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Nov. 3, 2022

Ep 256: Gary pinkerton: First Real Estate Deal Story

Ep 256: Gary pinkerton: First Real Estate Deal Story


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0:00 Fine All right guys, welcome. Welcome. Welcome to my first deal. 0:11 We're gonna edit that. Alright everybody welcome to my first deal story podcast. This your host, Brittany Thompson, Leon Thompson. Today we've got a special guest. I know I just totally took it from him. Today we've got a special guest, I cannot wait for you all to find out who it is, what he's done, what he's doing his about his first deal, how he's helping other people. It's gonna be amazing. So get ready, Leon now you can go ahead and kick us off. Oh, man. 0:43 I love doing these podcasts. And I'm happy to have Gary Pinkerton on this podcast. Man, he, he'll tell you his story. But we got connected to him from just a real estate friend of ours that really has empowered us, that gave us different ways out that think outside the box and help us you know how to handle deals, how to how to manage our deals, how to fund our deals the right way. And there's all types of ways to do it. And so many things out there in the world where you can get lost in confusion with everything that's out there. But Gary, he's gonna give us clarity on how he got his deals and what he's doing now. 1:17 Yeah. So welcome, Gary. Thank 1:20 you. Thank you. I feel like I'm running through one of those tunnels, you know, out to the game. guy, the guy you were talking about Aaron Chapman. Awesome. So if you haven't listened to that one, please do go back and listen to it. Deep, deep, awesome friend, great friend of mine. And he's changed people's lives out there. So he's changed mine. Hey, I appreciate you all bringing me on. You know, you know, who am I? What do I do? Right? So my story starts a little bit further back than you all's you know. But it's helpful to I think, understand, because my baggage, if you want to call it baggage, my inspiration for directly on rental properties goes way back, it goes back to when I was like a teenager. And so I grew up in the late 70s, early 80s, on a dairy farm in Southern Illinois. And what's important about that, is that it was the end of Jimmy Carter's presidency in the beginning of Reagan's presidency, there's about a four year period of time there, we did not have control over interest rates. It's the only time in America where interest rates have really been over 10% for any reasonable amount of time on on real estate or bank accounts or whatever. And during that period, it actually peaked out at 21%. And the month that peaked out at 21% was, you know, when you hear Warren Buffett say, you know, everyone looks good, while the times are good, right? But it's when it's when the tide rolls out that you realize who's swimming naked, right? Well, we're back to having control over interest rates in our future on that farm, we were totally swimming naked. And that, you know, the early 80s just wiped us out in a very short period of time. And so there was this, I'll call it baggage again, that I had with respect to being on the wrong side of inflation and interest rates, I really didn't understand, really, I didn't understand it. i All I knew is I wanted to get the heck out of Illinois. So I joined the Naval Academy because it was free, which was super important at the time, because we were bankrupt. And it offered a job which I also really, really liked. So and I knew it was going to take me places that were no oceans in Illinois, so I knew it was gonna take me somewhere else. So all of that stuff was perfect for me. And I went on my way. And it wasn't until probably 20 years later, I'm at a reunion and talking to my old next door neighbors and asking them like, why didn't you guys go bankrupt? Right. And then I realized that, you know, one neighbor was like, third generation family and all of our farms when I was like in grade school, all of our farms were worth maybe a couple $100,000, which are silly numbers today. But the so they had a paid off farm. And then on the other side was this, this family that seems to always have like new vehicles and stuff, but I you know, he said, Yeah, we had a loan on our farm to back then. But my dad mentioned to me that the difference was that you guys had variable interest rate loans, and we had some fixed interest rate thing. And so what I know now being a financial professional and talking to people about this and doing the numbers every day, kind of using my nuclear engineering background to dig through all this is I realized that the guy who had a paid off farm had $200,000 That turned into $600,000, over a couple of years, right? Pretty cool. And the other guy, they only had like 20 or $30,000 in their $200,000 farm. And it also went to 600. So they got wealthy because they were on the right side of interest rates have been protected from that, right. And our loan and property value. Were at that, you know, 30 or 40,000. And they both just went up to 600. Right. So just you know, the loan went right with it when you were susceptible to high interest rates. So all of that's kind of bouncing around in me throughout my Navy career. I get to 2008 910 11 I'm in command of the USS Tucson out in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii and my submarine career and And the markets crash, and I paid no attention because I was taught you just push your money off to somebody else, a professional, let them handle things, and they'll take care of it. And then when you're ready to retire, it'll all be there for you. Right. But I saw a large portion of my money fall apart. And thankfully, some of it came back by 2011 when I had time to pay attention again. But what I learned big time there was that I was