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Nov. 10, 2022

Ep 263: Helping Students Creatively With kashmoneymike

Ep 263: Helping Students Creatively With kashmoneymike


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0:33 Hey, what's up guys? Anthony with the hive mind, I have a super cool show for you today I'm gonna teach you how to not get destroyed in real estate in the next couple years. You're not going to want to miss this program because you had watch it from beginning to end. We have very special guests here from the last several podcasts we've done, they said that they're working with and getting mentored by this next gentleman, so you're not going to want to miss this one. Everybody give a warm welcome please, Mr. Cash Money, Mike. You're famous, bro. 0:59 What's going on? Man? How are you? Thanks for having me on. 1:02 Hey, yeah, thanks for hanging out with us, man. When I met you that night at the dinner. I was like, man, we got to talk to this guy. And then like, you know, you meet somebody that you kind of put in the backburner, and then you never come back around to it. So I followed you on Instagram. And I'm like, yeah, we'll come back. And then like I said, last couple of interviews, everybody says that you're their mentor now. So I'm like, Okay, let's get this guy on. Let's see what the heck's going on? 1:20 I appreciate it, man. I appreciate it. Yeah, it was good. It was good chopping it up with you. I wish we had some more time to break some bread together. But we're waiting on those steaks, you know. 1:30 We're famished? Yeah, man. Oh, dude. Yeah. So I keep telling everybody this and I've heard everybody kind of in the industry say it now is that if you're in real estate, if you're wholesaling, then you need to start talking and learning about seller finance. And apparently You're the man in this area. So I can't wait to get into the the meat and potatoes of this. So let's see where the conversation goes, man. Well, so you can can you kind of tell us about what you're doing right now and what your business model looks like and that kind of stuff. 1:58 Yeah, sure. So my real name is Mike Tomini. I didn't give myself the name cash money, Mike. I've got a I've got a kid who plays softball, and I was coaching a coach and a game one time and after the game, we're kind of all in the huddle and she goes Hey, Dad, I want to go eat. I reached my hand into my pocket and I pulled out a little knot I peeled off 100 bucks. I go, here you go honey. And the pitcher goes Cash Money Mike with a K and I go, Oh my God, it's gonna stick. So I haven't given myself that name. Yeah, but my name is miter meanie. I, I've been in the business for about 20 years. I'm not an old dog. I mean, I'm not a I'm not a new, not a new investor. And I'm a creative real estate seller finance educator inside the space. I'm a buy and hold investor. I don't sell property, hold property. And then I'll either trade it up if I'm gonna get into a larger deal. But yeah, that's kind of just me in a nutshell. I'm originally from New York. 2:56 Awesome, man. So how did you get into the coaching space? Like did you so you I guess you started doing real estate investing on your own and then people started hitting you up saying, Hey, man, I need to find out what you're doing. So can you kind of just give us like a quick backstory? 3:07 Yeah, quick backstory is I've done I've, I've, I'm kind of like a serial entrepreneur. I've made a bunch of mistakes. I've had everything from restaurants to bars to construction businesses, and all this stuff always kind of had a passion for real estate. I got into it. I want to say right at maybe 2000. Right at like 2000, maybe two 2003, something like that. I was still in the bar business, believe it or not. And I wound up closing down this bar. I was very, very, very uneducated. When it came to money. I want to close down this bar, taking like my last six or $7,000 flying out to Sacramento to study with a woman by the name of Alexis Macnee. And she was teaching subject to a little did I, you know, know that even subject to was something you know, that could technically be done. I went out there, I learned the strategy, came back to New York and didn't really retain as much as I thought I would just started investing a little bit. I started flipping some houses with my brother. I got a real estate license in New York realized that that wasn't for me and then just kept buying property and selling property and buying lots and selling lots and making some mistakes along the way. I've been coaching. So I've been coaching for a long time. I just haven't really come out from behind the curtains here. It was really, just recently that I was at an event out in Scottsdale. I don't know if you've all been out to limitless Expo Ken McElroy and George Gammon. I was out there. And I was watching Fache win, believe it or not, and he got up on stage. And he was telling his story and I'm like, You know what I'm going to do, I'm going to I'm going to come out from behind the shadows here and start telling people a little bit about what I do. I wound up getting taken Eric Klein's sales class, I take a lot of masterminds, and a lot of classes on my own. And as I'm watching Eric, I'm going Holy shit. This guy is moving so much money in assignment fees. And he knows nothing about real estate. I got a call him. And he'll tell you the same thing, right? He's like, Yo, I'm sales and marketing. And he does know a little bit about real estate actually a lot about real estate. But when I was watching him, I kind of immediately sensed that he was leaving a lot of money on the table. Because if the deals really don't work for cash, what other strategies are you going to deploy? Shoot him a text. And I'm like, yo, I'm coming in to Raleigh to teach you creative finance. I rolled into Raleigh, I brought media with me. And from there, I just started to kind of grow my Instagram presence. That's the only real platform that I'm on. 5:55 I haven't seen you a whole lot. 5:57 Yeah, yeah. So I just started coaching, I started running like a five week program. I go twice a week, two hours a day. I usually run over by about an hour. And it's not only is it the acquisition strategy, it's the money game. Right. And so understanding not only the acquisition strategy, but kind of coupling it with the money game, and it's been fantastic teaching a lot of people from across the country, it's been great. 6:24 And same brother, man. Yeah, I'm excited. So I guess, can we kind of get into it right now. Because there's a lot of new people that watch this show. I had somebody actually today that goes to CrossFit where I go, and he was like, man, he goes, I've been watching some of your podcasts, your interviews, he's like, but I don't understand anything you guys are saying. So can we break it down for the new kids? Can you let us know? What is seller finance? And what's this money game we're talking about? 