it, because they don't hold those types of assets. Right. So let's say you want to get into and you want to leverage your IRA funds, where you get in contact with someone like quest, right, at Quest Trust Company, what we're gonna do is we're gonna establish the same type of account for you. Right, then from there, we're gonna move the funds over because they're coming from another IRA. It's as simple as filling out a transfer form, we're going to initiate that movement of funds on your behalf. Now, if it's going to IRA, an IRA, it's super simple. It's not even reported to the IRS. Same thing as moving funds from like a checking account of chase to a checking account to Capital One, the IRS doesn't care what you do with that money. Now, if it's coming out of like, a qualified retirement plan, let's say you have like a 401 K 403 B, tsp. Well, it's still pretty simple, but you just want to be sure you have a separation of service. So you no longer work for that employer or be, you're going to ask them if they allow for in service withdrawals, otherwise known as in service rollovers. That's a whole different conversation, we can get into those. But essentially, we're gonna give you some delivery instructions, you give it to that administrator, let them know you want to roll the funds over into an IRA, then they send the check over to us. While we're waiting on those funds to arrive. It's as simple as you calling us and letting us know, hey, I want to make an investment within my IRA. Awesome, right? So you give us a call, you're not getting an automated line. So you're gonna have someone answer the phone for you. We're gonna ask a couple questions about this investment. Right? Just tell me a little bit about what that investment looks like. And then you're going to tell me, Hey, we're investing into a fund that's looking to raise capital for a syndication or a fund, that's, let's say, it's a fund right? In general. Awesome, we'll get you in contact with one of our private equity processes, they're going to work with you, as well as with the fund manager to gather up all the documentation. Right? So we're gonna help you gather up things like the subscription agreement, the operating agreement, stuff like that, right, which can seem a lot up front, right? For someone who's just getting into this, all these documents are like, oh, man, this is a whole lot. And we realize, right, we realize that you're going from telling some are pressing a button on Fidelity's portal, right? That you want to purchase a position. From now, you're working with actual documents in your hands, right. So because of that, we're going to hold your hand throughout every step, we're going to let you know, here's what we're looking for, here's what it needs to say, to be one and compliance, and two to be vested correctly, the name of the IRA. Alright, now mind you, all of this is happening, while we're still waiting on the funds to arrive, that we're knocking out two birds with one stone. Alright, so once we get it in, we're going to audit it internally. Right To be sure, there are no blatantly prohibited transactions, putting your account at risk, right. And again, to be sure it's invested correctly. And then once we've got the documents in, and the cash is available in the account, we can fund that investment in 24 to 48 hours. So we really make it as simple as possible, knowing that there's a lot of moving parts with investments like this. 12:05 I'm really glad you broke the clarification as far as the the whoever the word you said, but whoever is guiding that portfolio, they might have parameters that they don't do. And I think I think I think that's gonna differentiate like you might you need to look into who you're who you're creating the IRA, I know who you're suffering that full. You have as that was I were to use the custodian, custodian. Yeah. Where I'm like a stock counselors sometimes. So whatever your custodian is, is really important, because your custodian is going to make or break what you can invest in as a whole. Because it can, it can really put a damper on what you're really invested. 12:44 Yeah, exactly. And it's not a it's not always like, when they tell you, you can't do it, it's not always them, trying to prevent you from doing it. Right. Some of them just don't know. Simply, you can you're still talking to another human being right. And this person doesn't know that there are private asset custodians, with self directed IRAs, they're going to tell you like, oh, you can't do that in an IRA. Right? Hey, that happens, where we're not saying that they're doing this on purpose. Just keep in mind that yes, you can. Any just about any type of investment you can make personally, you can make within an IRA. There's a few exceptions, when it comes to that, right? What are the restrictions, you can't invest into collectibles? So things like, find vintage art, right? You can't do vintage cars, things that it's hard to get a hard appraisal on. Right? It's more subjective. You can't do that. And you also can't invest into life insurance policies. You can see the problem there if we allow people to invest into other people's life insurance contracts, right. So those are really the two restrictions that you can't do any other type of investment, you can probably do it within an IRA, just about the custodian you're talking to. 13:55 Let's talk about taking title to the property. Right. So now Daniel sells me some land, I'm going to invest it from my IRA account. So the IRA, actually, the company takes title to the property, 14:07 right? So the best way to think about it is that the IRA is its own entity, right? It has its own name, it has its own address even has its own social security number in the form of an EIN, right. So the IRA as an entity is going to be taking title. So for example, if you were if you had an account with quest, on the