just on the roller coaster right? I had no control, no insight, no one called me and say, Hey, man, we got this, you know. So it was it was quite interesting, because at that same moment, I had 150 people on my nuclear submarine with me. And I would always get reports when something wasn't going right. Right. If it didn't safe, yet, in my financial life for my family, I had, you know, I was just freefall and hoping that when I pull the parachute, it works. Right. So I had to get into real estate. And that was kind of the motivation for for me, you know, 10 years ago now 11 years ago. And so that launched me on going out and getting directly owned rental properties. Yeah. Wow, that 6:01 is incredible. So you're speaking to a lot of different? Did I steal it from you? No, you're good. So you get different beginnings and dynamics from growing up on a dairy farm and experiencing like you mentioned, the not the less favorable side of interest rates, whether they're variable and fixed, to going into the Navy and for let me just take a second, thank you for your service. Thank you for sacrificing your time, and in everything to keep us safe and to have commands. So thank you for that we salute you. But to take the dairy farm to go into the military, and now you're like, oh, that's what happened. That's incredible. Well, I mean, I need to get on the right side of this. So I hope that the people listening can hear the different backgrounds. So maybe you come from humble beginnings. Or maybe you are a brain sciences like this nuclear engineer, we're talking to you. And either way, there's room for you in real estate investing. So thank you for giving us your background and giving us insight into that. We appreciate that. So yeah, if you could share with us, what was your first real estate deal? Like? How did you find that deal, Gary? 7:17 Yeah, so this was a so where I found this deal actually was on the real estate guys. Radio. So I think it was a podcast by them. But these guys have been in radio, they're good friends of mine. They've been in radio for like 2530 years, I think. And they converted to podcasts. And they're still a great source for how to get started as an investor, you know. And so I heard somebody advertised on that it was this guy who was building properties in San Antonio, Texas, even successfully doing it before the Oh, a crash and somehow through the Oh, a crash. So now looking back on it, this seems obvious. I remember I was on a date with my wife once and we were in this dinner theater place. And like a movie theater where you they bring your dinner, right? And I remember looking up and it's kind of dark, so I couldn't see a whole lot. But this waitress is bringing a pitcher of beer. And it was like holding it on the side. And I remember thinking, wow, that's odd. I didn't know that was possible. And guess what? It wasn't shortly after that the beer was in my lap. But I remember now back to this guy who was like the only guy successfully building through the 2008 910 correction. I was like, wow, that's odd. I didn't know that was possible. Guess what it wasn't. What was happening was this guy was running his own little Ponzi scheme now because he started out that way. But he was a good guy just trying to hold things together. And he was behind with contractors and paying them he was behind with the city hadn't paid into the impound fees, but none of this was obvious to me. All I knew was I was getting thankfully a well constructed beautiful four four Plex down in San Antonio Texas and I went down for the closing because it was my first one and everything worked fine. It was beautiful it you know, water ran electric button and everything. And he gave me a guaranteed rent for two years. Basically he leased it back from me and was subleasing it to the tenants. Why he did that he said was because it's the first property in the subdivision. I also don't recommend a new investor get the first property in the subdivision. 9:16 So so he said, Hey, I'm going to lease it back because I can get tenants from my other subdivision and put them in here. And sounds good to me. I liked the idea of guaranteed rent and I know a lot of other investors out there like the idea of guaranteed rent but please just pause and wonder why are they given me a guarantee for this rent why is that necessary? Why if it you know if I have is good property and a great market like they've been telling me with, you know, rising incomes and lots of no a list for people to get my property. Why do they have to give me a guaranteed income, right? So what I found out was a Well mine was much worse than just it might be hard to get in there. What was really true in my case, I found out two months later, so two months in This property, I get a letter, well, first of all, he starts to become a little slow with the rent. And it's just the excuses, right? And so, but you know, I started to worry a little bit about it. But then I get this thing in the mail from the city of San Antonio bear County, and they said, Hey, your summons to come to court because you've been putting people in your property that is not doesn't have a certificate of occupancy. So call the number on there. And it's the building code division. And they're like, Yeah, you haven't even built the property. What do you think in putting people on the property? I'm like, no, no, it's done. Like I went toward it. It's beautiful. I got the loan. The appraiser looked at it, he was happy. And they said, Well, according to our permits, you haven't completed the mechanical inspections, the electricals. And so this is a long story. But I'll shorten it to say that this guy was just wallpapered over everything he could probably think of, he took, when I the day I was down there and everything was working, he had electrical out