6:46 Yeah. So I think I think usually what happens inside the space is that people get attached to a strategy. And for most new investors, they don't really know what they want out of their real estate investing. I think it should shiny object syndrome with not only not only that strategy, but like it's like, oh, how do I get this money as quickly as I can? Right. So I think number one for the new people is to definitely have a clear goal and vision with what you want to have happen inside your real estate journey. And then try to make that happen, find the best people and find the best strategy now for a buy and hold investor, which I think most of the people aspire to be, but they don't really know it yet. It's all right. What am I looking for from my investments? And then how do I get there, right? So I think having a clear goal, finding a strategy and then kind of deploying that strategy and going after it is going to be the way to go. And for most people that I talked to, it's like, yeah, I want to wholesale and start stacking cash. And then I want to own these buildings, or I want to own some single families. And I want to get into rentals. So for the new people that are on here that that that are just getting started, I think the best place to start is to know what you want from your investments. And for me personally, the four things that I want for my investments are going to be cashflow. It's going to be leverage, some tax advantages, and then appreciation. So if you can kind of focus on those four things, and then figure out how how, how to get to those four things. It's usually by owning real estate, renting real estate, managing real estate, and then refinancing real estate. 8:25 That's a lot of moving parts. Because even myself right now, I'm like, I need to start taking some notes of this, but I guess I'll just have to go back and listen to it over again. So if you're going after, let's say, for starters, right? You're a new guy, you have very little to no capital, you're just getting into the game, you want I guess you want to see, and this is what I did. Instinctively, when I first started real estate, I immediately started asking the sellers like hey, what can you give me some time to pay this thing? Right? So is that what you mean by seller? Financing? 8:54 Yeah, so I've kind of coined that that. That kind of question, right? Where like, people come in, and they're like, you know, what can I be asking the seller to try to structure a seller finance deal? And there's one question that can change the whole trajectory of anybody's business, whether they're brand new in the business or their season, then it's Hey, Mr. Seller, if I give you what you want, or I give you more than what you want, how much time would you give me to pay it off? And ultimately, what you're doing here is with that question, you're ultimately starting to structure the note that you'll wind up using, you know, kind of, you know, in the future as you kind of move down the conversation. So, the thing about seller finance is that, let's talk about the types of deals right we've got five types of deals, we got a wholesale deal, we've got a Novation deal. We've got a subject to deal, a seller finance deal and a hybrid deal. And I think again, knowing which deals do what is going to help newer investors also. So wholesale deals and Novation deals are what refer to as inventory deals. In other words, you're running through inventory, it's great to stack some cash, right? If you're a little, a little limited on funds, and you want to try to get some capital up. Wholesale innovations are a great way to start stacking capital. But you you can't earn yourself to wealth and you definitely can't wholesale yourself to wealth, right? In order to really create true wealth. You've got to hold property inside this country. So sub two seller finance and hybrid deals are going to be the strategies that are real wealth building strategies, if that helps. 10:39 Yeah, super, super helpful, man. It's cool talking to somebody like yourself, who's on your level, because you have all these good tips and nuggets. And I think they're so powerful that a new person is going to absolutely miss them. So I just want to just back you up 10 seconds real quick that the way that you the way that you phrase that question is like, if I can pay you more than you're asking, how much time can you give me to pay. And that's powerful, because everybody that's in the wholesaling world or in the wholesaling space, you're hitting these sellers with like this stupid lowball offer, that doesn't make sense to anybody. And a lot of times, they just batted away, they shut down the hang up on you, they don't want to talk to you anymore. So if you frame yourself that way, and you say, hey, if I can pay you more than that, how much time can have to pay? That's powerful dude. Because it's like in their head, their gears start spinning, like why would you pay me more? Everybody's offering less? Like, what the heck are you talking about? 11:26 So that's a great, that's a great segue into money, right? And what really moves people? And if you think about it, at the end of the day, there's a reason why we all do this, right? Everybody's got their own end game, right? For me, it's it's a little bit older. Now I've got some kids, right. And I've got, you know, I've got my family, I've got my health, and then I've got money, right? Well, actually health first, and then family and then money. But money is a big motivator inside this country, not only in the real estate space, but just in people's everyday lives. More importantly, money is the biggest motivator inside real estate. So on a wholesale level, if you're trying to buy people, people's properties at a discount, and you wind up, coming up to a roadblock there, because it's about money, the question becomes, well, how do you overcome the objection? You overcome the objection, in my opinion, by creating motivation. And you create motivation by offering more money. So understanding the strategy and understanding how to create motivated sellers, will change the game, not only for the newbies, but for the seasoned investors knowing that people are attached to how much money they want to make, or how much money they want to save in this country. And when you take people's assets, right, or what they believe to be their biggest asset, but we all understand it's a liability, their primary home. It's all about money, how much money they're going to net. So if you can move people around by offering more money, and all you're asking for in return is time, you'd be surprised at how much headway you can make. 13:08 Then, I've never even heard anybody say that create motivated sellers, can you take give us a sneak peek about that one? How you do that? Is it by offering more cash? Or what's the secret there? 