warranty deed, it's going to show quest company FBO, your name IRA, your account number, that's who's purchasing the property. Alright, so because of that, now, you take title to it, anything that needs to be done within that account, or I'm sorry, with within that property has to be paid for out of the IRA. And when it comes to this, I think it's important to mention the restrictions to an IRA. Right? Because of the tax advantaged account. The IRS says, okay, there are certain people that you cannot commingle your funds with That list is known as your disqualified parties. If you look on the IRS, its IRS section, IRC 4975, it gives you a real it's a whole thing. It's a whole list. And it's kind of hard to read. It's a little dense, but we've broken it down, essentially, it's going to be you, yourself, all right, as your spouse, your lineal ASINs. So parents, grandparents, your lineal descendants, so children, grandchildren, their spouses, and any companies that those people own control, manage are highly compensated by, essentially any companies that are affiliated with, right. Now, the reason those people are disqualified has to do with the flow of inheritance. Right? So if my, let's say, My dad has an IRA, and he wants to invest, or I want to invest with him, or he wants to invest me, whatever, right? What I'm really doing is growing an account that I'm going to eventually inherit, this is going to be considered self dealing, right with the IRS does not want to happen. So that's why they put restrictions on the up and down family trees. Now notice sideways doesn't matter why? Because as much as I love my sisters, they're not getting my inheritance. Right? That's just usually not how it works. Now, obviously, there are certain situations which that in which that's the case, and then they'll become disqualified as the beneficiary. But for the most part, those are the general rules. Alright, so as far as the structure of these investments go, it's really working the exact same, the only difference? It's not the IRS taking title instead of you personally. Okay, 16:36 yeah, I didn't really we like so we're doing paperwork with our first IRA. And we realized that, like, Okay, this is new, I never knew that, like this stuff, this dealing with this, it's kind of been eye opening to us, it's kind of interesting to have the conversation now. And we've been dealing with all this paperwork over the last like two weeks. So kind of like understanding this from our side of it as part of the person taking the money in as a as a as a private as an investor investing that capital from an IRA person. So it's kind of interesting having in seeing what what happens on our site to versus actually creating it on their site. So there's different different aspects on both sides that we're seeing now. 17:13 Yeah, exactly. And you as the one raising the capital from the IRA, right? It's, it's not until you start to deal with it, like you said, that you realize, like, oh, man, I need to have like this exact name, or I this is it's got to see exactly word for word. Right. And now, we have to use this address, and we can't use their, the, their social security number, we have to use the IRAs EIN, right. And it's all these different factors that you don't know until you get there. But once really, once you do your first one, the next one's become much easier you realize you're kind of dealing with, you're dealing with another entity, except they're a little bit more strict as what their name is. 17:50 Yeah, we're not we learned a lot this week, man. Yeah, just it was quite a bit of back and forth. And we're not used to it because we received private capital for deals. But receiving it from an IRA. Yeah, was just a little bit more challenging. But like you said, I think we got our bearings. Now, it looks like the fun should be headed our way. Now. It was just a little slight learning curve. But it's kind of cool, man. Let me ask you this. So what what are the tax advantages of investing from inside of an IRA versus just investing out of your LLC account? Right, so how does that work? Yeah, so 18:16 really, when it comes to the tax treatments, and the tax advantages of these accounts can experience, it's going to be up to the type of account that you've established. Alright, so here at Qwest, we hold seven different types of accounts, with Traditional and Roth IRAs, which can be your personal accounts, we've got the employer plans, right, these are geared towards self employed individuals want to take advantage of those higher contribution limits. Alright, so this can be the SEP, the simple and the solo 401 K. And then we have our specialty plans, right? These aren't retirement accounts. But these are accounts that can be self directed, just like retirement accounts. And that's going to be the health savings account, HSA, and then the Coverdell ESA, right, which is an alternative to things like the 529 plan. Right? So these are always gonna fall into one of two categories, either a pre tax account, or a post tax account. So for example, let's look at the traditional and the Roth IRA and compare them. So the traditional IRA, most common account in the United States, because of that pre tax status, and are you moving funds over from like a 401k, unless you've specified otherwise, you've been putting pre tax contributions as well as your employer. Alright, so when you move them over, you're not looking for a tax hit. So you just want to land them in a pre tax account, that traditional IRA, when the funds are in there, like I said, Any profit your that is being made, is coming back non taxed is a tax exempt entity, right? It files all the same documents as things like a charity, a nonprofit organization, a church, right, it falls under that same IRS code. So when you're getting the funds back, they're coming back 100% To the IRA, and they're growing tax