0:04 Hey, welcome today we have a special interesting topic today we have our course our one and only DeAndre Anderson, come teach us about land trust. We have we always have a lot of questions about this immediately and he was one of our weaknesses. So Anthony Hit him Hit up the androids. Like we're gonna have a conversation about this. So we can learn more than hopefully our audience. Audiences can learn more about this as well. But it's one of those things where like, we just don't know everything and we're always here learning being students of the game. So DeAndre Anderson and of course, I have Anthony here as well. It will be on camera, but we're gonna have any conversation no matter what. Yeah, man, I'll tell you what we're at. 0:45 I wanted DeAndre to hop on here. Because it's like, if you're just doing a couple of deals a year, no big deal. People doing them in their own name, and LLC, that kind of stuff. But when you start to get a little bit more advanced, you're doing a higher volume of deals, bigger deals, you got to start thinking a lot about defense, right? Because everything that you're doing is out in the open. It's public record. So we wanted to talk a little bit about how to kind of do business a little bit more in stealth mode as you advance and then no one nobody better that can think of the talks about this one then Deandre. So man, 1:13 hey, what's going on? Guys? I appreciate it, man. Um, so yeah, so Land Trust, man. That's exactly what you said. So Land Trust basically gives you privacy gives you anonymity. It gives you kind of like that comfort of no one knows who they're really doing business with, as far as like your personal name or public records, even your business right because someone searches your business. And then they're gonna see all Anthony owns that business. But if you have a business and then if your land trust owns that business, then it's like the land trust owns the company. So basically, you're kind of like a go snowmobile, but I'm not gonna say come after you, because anyone come after you, but they won't be able to just see your name right there. You know, you own you own. Especially if you own land, houses, car, stuff like that, like your your, if your name is on anything, personally, you're gonna get exposed. So Land Trust is basically a way to just take title to property. So it's basically just a sheet of paper, it's not recorded, you don't even have to record it. So in these documents are illegal in all land trusts legal in all 50 states. 2:21 Okay, so, so the gallery is gives you anonymity. This is where you have like a trustee, sign your documents, your, your, your, your closing documents for you on your behalf. And you can reassign them as needed based off of whoever it is. 2:37 Yeah, so you're so how it works is, so you're gonna have a US really, there's three moving parts to a trust, you have the grantor, you have the trustee. So and then you have the beneficiary. But when it comes to a land trust, the grantor and the beneficiary are basically the same person. So the grantor is the person that creates the trust, the beneficiary is the one that benefits is the one that owns the trust, and then the trustee is nothing but the signing person for it. Okay, so your trustee signs, all your closing documents, the trustee is the one that goes on title, the trustee has a lot of power, because they have your signing power. Now, they don't benefit. Like they don't, they don't, they're not entitled to any money. They're not entitled to any interest, dividends, things like that. They're only entitled to what you agree to pay them. So I can say, Hey, Daniel, I want you to be my trustee, I'm paying you 50 bucks a month, right? Your trustee, I want you to think of a trustee is kind of just like an employee for you. And you just kind of direct them to do what you need them to do. So you can keep your face and everything clean. And then you have complete control so you can fire them. You can reassign them, you could do whatever you want with them without their consent, because you own the trust. And you basically are the beneficiary, you're going to have your LLC or your name as beneficiary on this trust on this land trust. All right, and this document, this land trust document is between you and your trustee only. Okay, no one else sees it actually on the land trust agreement. There's actually a statement in there that says the trustee hereby, you know, does not promises to not reveal who the beneficiaries are. So as long as you have this Land Trust, no one knows who the beneficiary is the only way someone can find out who is benefiting from the land trust, right is if someone gets a court order, they gotta get a court order. They got to find the trustee. The trustee has to come to the courts, and then the trustee is going to say the beneficiary is Anthony or Dale. So the whole purpose of a land trust. You kind of want people thinking twice about should I come back to this person? Is it worth it? Right? Attorney fees and stuff like that, so it discourages people from lawsuit lawsuits pursuing anything further. because, you know what if they do try to come after, you know, Land Trust, right, and