13:17 It's all about it's all about understanding what people want and what people need, right? What people want. And what people need are two different things. I think, I think there's this mindset when it comes to wholesale that when you're asking questions, you have to get down a pathway and make sure that you ask all the questions in the right order. And what happens is that people get into it. And they're like, oh, you know what, I forgot to ask this. So let me go back. And then the sequence seems a little bit jumbled. When you're talking about seller finance, or creative finance, when you truly understand what somebody wants, and what somebody needs, and getting answers to your questions without really asking the question. It positions you into a place where you can negotiate extremely effectively. I'll give you I'll give you an example. So I've got a I've got a guy who just got out of my training, he was in my training for five days, and he shoots me a text and he goes, I got a deal. And I said to myself, Man, he doesn't even know what a deal is yet, like yes and underwrote anything, and he says, No, you know, I got a deal. It's on the six Plex. And I took I took the deal and I underwrote the deal for him. But the reason why we were able to put the deal together is because we knew what the seller needed where she was moving. What she was buying the price point she was buying in how much money she was going to spend per month and then what the cash flow that we were getting out of this six Plex, we we turn to her and go hey, listen, what if we get you to live for free? And it's like, wait a minute, you're gonna get me to live for free. It's like yeah, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna give you X amount of money down I'm going to get you to live for free. And instead of talking in terms of years and months, where it's like, hey, I'll balloon you out in 10 years, which is the most ridiculous language to ever use inside creative finance, you should never use the word balloon, you should never use the, you know, the word year. It's all about, you know, hey, listen, if I made you 180 equal payments, and it hit your bank account every single month. Are you cool with that? You know, how you frame it up? 15:30 Man, this is powerful, right? So I kept on referring to like that the new people would be good that are benefit from this information. But like you said, this is really really advanced stuff. Right? So not really, 15:42 I mean, it sounds like it's super advanced. But it's really not. It's, it's all about time. 15:48 And yeah, it's these tiny little words and phrases and removing certain things from your vocabulary that cleans up exactly what you mean. And you get your point across without dropping anything on your own foot. Right? 16:01 I don't give I don't give sellers an opportunity to lie to me. 16:06 Can you give us an example. 16:08 I just don't give them an opportunity to lie to me. I, you know, I ask relevant questions that that will, that will gather as much information as I can, right. And then I go ahead and I leverage that against the seller. But it's it's really, there's no trickery here. Right? It's not like I pull a handkerchief out of my pocket and go, Hey, you know, you should, you should do it because of this. I think the real mistake is, most wholesalers see it as an option. Because they go, oh, you know what, if I can't buy it at 60 cents on the dollar, I'll offer the option of seller finance because I can pay more. And if you use it as an option, and not a solution, you kind of take away the power of creative finance, because it's all in how you spit it out of your mouth. So even though you said it was advanced, I think I'm talking to like a three year old. I'm like, Hey, I'm not talking about I'm not talking about pay off. I'm not talking about balloon. I'm not talking about anything. I'm asking for time. Right. So yeah, just just just really getting into the psyche of the of the seller. I've been on both ends of the coin. So for me, and I've said a lot of shit before I've walked through a pile of shit. And I've sat in it long enough until it stops thinking and then once it stops thinking you're like, oh, wait a minute, I got it, you know? Yeah. 17:33 Yeah. The longer the longer you in the game, the more of a genius you become. Just because you've just hit your head on so many different things. 17:40 I got some lumps, man. I feel 17:44 your pain on that one. I think I have more failed businesses and anybody else that I know. 17:49 I'm right behind you, brother. I'm right. 17:52 Hey, so you mentioned a money game. And I think of a money game. I'm thinking of like notes and that kind of stuff, moving percentages around and doing some of that fancy stuff. Is that what you were referring to? 18:02 Yeah, so understanding the money, I think I think I think for investors, they go, Oh, I can be making, right. So wholesale innovation deals, you're getting paid once creative deals, you're getting paid every month, you're getting paid every year, depending on how you hold them, you can hold them for the rest of your life on a game for me is is is teaching people not only how to make the money, but where the money is going to when you structure seller finance deals, or creative finance deals. And then how you use the refinance component to pull the money out of the property tax free and go buy another piece of property. People don't understand interest, they don't understand taxes, they don't understand debt, where, you know, we're kind of taught in this country to, you know, not not so much evade taxes, but avoid taxes, right? People get really pissed off, they're like, Man, I don't want to pay the government. This, I don't wanna pay the government that and man, you know, I was taught to not take on debt. The minute you get to learn about debt and taxes and start to love them, is when you start to see the real change in your real estate holdings, because the IRS code is a literal roadmap to show you how to avoid paying taxes through real estate. You know, and, you know, and, and large banks and small banks love to see real estate debt. So, taxes and debt, right, two things that we're taught to avoid our whole life. If you learn to love you can you can do amazing things with 19:36 Yeah, powerful distinction. And again, this is like, I guess people aren't thinking about that. They're just thinking about how can I make my next dollar, right? But once you accumulate enough of those things, you got to know what to do with them. Now what they have a whole new set of challenges. 19:51 Now you got to save them. You know how to how to kind of work the system because the money game is very, very simple. It's really simple. Real estate is The only vehicle that really gives you all four of those things that I mentioned earlier on that you want from your investments, you want the cash flow, you want the leverage, you want the tax advantages, and you want the appreciation, you can't get that anywhere else, right, you can't add value to a stock. You can't you can't open up a Lambo rental business, I drive it out of the drive it out of the showroom, you know, put a new set of tires on it, and all of a sudden think it's worth more with real estate, you can add value to real estate and keep going to the well. And wringing that asset out grabbing the money all while it's still cash flows, taking it out tax free and going to buy more property. That's really how the game is played. So I think it's this mind shift from like this cash now. I click my mouse. And if my package isn't at my front door from Amazon, in two minutes, I get pissed off to this long term view of real I hate to use the word generational wealth, because, you know, as well as I know, if you're not teaching those little bastards, man, we're going to be laying in the pine box, and they're going to be selling it all. So you know, it's it's more about sustainable wealth, you know? 21:14 Yeah, I see that right now, man. I mean, this is what we come across, right? Where grandma or grandpa or mom or dad worked their whole entire life to give their kids everything. And then they liquidate it to us for pennies on the dollar. Like what the heck? Yep. So what's the workaround for that? Like? How do you how do you prevent that from happening? 