deferred now How can retirement age as long as you're over the age of 59 and a half, you're taking out all of those funds, not tax free, you're getting applied to your income, and you're paying the taxes as your income, right, they get added to your adjusted gross income for the year in which you took that distribution. Right. The reason people will stick with this is because they know down the road, they're going to have a lower income, right? Either they're gonna get out of retirement, and they're just gonna be living off their savings, or their pension plan or Social Security, whatever it is, either way, they know their income brackets gonna be a little bit lower. Now, let's flip that. Let's look at the Roth IRA, the post tax account. Personally, my favorite account, right? Because the is post tax, any funds you're getting back, just like the traditional IRA are not going to be taxable, except instead of growing tax deferred, they're growing tax free. Right? That means you take let's say, you max out your contributions when you're younger, for five years, you got $30,000, right. So it's like 6000 a year, so over five years 30,000. From there, you grow that 30,000 into 100,500, a million if you're lucky enough, right? That means come retirement age, as long as you've had a Roth IRA open for five years, and you're over 59 and a half, you've got a million dollars tax and penalty free. That's the beauty of a Roth IRA is my personal favorite account. It's got some advantages as well outside of just the tax free growth, like the contributions, right, so because they're post tax contributions, the IRS has already got a slice of the pie. It no longer cares what you do with that money. Right? So in that same example, over five years, I put $30,000 in, except at the end of year five, I decide. Now, I need a new car, I need a new car, and I do not want a car payment, or I want a very minimal car payment. Because that's a post tax account, I can take out those contributions, right, the contributions at $30,000, tax and penalty free. And I get to submit it as I please. Right. So that's really the two key differences. No matter what funds are coming back tax free, it doesn't matter if they're going tax deferred or growing tax free. 22:15 So can you have multiple accounts? Because I know you have you kind of mentioned a little bit earlier that you can use 6000 per account. So when you have a Roth, and it's self directed that you kind of okay, I mean, I got 12,000 away annually and get multiple accounts. And what's the is there a limit on that if you get multiple extra accounts? 22:33 So unfortunately, no, right? So that $6,000 limit is not only going to be combined with all of your Roth's it's all of your personal accounts. So let's say I've got, I can have multiple accounts, right, but let's say I've got a traditional and a Roth at a private custodian like quest, and then a traditional and a Roth at a public custodian, each are gonna play their own different roles, I can contribute 6000 amongst all of them. Right? So it'd be per account, it's gonna be 6000. Amongst all 23:03 this is annually, yeah, yeah, per 23:04 year. Once I get over 50, it bumps up for the personal accounts it you got $1,000 Ketchup, for things like the employer plans, it can be as high as $3,000, ketchup 6500 $6,500. Ketchup, for things like the solo 401 K. So really depends on the type of account. But once you get past 50, all those contributions go up a little bit. 23:28 Got it, man. So why would somebody want to open a Roth? I mean, a self directed over a Roth, why would they do that anyways? Or is there any advantage to opening one over the other? Because I know when he said we'll grow tax free completely. So what's the advantage of the other one of the self directed? 23:41 So keep in mind, that's the term self directed? Like I said, just a marketing term, right? So there's no legal distinction between my self directed Roth here at Qwest and the Roth at fidelity. They're both identical. Right? The only difference is the investments themselves. So I would say that the advantage of when it comes to self directed versus non self directed, is really just about how active you can be. Right? How active you want to be. When I'm talking with a client, I'm having constant consultation with them. And they're considering a self directed IRA, that's always my first question. All right, how active are you looking to be with your investments? Are you looking to just put money away? Have it managed and slowly watch it grow? If so, that's a brokerage IRA. You put that away, you don't think about it. Right? You let the money grow naturally. But if you're someone who's looking, if you've got an like an entrepreneurial mindset, you want to take advantage, you want to be in control of those funds. Now self directed IRA starts looking like you're the best option for you. Right? Because now you're in charge, right? You got some deals, you've got a network that you've built, you want to take advantage of that network, self direct those funds, because you feel like you can beat the returns from the market. Right? A lot of people are coming over this way, especially with the market in the condition that it is right now. This is that alternative path. Right You feel like I can, I can make some profit here, I can kind of, I can kind of mitigate the losses that I've been experiencing your RA or your or I'm sorry, your self directed IRA. That's where we're gonna come into play. 25:14 Okay, so I have kind of a question about this. So if you're only investing 6000 a year, per all your IRAs, how do you grow that money? Fast to make a million dollars that retirement? Like, if you only have if you start out 2015 is 40 years? Yeah. 1000. You have to for extra money across a lifetime, just for you for extra money across 40 years to get that million dollars in? So like, what type of investment