electrical, like the little meters from his other complex, he had water pipes that he had a hard pipe, and he took appliances from other his other complex to put in there. So the guy was just trying to get through closing so that he get paid to live another couple of days. And the reason that none of these services were there is because we hadn't paid the impound fees. So I took some time out off the Navy, was at the Pentagon at the time, and I took some time off two weeks of vacation, I went down and I just moved in, and started fixing the thing and paid off all those fees, the impound fees and everything. And so I was probably negative 100 grand when you think about rents, the rents that were given up, and then the fees and everything and the repairs. Oh, and by the way, some kids went in there and had parties and like knocking holes in the walls and stuff like this. Oh, my God, this is a serious horror story, right? But the reason I'm calling that to your clients is or to your listeners is because, you know, at first it almost caused me to take my soccer ball and go home, right? Yeah, for sure. Evidence, the confidence that came from turning this thing around. Now, I'm not kidding, it's my favorite property. But the confidence that came from being able to personally figure out how to turn it around. And I will admit, by the grace of God, I got lucky. And I started in a really hot market. And so this property has more than doubled in value. And I've refinanced it twice. And I've gotten back all the money that I the extra money I put in and everything right, so now 10 years later, it looks like a total smoking really smart move. But it did not at the beginning, I promise to make a ton more money on the confidence that I brought from making it through that thing, right, and learning about questions to ask from the earlier property. So I would say to people, you know, big lessons I learned there are certainly get references, I did get references, but you know what I call this mom as a reference. Like I was pretty, I was pretty naive. And and so she didn't have his last name. But you know, I didn't ask really smart questions like how do you know this guy? You know? Yeah. And, and so you know, I learned some lessons. But you know, don't go too fast. When you're buying properties. I think I think you can learn 80% of the experience getting one property. I've seen people who get like six they refinance their primary residence, and they get six all at once. Honeymoon ends, it can really crash hard. So and I think everybody experiences a honeymoon. Mine was like two weeks long, but Right. I'll stop there. But that's that's my Halloween Horror Story. First one. But isn't it 13:28 low stories where I see people who almost kind of like, if they did not persevere through their first deal. I mean, they were getting their teeth getting kicked, and you're basically got your teeth kicked in, just because, like you said, it sounds like a great deal. But you know, why would you ever put a guarantee on it? If it was such a great deal? Yes. And any good hot market, you need growing market, you don't have to guarantee it because you know, those rents, those those tenants are going to be coming in. So 13:59 Wow. And due diligence is that this is like the story. Due diligence is important. Have your standard operating procedures in place. Things to check people to Okay, make sure permits like like this. This is amazing for somebody that's new. Now, let me ask you this, Gary, you describe how you found out about the property about the subdivision? Did you go into it knowing that you were going to be acquiring rentals? Because I know there's so many strategies out there. Is that what you went into into this for? Was it a four Plex you said 14:30 or did Yes, of course. Four Plex new construction four Plex in San Antonio. Did you said Did I go into it knowing I was going to be acquiring renters is up to me 14:39 well, that you were going to be going into the rental strategy for real estate like did you already know you were going for cash flow? Because 14:44 so yeah, yep. So at the time, I didn't know I was going to go be an infinite banking expert and meet with clients full time. Right. What I thought I was going to do is live on the cash flow from my rentals. And now that I know more about myself That's just never going to be satisfying for me. I mean, maybe if I'm out like building properties, or syndicating or something that would have been Yeah. But I'm more inspired about what I'm personally doing now that at that moment, I was just trying to take money out of the markets, put it into a place where I can protect from inflation. Because also remember, around this time, Congress started talking about this, or the Fed started talking about this thing called quantitative easing, and it was going to be temporary. And we were going to do a couple. But I was like, Whoa, I've seen this printing money thing in my childhood, I'm getting on the other side. So I was trying to do like two things at once I was trying to get cash flow, so that I could step away from my w two income and be around the family for the first time in a while. And I was trying to get my family's assets, what we had left after 2008 in some place where it would be protected from inflation. Right. Wow. And so, you know, ironically, this is really kind of funny, but I love Aaron Chapman's product, right, and he loves my product. The reason I love his is because I don't really excited about tenants and toilets. I think it's cool that the property appreciates every once in a while, right? And the cash flow didn't end up being the savior that got me out of my job, because I started my own business here. And I'm much more enthused about that now. Right? But the thing that really in my core is what caused me to go down