21:33 That's just gonna stay planning, right? I mean, you can control most of this real estate from the grave if you if you plan the right way. That's all about it's all about having the right team of people and the right team of people consists of a really good tax advisor, strategist, not a CPA, I'm usually the guy teaching the CPAs cuz they want to put you in a box. So you need a good tax strategist, you need a good attorney. And a good banker, you know, those three, and you can control most of this stuff from the grave? 22:08 That's amazing. Do you cover that in your training? Or is that something you refer out? 22:11 That's, that's a little bit like super, super advanced here. So what I what I do in the training is I kind of walk them through chronologically again, to make it easy so that people aren't like moving around, like how you hold property is so important, right? What type of entity you form. So we kind of start at ground level, where you know, will will form an LLC will form it in a state that has some anonymity. Sholom about bank accounts and EIN is we'll talk about strategy, We'll then move into like real estate types, what you're looking to accomplish, and then from there, we just kind of run usually work. Week three, and four is all underwriting showing you what you can do with interest. showing you some crafty stuff, man that people aren't really even know what a good example is, Anthony, you and I walk into a Chevrolet, like a Chevrolet dealer, and we're going to, we're going to pick up a Camaro, or we're going to shop for a Camaro, or it's me and my wife, and we're going to shop for a Camaro. And I've got up I've got a number in my head before I walk into the Camaro dealer, and what I want to spend, and let's just say it's 350 bucks. As soon as they walk into the Camaro dealer, the salesman walks over and he goes, Hey, how you doing? And I go, good, how you doing? And he goes, What are you here for? And I said, Well, you know, I'm thinking about the Camaro. And the first thing out of his mouth is, how much do you want to spend per month? Or what are you comfortable with per month, he doesn't talk to you about interest rates, he doesn't talk to you about term. He's just talking to you about how much you're comfortable with. So if I've got a comfortable, like a comfortable payment of $350 in my head, and I say to him, 350 bucks, he immediately brings me to the Camaro that has the tint and the wheels on it and goes, you can have this one for 425 bucks. And I sit there with my wife and I go, you know, honey, it's an extra $75 a month, we can figure out a way to get it done. And it's that psychology, inside seller finance. When you're on the side where you're the maker of the note, you're the one that's that spitting out all of this stuff, and putting it together that when you understand where the money goes, oh my god, it's like, it's like, why would I ever wholesale? 24:32 Yeah, yeah. So so after four years in the game, I I'm kicking myself in the butt like dang it. I could have done a lot a lot cooler things with with the with the properties, creating notes, which is the space moving, moving heavily into now. And knowing how it works on that end, right. Buying something selling it for the same price, you know, just playing with the percentages playing with the interest. A lot of that stuff wasn't on my radar. 24:57 Right. It works in seconds. Yeah. Yeah, 25:02 this is all part of your training. 25:04 So I'll I'll cover wraps and note creation towards the end. But I'm very, I'm very heavily focused on showing people how to identify, underwrite and structure, seller finance, finance deals. so important 25:23 and so important. If I knew how important how important creating paper was, I would have made that my focus from day one. You 25:30 and me both, I'm kicking myself in the ass for all that property I sold. 25:37 Yes, yeah. So let's talk about this walk us through how can we go over what's covered? Like, is it like modules? Is it weekly? Is it meetings? Is it phone calls? Can you cover price points? Is there different price points for like to get in? 25:49 Yeah, it's all of it. So it's, it's live, it's virtual. It's on a zoom. It's two hours, every session, I tell everybody just block an additional hour. Because I'll run over, I don't stop talking. I don't usually get off the Zoom until I've got everybody's questions answered. So week one is going to be LLCs real estate types. We'll talk about tax, we'll talk about income, all that stuff, just get like some of the preliminary stuff out of the way. Week two, we'll talk about principal interest. We'll talk about some of the basics of seller finance. Week three, and four is going to be all underwriting showing you where the money goes, some of some of some lead generating sources that not many people utilize, I give it just to my students. And then we'll we'll talk a little bit about sub two and why I can't stand it. I'll talk a little bit about wraps. I'll give you a matrix. We'll talk about some contracts. I only put 10 in a class. I don't take any more than that. Yeah, just because I've got to answer everybody's questions. And like I said, I don't really preach, I teach. So cameras on microphones on and we're doing it together. I sell out, I usually sell out about a month in advance. I've got I think six spots left open for December, the training is 2900 bucks for a seat. But you can bring a guest. So if you have somebody on your team, you can split the cost with somebody on your side. And then you can take the training in January, it's going to 4900 bucks. So this is the last in December is the last time that uh, that we you know, we get to I guess people get to get a discount. 27:41 Yeah, dude. So the magician behind the curtain just dropped a link in the chat. If you look below the video, and I'll tell you guys, you will save more than that on your very first transaction, you will save more than that. So if anybody that that number is hard to stomach from anybody, I promise you, you're gonna lose that amount over and over and over and over and over again. And I can tell you because I've been doing it, I've been losing that amount of money over and over again for three and a half years. Dude, as soon as I learned how to play with these numbers on a deal that I should have made about 20 on or 25 on. It's paying 57. So just from tweaking the numbers. Yeah, yeah. So what 2020 $22,000 difference in pay? Yeah, I did the numbers, right. Yeah, it's 28:30 amazing stuff you can do here with amazing stuff you can do with with creative, you can get as creative as you want to, right. I mean, you could finance anything, right? So you can financing MD you can you can, you can put different calls in place. And you know, if people have an objection about having, or needing more money, you can pay him in 18 months or 24 months, you could do all types of stuff. It's amazing. 28:55 Yeah, it really is. It's a whole nother universe. And I don't know if people can grasp that right now if you're new or advanced. But if you learn how to play with the numbers, you know, you can really make some magic happen. Like you can do completely unorthodox deals. You can do deals that didn't look like they were doing the beginning. Where you just you don't see it. And then somebody else like Mike shows you and says, Hey, let me see that piece of paper real quick. And then they've been the numbers they've been the math so well that it makes the a mediocre deal into an amazing deal. Yeah, missing those left and right. 