can they do to increase their IRA? Because like, one thing like so we were dealing with this paperwork recently, and they couldn't do a loan document, because it was considered usury, and which can be on good returns. So like, is there like, is there are ways around giving out great returns, especially as US investors giving, we're trying to give a great returns to our private capital? Like, is there ways to disperse funds to give weaker returns? Because some? Yeah, 26:12 that's I, that's what that was. I was going to ask, too. So we the amount that we were going to pay back the gentleman for investing. They said we couldn't do it, because it was too much. We couldn't pay him back that much. 26:23 Yeah. So that one, when they were talking about usury rates is specifically for for the notes, right that the usury rates every state's a little bit different. I think in the state of Texas, it's 18%. Right? Honestly, believe or not, that's to protect you guys. If they were these rates, let's say if they were to go to default, that means you're not going to be you would only have to recoup the funds to cover 18%, anything above that you guys wouldn't have to cover now, this is in the case of default. All right. But when it comes to growing the account fast, I don't think it's necessarily the types of investments, it's the structure that you need to take advantage of. Right. And what I mean, is partnering, that's the biggest thing, whenever we're looking at a small dollar IRA, that's the biggest strategy that we tell our clients, right? If you have a small dollar IRA, and you're looking to make these investments, right, more than likely, you know, someone who has a larger IRA, you know, someone who has funds saved up, that they worked for a company for several years, and they rolled over their 401k. Alright, well, let's say they're looking to lend out $100,000. Note, right, but you've only got 10,000. So you got 10,000, you reach out to them like, hey, instead of you lending out 100,000, do you think we can draft up this $100,000 note to show 90% being led by you, and 10% being lent by my IRA? Alright, that way, now I'm getting access to this investment that I otherwise wouldn't have had access to. Because I'm taking advantage of the partnering structure. Right? So I'm gonna get that same return. But my investment opportunities open up immensely, right? Because now I'm not dealing with small dollars, oh, man, I have to do like a bridge low a bridge loan, that's really the only thing I get into, I can't do much more. No, you can, you can purchase property, right, you take a small percentage of that property's ownership, I can lend on a large note, take a small percentage of it, I can partner with someone to get into a syndication right now obviously, depends on the type of syndication, but just shows you that really, it's not the investment itself, it's the structure, it's taken advantage of that partner. 28:40 Okay, I'm really gonna just literally, we realized that too. And I'm like, I don't know if there's something else we could do. But the part of the partner structure is a way to disperse and diversify your small amount of money because like, when it comes to investing money like that, like the larger the capital, the easier it is both small, it's really difficult and almost like, cumbersome to deploy that small amount of capital. 29:01 It really is. And honestly, really is and that's, unfortunately, just kind of one of the hurdles, right? Because no matter what if someone's using their their small dollar IRA, it doesn't really matter if you're going private or public, or the type of investment doesn't matter, your returns are probably going to be limited. Or you could only grow that account so much to obviously you find your unicorn deals and you get a massive return. Good on you. But if those those were readily available for everyone, everyone would do it. Right. So that's really the biggest thing to take advantage of. It's going to be that partnering because keep in mind, when we're talking about funding an IRA, there's really two ways there is moving funds, there's making your contributions. Right, and then there's moving funds over from existing retirement accounts, moving funds over from existing retirement accounts is the way that 90% of people are going to fund their self directed IRA. Right? They've got that old 401k They've got the old 403 B, or they've got that IRA that they've had just sitting in the market. forever, right? Usually, that's how they're going to fund their investments. Now, by all means, it's definitely possible, right? It's only possible to just start from scratch and make your investments by slowly building them. But even when I'm on the phone with clients, I tell you like, hey, it's gonna be a lot of work. Right? There's no way around it, I wish I had the golden ticket to just tell you how, here's how you get that IRA to grow much faster. But at the end of the day, it's going to require some work. Right? And that's just the plain and simple of it, I never want to mislead My clients as to telling them that, hey, you know, you invest into this, let me tell you the secret, right? It's only it's, you're gonna have take advantage of your network, right? The bigger network you've got, the faster you can grow your IRA. 30:45 I have I seen this recently. And I don't know how often you see this as well, when asked this question, but people that like, oh, I have an IRA, I'm investing in it. And then they realized that they didn't direct it at all. They're just throwing money in the account. And they're not directing it at all, how often do you see that? 31:00 More often than you'd think? Right? So when it comes to when it comes to quest, specifically, right, our accounts are non interest bearing. So we actually tell people, hey, only bring over the money you need for this specific investment. So it doesn't have to do much with us. But it happens a lot. When people are moving to the funds over there. Like I put money, I made an investment in my IRA. Right? I mean, IRA investment. The IRA is not an investment. It is a vehicle. Right? You can get into a car, it doesn't matter. It doesn't you're not gonna get anywhere if you're not driving it. Right. It is just the investment vehicle, it is where the investments are going to sit. So it does have to be invested further than that. But yeah, you're you're absolutely right. I have definitely seen that before. And it always just, I always just have to like I'm so sorry about that. Someone should have told you. I'm sorry that you're just now getting in contact with us. 31:52 Yeah, it's, I saw it recently. And I'm like, man, like I've been doing it for 20 years and like, hasn't done anything. 