they find the beneficiary and then it turns out, you don't own anything, you don't have anything in your name you have, you don't have nothing, right. So they waste a lot of money paying these attorneys for nothing. Versus if your name was on public record, our man Anthony and his business owned, you know, $50 million worth of real estate, we're coming after that guy, you know. So Land Trust can put you in a position where it's like, I don't think it's worth coming out to these people may not be worth my time. So. So when it comes to that point, where because you know, it's not if but when you get sued in any type of business or industry, you just want to make it like, hunt, you want to make it hard for someone to be like, Alright, I'm coming that this person that you want that have been thinking about how much money they gotta spend, how much attorneys they have to hire, you want them thinking about how long the process is, and the land trust can basically do all that for you if you have a structure property. 5:56 Okay, man, yeah, that was a ton of information, bro. So I felt like I kind of grasped it. And in, that's me that I've been doing land for a long time. So how about let's, let's, let's unpack some of this stuff right now. And it's kind of go one by one. I know if somebody wants to take a deep dive into this with you, they need to check out the land flipping empire. So you can get coaching directly from the Andre and the JV deals with him. But I want to say like, Okay, I'm a brand new guy, I just came on board, and I got this really hot deal. And I just kind of want to be private. And I've done deals like this in the past where you don't want people to know who was involved on the other side of the transaction for various reasons. So I come to you and I say, Hey, man, I have this deal that I want to put together. I just don't want to be on title. And actually, I do have one right now that I'm working on that I kind of don't want to be on title, or my LLC. So where do I start? Like, as far as the documents go? Should I go to an attorney to get these drafted up? Like what's kind of the the standard? First point and then when you select the beneficiary, where do we find these people? I mean, when you are the beneficiary, when you find a trustee, where do you find them? It's like an attorney, but can you? Can you kind of just go piece by piece. 6:57 Gotcha. So if you were if you're a new guy, and say you want to put a deal together, and you want to use a land trust. So obviously, the first thing you need is the land trust documents, right? Okay. So number one, you can get the documents from an attorney, okay, they're going to charge you a whole lot of money for it. And they're going to be offering other services, which that's fine. That's what they do. Or you could buy the documents from me because I sell them. And I've used the land trust in Florida, Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, different states, I can't say I use them in all 50. But I use them in the field, and it's roughly everywhere is the same. All right. So you can even find them free online, in other places, but you know, you got to vet them, you got to know what you're looking at things of that nature. So the one that I have, I've looked through it, I reviewed it, I got it from an attorney, I walk step by step with an attorney. So I highly advise using the one that I have available. So the first thing you need to land trust documents, because you need to know what's going on. All right. Number two, right, like you said, you need a trustee. All right, so your trustee can be anybody, right? It can be me, it could be your, your, your close friend, it could be your uncle, right. Or it could be a actual company, you can have a company as your trustee, and then you could pay them monthly fees or yearly fees, or you can pay them per signature that they saw per signature. So you can have an agreement with a company and say, hey, I want you to be my trustee, I'll pay you 10 bucks per signature that you sign. Right. So you can have different agreements. So attorneys company, you can have a, there's other you can either use another trust as your truck is funny, because you can go deep, you can have another trust as the trustee, right? So it's really you know, so that's number one, find someone you trust. But we do recommend not picking anyone that's to like with the same last name as you or someone as close to you because to you because if you if you use someone that close or same last name, it kind of almost defeats the purpose. Like my last name is Gonzalez and then someone else on there's Gonzalez. Not and then they look at that person's name, oh, man, you're married to this person, right? So it's easier. So you want to use a company or someone who, like you want to use your trustee and this is a cool thing, right? Your trustee can be in another state, your trustee can be in another country, you can have a trustee in Jamaica sign in for you for your documents in the United States. Okay, 9:28 let me ask you this. You said it needs to be somebody that you trust. So what are some of the drawbacks like can this person like sign for you and do some shady stuff? Or you know, what, how does that apply? 