29:23 And it gets people to bite, right? Because again, money is a motivator, right? So if you're trying to you know, I say this to wholesalers all the time if you're all pulling the same list, you're all skipping the same list. And you're all kicking the same seller in the ass day in and day out trying to buy it at a discount like what makes you believe that you're going to be lucky color number nine on the day and they're gonna go congratulations, you know, you get to buy my house at a discount after they 29:46 heard everybody else's crappy offer and you drop in just as crappy you sound like the last guy he hung up on. Yeah, 29:51 you know, so it's like, why not shit. Why not? Try to understand that. If you bring me time. I don't even care about your numbers, you bring me time. And I'm going to structure a deal. I don't you know, people, you know, like the four pillars, right motivation, timeline, condition and price. I can care less about condition and price. I want to know about your motivation and your timeline. And those two are connected at the hip. And you know, what the right questions and the right the right kind of structure. I mean, if you can't sway somebody, I just had this conversation with somebody the other day, right? If somebody is really hell bent on a $200,000 number, and you can't sway somebody by offering 230 or 240, or 250, you've got a sales problem. You need to sales training, right? I mean, at that point, you need to understand how to get it out of your mouth fluidly. So that a seller can bite and go, Wow, you know, yeah, why wouldn't we? You know, so, yeah, it's an amazing strategy. Amazing. I mean, and it's the least risky strategy Anthony out of all of them, right? Subject to you're worried about, you know, the long getting call, do you worried about the insurance component, your regions or paperwork heavy like crazy. On the back end, you got to be careful with power of attorney and attorney. In fact, hybrid deals, you run into the same thing, but seller finance deals, even wholesale deals, right? You're worried about some stuff up front, but seller finance deals, you are merely making the homeowner the bank. Simple as that. 31:29 Yeah, man, I love them. And when I started in real estate, I didn't have the capital to buy the properties. You know, I started out with just maybe like 50 grand in the bank, I blew like half of that on marketing. And it went good, I started, I didn't have a really fast start. But if somebody gave me a $500,000, property for 200, grand, I didn't have it. Right. And no known way to access it. No partners, no private money, nothing. So I could have, I would have completely blew that deal just by not knowing what to do. So we immediately started pitching seller finance from the very beginning. Like just like I said, just because if we didn't have any other choice, but it's like, so I accidentally trained my brain to do that. But if you're not already doing it in the beginning, you're missing a lot of opportunity. You're missing, you're just completely missing the boat. If you're counting on on some crazy wholesale number, that's not going to work anymore, right? Because everybody in their mom's trying to wholesale right now. 32:21 Yeah. Yeah, if you've only got one, one tool in a tool belt, or you heard it before, like, one trick pony, you're in trouble here, you know, as he ain't, and I mean, the Feds gonna raise the interest rate again. Right. So here we go, we're gonna get another 75 basis points in November, I think we'll probably get another 50 basis points in December, when that happens as as if it isn't, you know, horrible enough now, because we've had the cheapest money we ever had six months ago. So the perception is, right. I mean, the perception is, Well, shit, I'm gonna get out, I'm gonna get out of the game, I'm gonna wait. The hedge funds have all pulled out with the exception of a few. They're all on the sidelines with a with with a, I mean, massive amount of cash ready to jump back in. And I think what most people don't understand is that I, at least in my lifetime, I'm 48 years old. Now, I don't see another opportunity coming down the pipeline, like I see now. And I've been in up down up markets, down markets, sideways markets. And usually I'm looking at the tail. So the train going shit, man, I missed it. And then sometimes, like, I'm jumping on the train as it's right in front of me, and I'm holding on for dear life. And for the first time in my life, I'm looking down the right hand side, and I'm going, Oh, I can see the headlights coming. And all of the property that was sold to these hedge funds, as these wholesalers were like, Yeah, this is amazing, they're paying top dollar, those properties are never going to hit the market. Again. They're in it for the long, you know, like the long term. So if they're in it for the long term, because they understand what time can do for their bottom line, thinking about what time could do for our bottom line, right? It's merely doing exactly what the banks are doing just seeing it through a different lens. So when the Fed raises the rate again, there has never been a better opportunity to understand creative and I don't think we're gonna get another buying opportunity like this at all. 34:19 Why is why is it time now because I've heard that again, like just recently. Why is this time going to be different than any point in history or moving forward? 34:27 I think it's the monetary policy you know, in this in this in this country, fiscal policy, monetary policy, the printing of the money right all of this stuff taking and I'm not I'm not a real like you know, I don't I listen to a lot of guys but you know, when we turned into a fiat currency, taking the money off the gold standard, just started printing the money then we had the crash and you know, 2008 We went on a 13 year run it just printing money printing money, printing money, it's like a house of cards right? At the end of the day that you know, this thing is going to come crashing down. On, and we are we, you know, money never leaves the market, it just transfers to those who are prepared. And we are in a, we're in a massive, massive wealth transfer. As as we speak, you and I, we're in a massive transfer here. And I just think, you know, we got all these different things that are going on against us, you know, we've got, we had COVID People that are out of work, people that don't want to go back to work, that landscape has changed, interest rates are through the roof, inflation is through the roof, people are squeezed, you know, what happens to the people who really need to sell. And can, you know, we're looking at we're looking at days on market is coming up, prices are coming down. All of the all of the all of the property that was sold isn't coming back to market, we've got a $4 million housing, I mean, a 4 million were shy 4 million houses four and a half million houses in the country. So I think more I think more townships and more more villages and towns and counties are starting to open up some zoning, where we could technically, you know, turn turn, maybe single families and duplexes just by right not have to jump through the hoops or go through any kind of rezoning. So I think that's where the opportunity lies is that the more invested in real estate you are, the more you know about it. And then having all of these tools at your, at your disposal, I think just opens up an opportunity that there really wasn't there. It looks like it's crashing, but for US investors, I'm ready for the party to get started. It started already. 