there and fix this property. Yeah, well, to back this up a little bit. I was in contract on two more when this all started falling apart. Wow. And my wife with her great intuition and kind of focus said you got to fix this one, or we're out completely right. So yeah, because in my core, I needed to have these Fannie Mae loans these 30 year fixed rate mortgages to prevent from, you know, inflation happening to me again. i That's why I focused so much gave up on my vacation and spent a lot of money to go fix it because it was in my kind of my soul that I had to get the family protected from inflation. And I think a lot of listeners out there right now need to be thinking the same thing. Because it didn't happen 10 years ago, when I thought it would it is actually happening already right now. Yeah, 17:00 that is amazing. And you know what, while we're on this subject, let's let's talk about thank you for sharing the history. And there's so many nuggets that I would highly encourage listeners to read, listen to what he said, because I'm pretty sure I counted at least six or seven limiting beliefs that you just like smashed. So if you Well, Gary, share with us what what you're doing now, what you're passionate about, and how you're helping other people, because I'm sure that your experience before is definitely a part of what you're doing now. 17:33 Yeah, definitely isn't, before I go there, one more thing, because as I look at the other side of the screen here, and to see the two of you, you know, if you are lucky enough to have a partner and, and, and, you know, you can, you're in a position where the two of you are doing real estate together, or you just at least talk about it, and you're and you share finances, and you all support each other. I've learned a tremendous amount from my wife. And I've also learned to not to be, you know, not to get caught up in the whole male female thing of today's you know, talking points. But when I say women's intuition, I mean, that's just what I mean. My wife's intuition is much, much better than mine. Her gut is just more about protection and smelling out, you know, knows scam artists, or con artists or whatever. When I was down, like three quarters the way through the completion, the only other time I visited the property before I bought it, I'm standing there and I'm backing up to take a picture of my property and happened to be standing in front of it is the realtor that I bought the property through and the builder, and they're just talking like to me to a guy, there's just two dudes talking that I was talking with. And I backed up, my wife made this comment, Hey, who are those two? And I said, oh, there, that's the builder and the realtor. And I and she said they look pretty chummy. What's their story? And I'm like, oh, rude, right? Like, I'm like, don't you support me my real estate? You know, all this. But you know what, those two guys were in cahoots. And the realtor was covering up all of these problems. And there's no way I sense that it didn't, nothing at all to me, right. And it's not the only time that's happened. Right. So that's just my advice to you. You know, you should listen when somebody you know, gives you a little alarm bell right, because some of this stuff's not like physical right? It's energy and yeah, people are tuned in differently that I think then and I know that it's a vulnerability for me that you know, somebody says something to me I check it a little bit I'm good. Okay, so what I do now 19:30 juicy stuff. Always. Don't leave out the contents. Thank you. 19:35 Yeah, yeah. So I was getting ready again on the real estate guys listening to their their podcasts. And I heard this guy Patrick Donahoe, say, you can purchase your properties without using your own cash as a down payment. And at that moment, like you know, when the students ready the teacher appears right so this was a few months after I was almost Ready to close on this first building? And I had been studying about how do I reduce my risk and get more efficient. So I'd read like no money down by Robert Allen and I had read a bunch of stuff from CPAs and asset protection attorneys. And I was caught up in this whole thing about I got a property Do I need an LLC first, right? And so I was trying to figure out how do I not have my money exposed to being stolen from me or loss in a lawsuit or something? Because I was gonna feel really stupid taking my money and protecting it from the markets into a real estate property and then losing it there. Right? Right. So So I was really focused. And when he said, Hey, you don't have to use your own money as this down payment. I was super excited. And so I went through a process. And now he's my business partner, because I got really, really interested in and saw what I do today, as a very good complement to rental properties for investors. But also just in general, even if you're not an investor, this is a fundamental way to make sure that your family moves in one direction, the positive direction with respect to finances throughout your life, right. And again, it enables people to have agency what I call agency, which is the ability to make their own decisions and have their financial life set up so they can do so. And so what this is called as infinite banking is the most common way of thinking about it. And it's essentially just storing your down payment money, your family's emergency dollars, money for upcoming trips, or college, but storing it instead of in savings and checking accounts, storing it in high cash value, whole life insurance. And the reason you would do that is because it's just as liquid and available. But it also brings life insurance, death benefit protection, and it grows at four to 5% with no tax instead of, you know, 0.1 and a checking account, right. And so I have