32:00 Yeah. And that's if you were lucky enough to put it into an interest bearing account, or God forbid, you put it into account that had no interest. And I mean, your money just sat there and did nothing. 32:09 So there's actually a, there's actually IRA accounts that their interest bearing means they'll take away from money vested there. 32:16 Yeah. So whenever you're looking at the interest bearing account, really, that's where those brokerage accounts are going to come in, right? This account, we're going to take the excess cash, and we're going to invest it right. Now, every company has a different strategy for doing this quest. We don't offer it because we really just focused on self directed IRAs, but a lot of other custodians will allow you to put the funds there. And they'll tell you like, hey, we'll give you a minimum 2% 1% return it's not very much. But yeah, they are interest bearing. 32:46 That's interesting. Interesting. So I want to talk about like, transferring over funds, if they have a original IRA, there's no, there's no tax event money to transfer fees, like a wire transfer. For people that want to invest in, invest in self directed self directed IRAs. Like if they have a 401k. And all that stuff is really a money or money to transfer, like a wire transfer? Or is it just paperwork? Or is it something about fees involved? 33:16 So really, to depend on the custodian, all right, um, usually for receiving funds. Most custodians won't charge you anything, some do, as unfortunate, they'll charge your wire fee, even for incoming wires. I've never understood that. But usually, all you're looking at is going to be the fee for the method that you send the funds out, right. So if we're transferring out to, to another custodian, we don't have any transfer fee, you just got to cover the wire fee. If you send that as a wire $5 and you send it as a check. That's really it. All right. Now, other custodians. Sometimes, if you're closing out the account, there's like a termination fee. Sometimes there's a wire fee plus a transaction fee. So really, it really just will depend on from custodian to custodian, I always advise when you're looking at custodians, look at the fee structure, right? Some are percentage based, some are fee based, some are transaction based, you've got to find which custodian works for you. 34:11 So this is this is kind of like that deep thieves. So what is quest charged for? As students? I know, I know you guys are, you're the vehicle, but you have maintenance that comes in. So what's your fee schedule for like coasting, that that funds availability? And like do you charge per transaction or stuff like that? Like, where do you go as far as what that looks like? 34:33 So for us, it's pretty straightforward, right? It's $100 to establish the account, once we get to establish we give it its own name, its own address, and like I said, its own social security number and asset protection that's gonna be built within the IRA. From there, these next fees wouldn't be incurred until they actually funded their investment. Right? We don't we don't charge for incoming funds. So those transfers, completely free. The accounts just gotta get them. But when they go to actually make their investment or We have is a 125 asset purchase fee. Right? What that's covering is we're assigning a processor to them that, like I said, it's going to work directly with them for this investment, so we're going to work with them. And any borrower title company syndicator, whoever it is, we're gonna help gather up the documentation, we have two sets of auditing teams, the first ones are working directly with you, once it looks good to them, they send it to our back end quality control team that then audits audits, that those documents fully what we're looking for compliance investing, that's really the meeting, we're not policing it, we're not advising on the investment, or we're just making sure they're not doing anything that could get them in trouble down the road. Right now, if they want to send the funds out as a wire, just a $30 charge, that's what we get charged by the bank, but they can send it as an ACH, ACH is a completely free to them. All of those are just their one time payments to make the investment. The only recurring payment that they're going to be seeing is their annual administrative fee. All right. So it depends on the matter on the value of the account that the maximum that it can be, is going to be $350 per asset per year. Right. So it's just 350 per asset. Nothing more. And that's covering the backend reporting, right? We've got to generate the 1099 to the 5490, eights. You know, we have to keep an updated list, we have to report to the Texas Department of Banking of all asset values. Right. So all those things for 350 a year. I don't think it's a bad deal. 36:28 No, that's amazing, man. Because we know what it takes filings, keeping records, keeping track of all that stuff. That's an a business in of itself. And if you're an entrepreneur, if you're out there, you know, you need to focus on what's in your business. You can't be worried about doing those tasks. Yes, to have a third party company doing that, especially for a couple $100 a year. That's amazing, right? 