9:38 So that person can do so that person can do so by the way, when you have a doctor you're going to have you're going to have the land trust document with this person based on what they can and what they cannot do. If they break any of those rules. You can fire them or remove them immediately without their consent. And it says it in the land trust document. The beneficiary has the right to remove said trustee without the trustees consent. Alright, so if if someone, let's say they're doing good business in the beginning, and then they start the you feel like they're starting to do shady stuff they're not they start getting untrustworthy, that you can immediately remove them by getting a document notarized without their consent. And then, and then you can give it to whoever you could record it, and then they're no longer your trustee. So as quick as you hire them, you can fire them just as quickly. And then I want to continue so. So you need so you need to trust documents, you need to trust the and then you also got the third part, which is you the beneficiary. So now, when let's just say you're looking at a piece of land you want to close on, right, so now when you send the contract to the seller, right, you're not going to be putting your name your company on that. On that contract, you're going to be putting the ABC Land Trust, right ABC Land Trust is the purchase is the person that's purchasing that property, and then wasn't who's going to be signing that contract is your trustee, the trustee, which is the company, the attorney, which is someone you trust, they're signing it, and now the seller signs the trustee sign. So now you have a executed agreement. You can wholesale that contract, you can buy it taking the title of a trust, you can do a lease option, you could do whatever you want. But you have the benefit of knowing knowing exactly who you are, you have ABC Land Trust, and then you have your trustee that's on the signature. So Anthony's name or DeAndre, his name is nowhere My company is nowhere, it won't trace back to me at all. All right. 11:39 So they're doing they're doing all the documents. One of the things I really like about this is that you can fire them without notice, that gives you a lot of flexibility that you can control the situation. And like one thing you don't you don't follow these documents anywhere like that document that you notarize things are fired. That's all your own paperwork, the method show to title once you're transferring it again or signing a new trustee, right? 12:01 Yep. Yeah, that's correct. And then what kind of what Anthony said some of the drawbacks to the trustee, right. So even though they don't, they don't, they don't benefit. And they they're not entitled to any benefits, right, since they have the signing power, they can, let's say you bought a property, right? They can refinance your property, right, they can refinance it, they can go and collect rents, because they sign the leases, they can get your assignment fees, if you if you if they signed for, and then they can put the check in the name of the trustee. So you really got to have somebody you trust, because if they do those things, you can fire them, and then you will have to, you know, reverse all those things. But those are some of the drawbacks. They have the signing power behalf on behalf of your company. So it has to be a reputable company, a reputable person, and things of that nature. So those are some of the drawbacks, because it will because you so a land trust is great land trust a great companies agree and things of that nature. But there's always going to be pros and cons to everything, in my opinion with the Land Trust, the pros outweigh the cons. Because you're in direct control. It's not like you're giving control to someone and then you're falling asleep, right? You give this person you're signing, right and then something's going on, you could fire them, and you set rules, and the trustee does this, they're going to be immediately terminated, etc. So you make those you or your family makes the decision, whoever is the beneficiaries. So, um, another thing, you can use land trusts or partnerships. So let's just say me and Anthony are going to be Jvn on a deal, right? Anthony's 50% beneficiary and the other 50% beneficiary, we use Daniels company as our trustee, and then voila, so any proceeds any rent any cash out refinance is going to be split between both of the beneficiaries. So you can have multiple bid, you can have 510, you can have multiple beneficiaries, but all of the percentages must come up to 100%. Must equal 100%. Gotcha. 14:07 Dude, yeah, this is Magic Man. This, it opens up a lot of doors. Like I said, we're starting to do a lot of cooler deals. I'll tell you. Just a quick, funny story. We didn't want to be aware of the property, the guy that was occupying the property, tried to kill the seller. Wow. Yeah, so we bought the property in a trust. So we could flip it because we didn't want anything to do with those people. So I can see a lot of benefits to using this. So how's it set up? Is it like one trust per piece of property like kind of like you would do with an LLC or can one trust handle multiple properties? 