another story about me and my wife that led me to really see the value here. So I start this off 2011 actually had it done in time to fund the downpayment on my four Plex. And so just kind of big picture, since we're doing this with audio, right. So we I got a normal conventional loan, because I love those 30 year fixed loans put me on the right side of inflation, right. And then for the down payment, instead of putting my money in as a down payment, I borrow that money from the insurance company today, I borrow from another bank, like use my policy as collateral, but instead of taking my own dollars and putting it into the property, I bought it from somebody else. And so none of my money was in the property. And I've repeated that over about 20 different properties over these years. So I met like property number three, we have three at this point, like three years into this. And I'm looking around at what I want to do in life, I've been to a bunch of interviews and stuff, I'm starting to think like I like this life insurance stuff. But I will admit, I still didn't understand the big picture of it. And, and so I'm at an anniversary dinner with my wife. And this is this is a good insight into this is like almost 20 years, but how naive I am sometimes I'm all excited about having talked to the guy that day or the day before. And he found me two more properties. And I verbally Ignace, you know, verbally committed to buy these properties, right? I'm excited to tell my wife. And so she's been in a nursing program for three years getting getting her RN degree, not paying attention to real estate. And so we're at this anniversary dinner and I say, Honey, I've got an amazing surprise for you. I just contractor for properties four and five. And she like drops her fork, and in this busy restaurant, and she's like you have got to stop. She's like, I don't I don't know, what is going on. Like I have not studied this stuff. What if you die, and we all these loans. I don't even know how to run this stuff. Right? And so it just wasn't the right place for her. I'm proud now to say she has 10 of her own properties. And I wouldn't say I do. But you know, she's on board, right? But at the time, I just not given her opportunity to get to them. But you know, here's the reason I'm tying this into the life insurance thing because I started thinking about the what if you die thing, right? And so I saw the problem was she was concerned about the amount of debt we had. Right? Once I you know, things kind of calmed down a little bit. And, you know, I said, you know, one interesting thing, if you remember about how we funded these, you remember like Saturday morning a few months ago, and we were we were getting poked in the arm, you know, by this nurse at like 8am so that we could get these life insurance policies. Well, we put the cash in there borrowed against that. And so just by nature of how we did this, it's going to grow much faster, the cash is going to grow faster, and it's going to be more protected. But there's also like $2 million of death benefit. It's exceeds what I have in loans right now. So if I do die like that, right, so you've got some options, you can pay off the properties have you know, huge cash flow from paid off properties, being like the bank, have them and just take the, you know, the policies. So that actually saw the color drained from her face like I saw, you know, the visual impact of that and that was a big, big thing for me as I you know, talk about talk to clients about this isn't just a really kind of A unique trick to making more money on your down payments it is. But it's a lot more than that for your family. 25:07 That is how, you know what it's back to what you just said, when the when the, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. And back in 20 1011, we got our licenses. But we didn't, we didn't know like, we would have had no way of understanding that we would start we would need to be in this place educationally and experience wise. Like what you said, what you just said, understanding that if something would have happened to us, what are our kids going to do, they're not going to understand how to handle a tenant and things like that. Now, of course, we do have things in place. But I think it's powerful for our listeners to hear. That's a big thing. Like, we want to go out here and do this for our family, whether it's investing in real estate to flipper or rent or whatever. But at the end of the day, we got to make sure that not only are our assets protected, but our legacy like our family's protected. So I'm I really love how you touched on that. And the infinite banking system is insane. Like, we were like we were we were there. We didn't even know where we were. We're so close, but yet so far away, because it just was not in our awareness. But now it's like, of course you better you better. 26:18 Yeah, you know, Patrick Donahoe, my mentor over at paradigm life, he says something that's, that's really awesome. He says that, you know, when you establish this foundation, and you put certainty into your life, it opens up the spectrum on all the uncertainty you can take on right. So and it just makes a ton of sense. Like, certainly, I mean, if you're, if you're a single young individual who's got a long runway and no mouths to feed, you can be crazy with you know, uncertainty, right? But as we build up these, these things that are depending on us, right, our family or whatever, right? Then our, you know, just the broader family, but definitely little kids and our spouses right, then, then we're building up this threshold, as you got to get over before you can start doing those kinds of things. Like be crazy, quit your job and go start a business. Right? Yes. And so if you can build that foundation underneath things, it gives you