36:36 That's something having I think access to not only the the capital, having access to the tools to the people, right, if money's a game, right and real estate's a game, right, it's like choose your fighter, right. So you grab somebody like cash money, Mike or somebody else that you love in the game, standing next to somebody who understands how to navigate the storm. And then from there, it should be fairly simple. But if you try to figure it out by yourself, you're gonna get run over because it's gonna happen so quickly. By the time you figure out what happened, you're probably going to have already missed the bulk of the action. 37:08 Yeah, yeah, you hit the nail right on the head. That's why it's so important right now to to educate yourself. This is usually the time when things start to get a little bit crazy. And that's why the education space is blowing up is it's people are looking for other things to do with this time, right. So now is really where real estate, real estate is really, the place you want to be. If you're trying to if you're if your goal is to is to is to turn the volume down and sit on the beach and drink your pina colada or be up in the mountains and doing whatever you want to do with your family. Not have to worry about money, you better get into real estate or get left behind. 37:44 Yeah, I agree, man, especially when there's people like yourself like myself, we're we're kind of teaching people what to do how to navigate, right? So we're jumping into it first. And also, you know, providing value helping people out. But you're also casting a wider net, right? So hey, if you see these types of opportunities, bring them over to me. So I can take a look at it and see what to do from here. So there's a lot of people doing this, a lot of people playing that game, right. And I love that game, because you're helping somebody that otherwise wouldn't know what to do. But you're also widening your presence, right? You're, you're widening your marketing eyes and ears. So very smart thing to do from our side. And then like I said, a very smart thing for the listeners to do on their side is to pair up with somebody like yourself and go after it and figure out what to do. I'm excited then, you know, last recession, I was in my I was doing construction. So I didn't even know what a recession was. I missed completely missed it. I didn't know anything about real estate investing so and by the time it was over, I didn't even know what it happened. I didn't know what it meant, like, what's the recession? How did I was just was just a construction guy. So now knowing this time, what we're heading into, I think we're in a position to help a lot of people both on the investor side and also on the seller side, right? So I don't know if anybody looks at real estate investing, and they kind of don't know what kind of service we're providing. But we're doing a lot to on their side. We're moving around a lot of things helping their life not fall apart while they're trying to navigate the storm. 39:07 Yeah, I love that. Yeah. 39:09 I think that's what's so great about the real estate community too. And like, just guys like you is like everybody is so incredibly helpful, right? So like new people who get into this space, right? It's so confusing because there's so many different systems and processes and strategies and stuff like that. But to your point getting around the right people and just kind of pairing up with the right people can really fast track your way to success. You know, you kind of cut the line when you when you you know when you get involved with other people who have been down the path that you're looking to go down 39:41 I think on our in our world to like these other real estate investors, if they're not doing it, right, then they say, Hey, that guy's a coach. He made a course and they kind of poke fun at you a little bit but it's like man, I really really love what I'm doing right so that's the hat that I have to wear. I frickin love it because every day I get the text and the phone calls and say hey, I got my finally got my first deal. Somebody just submitted we have a million dollar deal mastermind so we're doing a large farm and rented deals and so new kids are submitting them. And we got a submission that looks like it's gonna be a home run this might be disguised first deal. So I'm proud of what I do, man. I frickin love it. Yeah, yeah, we really are bringing something cool to the marketplace. And I think you're gonna protect a lot of people too, from getting their heads chopped off, because wholesaling and real estate investing was going viral for the last several years. So there's a bunch of new kids just rushing in quitting their jobs. And many times I've heard that I'm gonna quit my job and do real estate full time. So how many millions of people do you think, have recently quit their job, and they're heading into this market? 40:35 Now I just I just picked up a sub two on market from a wholesaler out in Texas that ran to the MLS and said, You know, when you run to the MLS, and you put it off for a flat fee, you're you're flat out telling me that you can't sell it anywhere. So you put it up on the MLS and like, I'm able to sniff this stuff out. Like there's so many deals on market to that, like you can really find from that from just that alone, right? So many people getting into it, playing the appreciation, and now everybody's kind of stuck. There's a lot of adjustable rate, like loans on multifamily stuff that's starting to pinch some people so a lot of opportunity, man, when you really understand it. There is a ton of it. A ton of it. But yeah, good point, like, just so many people got in and you know, 41:19 they're gonna get slaughtered with shiny object. So we're coming in, like the medics with our tool cases, like, 41:27 again, you're in a battlefield like in a war. Journey, man ready to take bodies out? Yeah, there's gonna be a bunch of bodies hit the floor right now, man, I think 41:37 it's starting now. You know? 41:39 Yeah, we're seeing it, we're seeing a lot of it, people having to go back to whatever they were doing before they got into real estate. So they're gonna have to sit it out for a couple years because they weren't getting ready for it. Or they didn't, they didn't connect with somebody like yourself to help them go move the way forward, man. So I'm just very curious. Just like I said, I'm excited. We're doing okay, that we have we have deals in the pipeline, they're gonna last another year, you know, and we're not slowing down at all. And even if the market slowed down, and sales stop happening, nobody's gonna starve to death. Right. So I think that just knowing how to play the game. 42:09 Yeah. foot on the gas. Right now. foot on the gas. 42:13 Yeah, that's what I think. Right? And if if so if things are gonna slow down and get stagnant go faster. So we always ask every guest on here, man. What's a quote that you like? or something, a quote that you resonate with? Oh, boy, man, that's somebody else's? Yeah, that's a 42:30 loaded