36:44 Yeah. And that's regardless of $1,000 investment or a million dollar investment. 350. And that's the maximum we could come out lower than that. 36:52 Wow, yeah, that's great, dude. So I know, we've covered a lot of what quest does. And we've talked about different types of accounts. Can we talk about like, your specific type of Avatar? So who are you looking for? Who is an IRA right? For like this? Should everybody open an IRA? Or should some people wait till they're like in the, you know, a certain stage in life? Or in their business? Or, you know, who are you looking for to do business with? And how would they contact you? 37:15 Yeah, so I think everyone should have an IRA, right? Whether quest is the best fit for them is going to depend, but off the bat, everyone should have an IRA. Now, when it comes to an IRA at a custodian like quest, usually I'm looking for a couple things, when I when I'm talking to them, if they're just getting started, and they want to be passive, they do not want, they're not looking for something to make their investments, and they're not looking to pursue anything specific. They just want to start building a retirement account because they know they should, right, which is absolutely correct, they should. But that means we're probably not a good fit with them. Right? One thing that we pride ourselves on is that we are not just churn and burn, right? We're not looking to just open up accounts, and then forget about you, we turn business away, because we know that at the end of the day, they will keep us in mind. And when they get to that stage of their investment or their retirement building. They're going to come back to us where we play the long game we're not we're not looking to just sell products. Alright, now, on top of that, let's say now they are looking to be more active. Awesome. Awesome. Are you looking for something that is real estate guided? Right? So private money lending and real estate syndications? private entities? Right? You can even it can be a little bit outside of real estate startup companies, right? We've seen investments into small companies like that. Are you looking to do like fixing flip single family homes? What types of investments are you looking to make? Right? Like I said, some people's bread and butter is the public market. Awesome. Awesome. But that's not what we do here. We can't give you any publicly traded assets. So if you're looking for the public market, we're going to send them to someone like Fidelity Charles Schwab Vanguard, TD Ameritrade, right, but if they are looking for those real estate style investments, we're here for you. Also, because we know that this is not up are these this is alternative assets. There's a lot, a lot, a lot of education and due diligence. Right? That's the one thing that people forget about how important those due diligence steps are. Right? Buy go purchase. If I go purchase a stock, it's as simple as do I think it's gonna go up? Right, obviously, it's deeper than that. But overall do I think it's gonna go up with or think it's gonna go down? That's what my due diligence really sums up to real estate style investments, man, you were just single family homes, your due diligence is now on the property on the area on the market within that area, right? I'm doing lending my borrower looking now I got to look at both a bar and a property on syndicating. I'm going to do diligence on that syndicator because it may not be secured note that I'm wandering out or it's not necessarily the most bad asset backed investment. Right so that I'm looking for someone who understands that that due diligence is going to be key. Right now we supplement that we can tell you, we don't do the do the due diligence for you. But we have hundreds of videos showing you what you should be looking for. We do interviews with people in the industry that tell you, here's what they look for. All right, but someone who's going to, like I said, be that entrepreneurial mindset, that's going to put the work in because at the end of the day, private assets come with a bit of work. Alright, so that's really who I'm looking for. Seasoned, not necessarily seasoned, but someone who's knowing what they're getting into someone who's got the capital to make it work. And also someone who just simply is looking for alternative assets, right, some people will call into they know, or an IRA custodian. And we're the first one that they found on the internet. And they simply no, don't don't know that we're private assets. 40:47 Yeah. So one thing I like that you guys do is you guys have a quarterly or monthly events all over Texas, one to one a couple weeks ago. So it's kind of cool, Keith still about people about that. 40:59 Oh, nice. Nice. Yeah, I'm glad you got to show up. So every Tuesday, every Saturday at noon, we host a class virtually, right. It's different every single time, right new speakers come out, we record the classes, put them up on our YouTube channel and our Education Center. On the first, second and third Tuesday's of every month, we host in person socials at our Houston Austin and Dallas offices, respectively. Now, what that's geared toward is going to be networking and deal pitching. So how it works is we'll have someone come out first 30 minutes, right? It's just gonna be networking, everyone gets to meet everybody, then they're going to present for an hour. All right, 45 minutes to an hour with some q&a. And then after that, we'll have some more networking in deal pitching. Right? So if you've got a deal, let's see. Or if you just got money, you've got capital, hey, I'm looking to lend out, let the crowd know, right, let everyone know in person. And we