14:42 So you can have a trust, you can have a trust per property or you can have the you can have the same trust and then you can have your LLC had beneficiary but it's really it really the point it really is so that when you start getting into that, that's kind of like the question of do I create an LLC per property or do I create one LLC and put multi prop multiple properties in it. So it's really up to you or your asset protection attorney and your risk tolerance. So obviously, if you have one trust, multiple properties, right? That somebody exposes the trust, they can get access to the equity in those properties, right. Same thing with LLC, if you have one LLC that owns multiple properties, you have somebody breaches the corporate veil, and they get to get access to those to all the equity in those properties. So it's that's that question is kind of the same, with LLC isn't the trust, so you just got to determine what's the best setup for you. The best recommendation is one trust per property, of course, to limit the liability, but then again, you know, it comes to extra costs and things of that nature. All right. But of the so the benefit, though, of a trust over LLC, so LLC cost you money every year, right, you got filing fees, business, licensing fees, whatever, with a land trust, you don't really have those fees, it's just it's just a document, right? So you don't have to pay any extra for don't think you got to pay as if you're paying your trustee or you got to pay for the whatever the beneficiary is, it was a company you paying the dues on that, but a land trust can be cost effective in that way. So you really have to set it up with the asset protection attorney like, Alright, we're gonna have this just mainly trust, we're gonna have five properties per trust or three properties for trust. So you're really just it's really based on how many properties you have, how much volume you're doing network thing, family situation, where do you have kids? It goes real deep. Were you talking about trust? 16:38 Yeah. I think it's, I think it's a good conversation. And like, what's the is there a cost to set this up. And I know, 16:47 there's no cost, there's no cost, the only the only cost is the land trust document that you'll pay for if you bought them. Or like I say, you can find them free online, which I don't really recommend, because you want someone you want to get it for someone reputable, but really a land trust can cost you zero, probably 10 bucks, because you got to get the document notarized. And I go to a you know, you can go to the UPS store, and they charge you 10 bucks for a notary stamp. But if you know a notary, they'll do it for free, or you go to the bank, you get another route of free. So in essence, Land Trust will cost you $0.00 cent. 17:22 And you get a lot, you get a lot of benefits that too. So it shows that the cost can be free, cheap. And is the basics of like, this paperwork isn't like super complicated. Whereas like a contract, the letters and all the basics are just like, once you understand, like the process of what it is. And I know like, if you're doing different states, you have to like plug in the different addendum for that state. Is it like once you understand the basics, it's becomes easy process. 17:47 Yeah, so the documents very general. And I think it's just on the on each document, you just got to change the governing state, which that's so it's not really amendment, the amendment is like, so I use it, I use Elantra document, I think it's like roughly 10 to 12 pages. Um, and at the end, I'm like one of the third last pages, you have the governance state, and you just change that state, and then voila, that's it. Um, you know, you can use it for whatever state that you're going to be in. So that's basically how that works. 18:15 Gotcha. Gotcha. I think it's, I think it's such a cool tool. Like, how many of how many, how many land trusts have you done? 18:22 Yeah, probably yo, I've done so many I have so many I have a you can name it anything you want. I have the Marlboro circle, land trust. And then even though it and the thing is you need to have to include the land trust in the name. You know, you can just kind of create a name and then and it can be anything you want. Some people they go so deep, where they try to, they try to name the trust, kind of like a scary name. So people wouldn't go after the like It's nuts. But I probably set up over 1010 different land trusts, done deals and all of them assignment fees tied to the properties flipped them. Multiple Land Trust multiple different trustees in multiple different situations. Like I have, like I have a buddy he was he had the same question about land trust. And he asked me can this work in Tennessee? I said, of course it can. So you know, he did. I did a consultation with him. I gave him the documents. You know, I explained everything I'm explaining here. I explained to him. And now he owns a piece of land in Tennessee and the land trust. He's not on public record. His trustee owns it and they move the trust. And now he's all the way in Florida, his trustees in Tennessee. The property is in Tennessee, so it was like no one knows that he's the one benefiting he's all the way in Florida. So that's kind of the power of it. 19:43 Yeah. Do you know what the Disney story with land trust? 