question. There's so many that I resonate with. 42:37 I got a bunch of them. And I always watch quotes, but I have quite a few that I love. Yeah, 42:42 I mean, I can I mean, I don't know if it's actually a quote, but I mean, because there are a bunch of them. And I'm not going to remember off the top of my head, Anthony, I'll be dead honest with you. I think I think the important thing to remember inside this game of life, is that your health is the most important your faith above, all right, and then your health is your most important. And then your family comes after that without your health, you can't have your family and you can take all the money away from me, like tomorrow, and I can go live in a fucking tent somewhere. And I'll be fine. You know what I mean? So I just think that you keep things in perspective when you go into something like this, because you could really get sidetracked with, because the money is good, right? I mean, you put a deal together, just like you said, with your student with his first deal, right? It could be a banger. And you can get really sidetracked. So I just think that people should have very clear goals. And they should have all of their all of their priorities in line before they get into something like this. But I mean quotes. I mean, there's so many of them. There's just so many I couldn't even think of one off the top of my head, I'll be done. 43:55 Drop one into the chat after. But I love the wisdom, man, because that's something that I talk about a lot. I have what I call the 10 commandments of real estate investing for our community. And number 10 is to spend spend some time in prayer meditation, spend some time in silence 10 to 40 minutes a day. Without that you have nothing you have absolutely nothing. Yeah, yeah, we're real big on health team in really big so we're actually starting to health segment of the podcast we want to start talking more about that because even somebody like myself, I've done a juice fast and water fasts over 21 days over 23 days. So I've done like, all kinds of insane testing on myself for like from like a health perspective. And last year while we were building hive mind, I freaking gained like 25 pounds man, I stopped going to the gym like I stopped putting myself first and it was hurtful. It was hurtful to my business. My relationships like you know, when you when you're when you're not feeling right, you're heavy. You're just not taking care of yourself. It seems like even though things are going amazing in business, like other things are coming apart. And I think that's what you pointed out and that's what you mentioned. And so I appreciate you talking about that. 44:59 Yeah, yeah. For sure, it's important. You got to take care of yourself. I don't do the best job taking care of myself. It's usually like steaks and cakes for me. 45:07 100% steak, I go through a ton of red meat, but I'm not super big like on, you know, just eating just knocking down bowls of pasta and stuff like that. 45:16 I remember I remember. I remember you telling me or somebody told me it's like, you eat a bunch of red meat. And it's and I think you said it to me that it's like changed. It changed your body like makes you makes you feel better. Yeah, 45:29 super strong man. super strong. I recently gave up caffeine. Like, I've just it's changed a lot. My recovery in the gym is amazing, right? I'm 41 now, and it's almost impossible for me to get sore. I mean, very rarely do I get sore CrossFit five days a week. And just I think it's straight to diet then because I've tried everything. I was like kind of like a raw vegan for almost 10 years. Like just all vegetables and fruits and all that and adding a lot of fat and meat to my diet. It's done a lot for my mental performance. My sleep everything man is a complete game changer. That's amazing. 45:58 Yeah, everybody's body's different. I I went vegan for about six months. I felt great. Yeah. And then found a steakhouse jumped into a steak house had a rib. I was like, Okay, I'm back. 46:11 Yeah, man, I think it's about for one balance, right? Because I think there is a time for you to do like a cleanse, a three day cleanse water, water fasts, that kind of stuff. And then also, there's the time to build right, like everything else, everything expands and contracts. But yeah, adding a lot of fat and meat to my diet. It says it's been tremendous for me, I look to be in the cattle business one day at from some regard. And I really believe in that preserving like our Earth, our farms and our ranches protecting our waterways. So that's why I chose the land business, man. It's a lot bigger than just making coal paychecks. 46:42 Sounds like you're passionate about it. I'm sure you're gonna be amazing. 46:45 Thank you, man. I appreciate it. Well, I appreciate you coming on here. Man. This was a fun one. And yeah, I encourage every like I said, please sign up for this training. It's the last time you're gonna see it this cheap. We got 2900 bucks. 46:55 Yeah, 2900 bucks. I got six spots left. And then I'm breaking for Christmas, man. I'm taking it nice and easy for Christmas. Gonna head up North and then get back at it in January. But yeah, 47:07 beautiful man. Yeah. So he's allowing you to bring a free guest to the to the program. So you can split it with somebody else. So you each pay half. And I promise you, like I said, the stuff that we touched on, I haven't taken the training, which I'm sure I will. But it's gonna save you a lot more. You're gonna you're gonna make way more than that, just by taking the training because I already know what just what you alluded to. Like I said, just for myself, right now I'm gonna be positive like $27,000 or more just from learning some of the elements that you're teaching in. So yeah, I encourage anybody to take advantage of that. If there's still a seat open. I do that immediately. 47:38 I appreciate you. Yeah. So real quick, that guy who put that deal under contract, he overpaid by 80,000. So she wanted 500 He wound up paying 580 I got on a plane and flew to his hometown to go look at the deal that I underwrote. I offered him 1.1 million on site. And he told me no. Which was the right thing. So this guy made a half a million dollars with a stroke of a pen. 48:04 Wow, dude, holy smokes. 48:07 No joke. I was I was a little jealous. I was like shit, like I structure some really good deals for myself. But for me to do that for a student and have the student do it. He was like, You changed my whole life. I was like, we're just getting started. Literally, we're working on 64 unit right now. So we've got a lot of good things coming down the pipeline, a lot of good opportunity for everybody. 48:33 You give my 29 $100 bills, they'll teach you how to make half a million. And it happens like you said it happens over and over and over again. The more you do it the easier it gets. gets easy. Insane, dude. Okay, man. Well, this was a fun one. Daniel said you mentioned that he wants to run part two of this so we can do some deal breakdowns. So yeah, I guess we'll we'll run through something like that next time. 48:55 Anytime, brother. I appreciate you having me on man. Dude, thanks for hanging out. This 48:59 one was freaking amazing. I hope people watch this one and take get some good takeaways out of it. 49:03 I appreciate you Anthony. 49:04 Thank you, bro. See you soon. All right, man.