also have audiences virtually, right. Also, on the fourth Wednesday of every month, we have our virtual networking, happy hour, we've had people from all across the country. As a matter of fact, the last one I hosted, we had someone from the UK who had joined. That was crazy. I didn't expect that. Now he was he was, uh, he lives in the US. And he was traveling abroad, but he still wanted to attend. That's pretty cool. Just getting someone not being able to say, Hey, we got someone from the UK here. But yeah, we host tons of networking events, right. The reason is, because as your custodian, we can't endorse these investments. We can't tell you, this is good, this is bad, you should go with this person, you shouldn't go with this person. So we take the next best step is just getting everybody together, giving you the opportunity to build that network that you can start making your investments. 42:38 Okay, I didn't realize you guys didn't advise. So I was thinking like, you might say, Hey, man, because we all we do is land, right? So we're looking for big ranches, stuff like that. So I thought maybe their advisor can be like, Hey, man, I wouldn't invest in that apartment. So you guys, you know, scrutinize the investment, you just make sure that everything's structured properly. And all the paperwork is proper. 42:57 Right? Yeah. So and that's when you've gotten to that point, right? But how it works, is when you first joined quest, right, you're gonna get signed an IRA specialist, that's the team that I'm on. Right. So we have a team of Iris specialists that are going to kind of walk you through and educate you as much as as much as we can. And that's the key is we're going to be sure you are fully equipped. I'm not I we cannot tell you, that's a bad investment. What's the next best thing that I can do? So I can be sure you know, everything you need to know, to identify that that's a bad investment. Right? That's what we do. We focus on education. That's why we have so much material that we just push out constantly, we're being sure all of our investor clients are fully equipped to make the best decisions that they can. 43:42 Alright, I like it like the I like the distinction. I just assumed, like, hey, we have your cash, we're not going to give it to you for something. 43:49 But we tell people, we've we've had people enter into, you know, notes that are at 1%, we call and tell them like, hey, you know, this is at 1%. Right? You know, this is just being sure. They say yep. Okay. All right. 44:08 Whenever you find that guy that wants to dump into some 1% notes, send them my way. Okay. 44:15 So I tell them like, sir, I've got it. I've got the perfect opportunity for you. 44:21 And we want to talk to them. Yeah. 44:25 I really appreciate you coming on. This very informational. Like I said, we've been dealing with this recently. Herbert has dealt with us, I hope you've learned something because we're kind of dealing with it firsthand this last week. So it's kind of it's kind of interesting to talk about it right now. 44:41 The first time you're exposed to it, honestly, it's a lot. It's a lot and it seems overwhelming, right? But that's why that's why people like like us are here, right? We set up consultations we'll have a consultation with every single one of my clients before they ever open up the account with us. That way they know the rules, right? Because it's who knows who knows? Oh, IRC 4975 will tell me what I can and can't do. No one knows that, right? That's why we're here to let you know what you can and can't do. The types of investments that are available to you and how the process works, we really break it down and try to simplify it as much as we can. 45:15 So what's the best way to get ahold of you? We got quest quest quest Whoa. First And then we have your email as well as that 45:26 right? So you guys can shoot me over an email Zachary dot Wilson at Quest Or if you want to give us a call 281-492-3434. My name is Zach Wilson. Just ask speak to me or my direct extension is 3648. If I'm not available, guys, any one of the IRA specialists, right? We have a whole team here we have 34, Ira service professional certified Ira service professionals that are able to answer any question you got when it comes to your IRA investments. So again, if I'm not available, just speak to an IRA specialist. And every single one of us will be happy to hop on a call with you then, or set up a consultation for a later time that works best for you. 46:06 There you go. This is a random question, but is there a quote that is yours or somebody else's that you resonate with? 46:13 Oh, man. Oh, it sounds bad. But though you know what, the first one that came into mind was, was I just picture the Wayne Gretzky quote. He was 100% of the shots. You don't take Wayne Gretzky, Michael Scott, Zach Wilson. I'll stick with that one. I'll stick with the Office quote. 46:40 I like it, man. Yeah, we, we do shoot a lot of shots. And we'd rather like, make a mistake, get the data and then move on to the next one. So yeah, I'm 46:49 done. And honestly, data downloads. That's the biggest hurdle. That's why I always tell people it's like, the first step is always the hardest, right? always the hardest. Once you take that step, there's a lesson to be learned gets a little bit easier the next time. Alright, but it's just about doing it. Honestly, just you just have to take that first step, because otherwise you'll never get to where you want to go. 47:11 With that, we will leave you if you enjoy this episode. Go check that out. There's more like it, probably underneath this episode. We appreciate everybody listening in. And thank you, Zack, for coming on. And I hope you all learn something because I did. Y'all have a great day. appreciate y'all appreciate Anthony. 47:27 Yeah, thank you guys for having me. Y'all have a good one. Thanks, man. See you soon.