19:46 You said a Disney story. Yeah, no, no. 19:51 So quick little side story about Land Trust. This is where I first learned about it. Is that Disney back in like 70s or 80s in Florida. They wanted to expand In Disney, the Disney World Disneyland. So they started acquiring properties all around the perimeter. And they use a land trust to do it. So showed anonymity. Because once somebody found out that Disney was buying property to expand, all the prices would have shot up for all the properties they wanted to buy. So use the land trust to acquire all the properties that once they all did all the total houses down and expanded their property. 20:23 Yeah, that's, that's really smart. Because you got to think about it from a seller perspective, right? If I'm all if I own a property in I kind of have a nice, small idea that this park is coming maybe or maybe not. And then I get a, I get an offer from this Land Trust, right? And you could think is right, let's just say that Disney is the beneficiary, right? They are making these offers, and they're writing these contracts under let's just say ABC Land Trust one ABC land trust 234-567-8910. Right. And they own the only thing they see is the land trust, they see the trustees, but they don't actually see that Disney is the one behind it. So it's really smart about what they did. Because like you said, if they found out that Disney was actually doing that, then they would have been like, Whoa, I want more money, I want to I want I don't want just a half a million, I want a million dollars, you know, I'm saying so you buy it in the land trust you make yourself discreet, that way you don't cause prices to go up competition. So you can use it for that you can use it for different things. That's actually a really good strategy. Um, and then I know some people they use land trust for like lease options, right? They use it for they use it for lease options, because you know, when you do a lease option, you're the sandwich lease options where you're kind of in the middle, right? And they're like, Okay, who's the person benefiting from this? Well, the person has been the fitting is the land trust, not a company, not a person but the land trust? 21:43 Yeah, I think I think it's a it's definitely a cool thing. I think what to utilize the more Alex, I haven't done it yet. That's funny, because I went to a when I first started real estate, when some meetup and a guy came into teach about land trust, and he was selling his, his his old school, you're selling those Land Trust documents and all that stuff for like, $300. So I ended up buying it. But I was there. But I still I still never used it. Even to this day, I have all the stuff. It was just one of those things where like, I never, I never actually went to uni bicep you never use. 22:20 You have to use it just makes you use it strategically. It's a good too. And then there's a so you had that site of acquiring properties to trust, buying post selling refinancing and things of that nature. And then you got the other side of trust, where it's like, Alright, I'm trying to go after a trust. And it's really hard to find the person who owns the property. You know, I'm saying so that's, that's like a whole nother side, getting in contact with the trustees and their families and the estate owners. And that's a whole nother side. Yeah. 22:56 You have any questions? If they I think we've covered? I think we've covered everything, man, I think we answered all our questions pretty thoroughly. Yeah. 23:02 I don't know if the Andre wants to give us a secret sauce. But a question I have personally, we can talk about this off here. But I wanted to know how to how do we skip trace? He's right. So we have all this anonymity in place. And the under says he loves going after trust properties. And I wouldn't even know where to start like to find these people that somebody does have a trust. How do you go after him to find out and see if, Hey, you want to sell your property? 23:25 Well, it's not really secret sauce. And I kind of I'm not gonna say I figured out on accident, but it was on purpose, no accident, but I had to kind of look deeper into all this doing. So I was using a company called skip matrix, okay. And I know, I know the guy. He's in our he's in the eight figure wholesale land discord chat. So when the guy said, Give me a shot, you know, when I first used them, I thought the data was pretty good. But when I was looking at the Excel sheets, right, and all the data that he was giving, I wasn't really so sometimes when you get certain lists, you kind of just stop at a certain point. Like for example, I'll skip tracing lists, we see phone, one phone, two phone 344 Sometimes it goes up to 10. And then we stop there. What I noticed about this guy skip tracing is that it went up to all the way to phone fibres five, seven, right, like phone, not like cell phone numbers, landlines and cells. And then after that, there was relatives, you got relative one