Daniel Esteban MartinezProfile Photo

Daniel Esteban Martinez

Host/ Ceo/ Speaker

I have been an entrepreneur since 2018. I come from a regular home just like most people. My dad worked on the roads in the Chicago area for over 30 years. He always taught me to work with my brain, instead of my body. Your body can only take so much abuse. I learned so much from my father. He always pushed me to work smarter and not harder.

I have owned and operated a trucking business for 2 years. I started learning real estate in 2019. Fell into the Data & Skiptracing business in 2020. My partner Anthony & I started Hivemind in 2021.

I have done a ton of different jobs coming up from painting, to door-to-door sales, telemarketing, truck driving, and loading trailers. What I learned most is that I want to stay in the digital business space. The leverage you can have delivering digital products to the marketplace can yield limitless possibilites.

I started The List Guys in 2020. It is a data and skiptracing service. We provide seller and buyers list nationwide. My clients have been getting great results and I am proud to help people killing it.

I started the Hive in 2021 with my partner Anthony Gaona. It is a real estate and business mastermind. It also comes with a all in one CRM, that can host unlimited websites and users.

Starting the Hivemind has been an amazing journey so far. Seeing one of our users make his 6 figure month in June 2021 leveraging our software, I know there will be plenty more to come!

Anthony GaonaProfile Photo

Anthony Gaona

Host/ Ceo/ Speaker

Hi! I am Anthony Gaona.
I’ve been in digital marketing for almost 15 years.I grew up in construction working for my dad when I was only 12 years old. Normally we had a ton of work or no work at all so a lot of my free time was spent learning how to generate leads.

It didn’t take very long for me to master online marketing because I became absolutely obsessed with it. For the last 15 years I’ve been generating construction based leads. At first I was running the projects myself. This led to sub-contracting all of the excess projects and eventually wholesaling the leads off to other construction companies.

One day I was preparing to build a single family residence for myself. In mid December, 2018, a simple YouTube search led me to the term wholesaling and the rest is history. The plan was to use my construction background to start flipping houses. By January 1st of 2019 I launched several marketing campaigns both on and offline for real estate seller leads.

Within about 4-5 weeks I had my first real estate contract locked up. It didn’t take long for me get a land lead where I made almost a full year’s pay on a single transaction. This came from a land lead and that forever changed my life.

I ran low volume larger land deals for the first two years of my real estate career. Like anyone who has been in real estate investing for an extended period of time, I started thinking about scaling my business.

Instead of deciding to vertically integrated and start hiring I imagined a model where I would teach my real estate investing methods to others. This would free up my personal bandwidth and allow for unlimited large scale transactions.

Currently our operations are expanding globally. The goal is to identify one person per major US Market that we can build a team around and drive traffic to so we can close high volume transactions together.

You can learn more about our vision and join our free mastermind by joining hivemind CRM on Facebook and all social channels

Kashmoneymike_Profile Photo


Needle Mover

Creative Real Estate- Seller Finance Educator. 20 yrs in the game