Zach WilsonProfile Photo

Zach Wilson

IRA Specialist

IRA Specialist at Quest Trust Company. Largest Self-Directed IRA Custodian in Texas with 20k clients across country. We are a retirement custodian that specializes in alternative assets, specifically real estate style investments.

About me, I'm from New Orleans. Went to LSU for Chemical Engineering but transferred to UH to finish up in Finance. Been with Quest for 4+ years. 3+ years with Internal Auditing team reviewing all investments coming through Quest. 1 year as an IRA specialist and speaker for Quest.

Anthony GaonaProfile Photo

Anthony Gaona

Host/ Ceo/ Speaker

Hi! I am Anthony Gaona.
I’ve been in digital marketing for almost 15 years.I grew up in construction working for my dad when I was only 12 years old. Normally we had a ton of work or no work at all so a lot of my free time was spent learning how to generate leads.

It didn’t take very long for me to master online marketing because I became absolutely obsessed with it. For the last 15 years I’ve been generating construction based leads. At first I was running the projects myself. This led to sub-contracting all of the excess projects and eventually wholesaling the leads off to other construction companies.

One day I was preparing to build a single family residence for myself. In mid December, 2018, a simple YouTube search led me to the term wholesaling and the rest is history. The plan was to use my construction background to start flipping houses. By January 1st of 2019 I launched several marketing campaigns both on and offline for real estate seller leads.

Within about 4-5 weeks I had my first real estate contract locked up. It didn’t take long for me get a land lead where I made almost a full year’s pay on a single transaction. This came from a land lead and that forever changed my life.

I ran low volume larger land deals for the first two years of my real estate career. Like anyone who has been in real estate investing for an extended period of time, I started thinking about scaling my business.

Instead of deciding to vertically integrated and start hiring I imagined a model where I would teach my real estate investing methods to others. This would free up my personal bandwidth and allow for unlimited large scale transactions.

Currently our operations are expanding globally. The goal is to identify one person per major US Market that we can build a team around and drive traffic to so we can close high volume transactions together.

You can learn more about our vision and join our free mastermind by joining hivemind CRM on Facebook and all social channels

Daniel Esteban MartinezProfile Photo

Daniel Esteban Martinez

Host/ Ceo/ Speaker

I have been an entrepreneur since 2018. I come from a regular home just like most people. My dad worked on the roads in the Chicago area for over 30 years. He always taught me to work with my brain, instead of my body. Your body can only take so much abuse. I learned so much from my father. He always pushed me to work smarter and not harder.

I have owned and operated a trucking business for 2 years. I started learning real estate in 2019. Fell into the Data & Skiptracing business in 2020. My partner Anthony & I started Hivemind in 2021.

I have done a ton of different jobs coming up from painting, to door-to-door sales, telemarketing, truck driving, and loading trailers. What I learned most is that I want to stay in the digital business space. The leverage you can have delivering digital products to the marketplace can yield limitless possibilites.

I started The List Guys in 2020. It is a data and skiptracing service. We provide seller and buyers list nationwide. My clients have been getting great results and I am proud to help people killing it.

I started the Hive in 2021 with my partner Anthony Gaona. It is a real estate and business mastermind. It also comes with a all in one CRM, that can host unlimited websites and users.

Starting the Hivemind has been an amazing journey so far. Seeing one of our users make his 6 figure month in June 2021 leveraging our software, I know there will be plenty more to come!