relative to relative three relatives went all the way up to 10 or whatever. And then after the relatives all okay, this can't be the end, right? So you keep going. And then you have associates. So you have associates, relatives, so it goes from, they go, so it goes from the person you're trying to get in contact with which it could be any one of those five numbers. And then it goes to relatives, which is the family members, and then it goes into alright, we can't find the family members. Well, here's some people that are associates right possible Associates, and that can go up to 20 people and then neighbors right So it's literally it's like a layer. It's like a kinky contact with the person Great. That's trying to find their relative can't find the road to to try to find an associate, right? Can't find the associate, let's go out let's we have the information of the neighbors. So and that's why I was always wondering like, when I was going out to these Land Trust, revocable trust, any kind of trust. All right, I was the first person to get in contact with these people. And I'm just like, wow, like, I was like, I was like the first one to make them an offer the first one to do it. And I almost felt unreal. Like it made me an offer, I make them an offer. And then we you know, we negotiate a little bit, and then I'll end up making like, 20 30,000 on the deal. And then when I look back, and I'm like, yo, you're the only person that ever contacted me. And then I kind of noticed that all the documents, and we'll all do them all, like they were all in the trust. Right. So this is what I kind of figured. And when I look back and did the data, I found out that my biggest spreads came from people who own properties and land trust or in trust. So I think it's a good it's a unique market to go after. If you properly know how to go after them. You got to ask the right questions sometimes, because you're going to say if you're if you're if you're texting, if you're texting, or you call it an associate or a relative, you can't be like, Hey, do you own this property on 123 Main Street? You guys said no, I'm looking for this product. I'm looking for the owner of 123 Main Street. I live here. Oh, yeah, yeah, that's my cousin. Like I've gotten in contact with cousins, uncles, relatives are 80 years old. Like, I think one I had, I got in contact with a family member that was in the states and their parents lived all the way in Brazil, and they would have beneficiaries. So that type of data that skid matrix kind of gives on the Excel sheet, you got to just look beyond the mobile lines and the landlines, you got to look to relatives look to associates look to the neighbors. So it's a it goes deep with the skip tracing. It's really, it's really only a skip tracing provider. But regardless of the fact you could skip trace a land trust through the Mellon address, like most skip trace providers do, but some don't give you all the way to possible associated neighbors. They just stop at the person sometimes. 27:14 Hmm. That's a good tip. Good tip, for sure. 27:20 Lots and lots and lots and lots of gems right there, man. I think this was a really, really good episode. And I think people might not see how valuable it is. And so they've been playing the game for a little while. Right? Like our good friend, John Alexander has mentioned in the past is like, maybe you don't want to do everything. So publicly. Like I said, now we're starting to do some some really, really cool deals. I'm on my way to Dallas to try to lock one up for 4.8 million. Like I kind of just want to start putting some of this stuff, you know, start taking things away just so it doesn't look so weird. 27:49 Oh, no, he's Jonathan. He's another he. I think he teaches the I think it's the revocable trust or something like that. So he, so he has his niche with a revocable trust. I have my knees would land trust. There are two different things, but they basically do the same thing. You know? Yeah. 28:07 How do you know the difference? See? 28:11 Yeah, we got a lot to learn in that area, man, honestly. Yeah. I feel like me and Danny got a lot of game. But yeah, talking to people like you people that are out there doing it. They're in the trenches. We're always learning. We're always students in the game, so I know you are too. So yeah, man, this this episode was freaking badass. 28:27 Yep. Thank you, man. Thank you. I guess that I hope people learn learn some some took some notes on that one. Merely me the link of where people can get the documents, right. Yeah, I can give that to you. Alright. 28:39 If you guys want to get with Dre, Dre is doing a lot of numbers. His students are starting to do numbers. So yeah, man, you guys definitely connect with him. He's one of the one of Hive minds finest. He's one of our biggest affiliates, and he's absolutely crushing it super good guy to know, putting up some serious numbers. He said he's he's a practitioner. He's not just a guru or a coach is actually in the game doing it. 28:59 You go. I appreciate you coming on. Please like, subscribe, leave us a review, like so go check us out. We appreciate you listening. And we'll see you on the next one. Thanks, guys.