wings, you know, that literally gives you wings. I remember talking with a bunch of investors and clients in at the beginning of COVID in 2020. And it was a very polarizing month, March and April extremely polarizing, because we just didn't know what was going to happen. Right. But I'll tell you when I say polarized and what I mean by that is that a lot of people went to the I'm scared don't know what's going to happen side, right? Like, I'm not going to take any action because I just don't know what's coming around the corner. Right? This other group that was giddy is like little school kids there. We're just like guarantee you think 2000 nines here again, are we going to get properties at this super cheap price later, they're gonna be businesses we can buy. And I was just trying to figure out like, Why? Why are there both sides, like what drives you to these two sides? And the one thing that I found common, and I was on the giddy little school kids side, but it wasn't actually intentional. But the thing that drove us in these these different directions was how much cash did they have sitting around at that moment? Because if you were sitting there having just weigh heavily leveraged had you said, like, you know, I know this isn't enough reserves, but we'll just grow our way out of it with cash flow the next two or three months and just be conservative, right? If you were at that moment, we had no cash, you got huge commitments and and then the mayor in every city, you own properties and stood up and said, We know you're struggling, you don't have to pay rent for a while. Right? At that moment. You either got scared to death? Or you said, Wow, I'm really in my case. Well, I'm really glad that $300,000 investment I was going to make didn't, you know, fell through? Because the bank said no. And now I got 300k sitting around. So if, if none of my tenants pay, I got a long time to write this out. Right. Yeah. That just goes back to that. Like I was looking for opportunity there. Because I had the foundation built underneath it. And you know, it was somewhat accidental that time for me, but it won't be again. I I met some guy the other day, and he said, Yeah, my minimum is 700,000 in cash. I'm like, wow, that's a new threshold. But I get it because of having lived through 2020 29:16 Wow, you how powerful Yes, man. Good stuff. Let me go ahead. Oh, that just 29:24 like I said earlier with the, the beginning piece of just your story and how you, you know, acquire your first properties. And your story has so many clues in it that you leave behind for someone else to follow you which I really appreciate that. Like I see myself wanting to really dive deeper into the educational piece in this on the information on the infinite banking side. So how would someone really start educating themselves on that piece? Or if it 29:56 had been? Yes, so there's some great books out there. If they sent me an email and I can send them a copy of Patrick Donahoe his book. It's called heads I win tails you lose audio and ebook copy of it. The guy who started the process started really kind of made it popularized yeah theorized excuse me, Nelson Nash, he wrote a book called becoming your own banker. It's a little bit dated now, like the numbers entered are a little hard to understand. But, you know, if you can, I think make the parallels to today's world, Patrick's gets a little more broad, he has you take a you know, relook at like your 401k and some other you know, aspects like that. And there's a bunch of good friend of mine and mentor, Kim Butler has written a bunch of books, she calls them all, they kind of have this trend of like real estate lies and retirement lies, bust busting the sorry, bust in the real estate lies, busting the retirement lies, Bustan, you know, the other financial kind of things. And, and her books are really good as well. But I think starting starting, I would go with Patrick Donahoe his book, and I'll send you a copy of that. And you just go to my name. So Gary at Gary And I'll gladly send it out to you. And I'll get my phone number as well. It's 860-389-7620. And so you can text that or you know, just give me a call. 31:15 I love it. Thank you. Thank you so much. See, he hits you with the here's some knowledge, Oh, yeah. And you can you can actually call me or reach out to me, and I love and I love the energy behind that. I know that the more people you help, and your success will only grow and your impact will only continue to grow. So thank you so much for sharing your story, giving us your background. And you know what you're doing now, because we can't just do one thing forever like this. I was just talking to Leon, when he was going through the Jordan in our in our room looking at technology. And I was like, Man, that's obsolete. But it's like that in real estate, like you learn one thing, and all of a sudden, six months, six days, six weeks later, it's like, oh, we don't do that anymore. We do this. So I love that what you mentioned with the Infinite Banking strategy, I think that's amazing. 32:03 One other thing on that, speaking of like technology and getting obsolete, like we just don't really know what's coming around the corner, right? Like, that was the big thing. And 2020 Yeah, and so having options, super important, right? So having that certainty in your life that opens up to whatever uncertainty comes or frees you up to handle whatever comes. So like if you know, if you're releasing that technology, that might have been a better idea back then, right? Because you don't know if it's gonna be obsolete tomorrow. But when it comes, what I'm paralleling here is that most people will tell you to be more certain to be more confident, they would rather have a paid off house, a lot of people would say that right. But I don't think that I mean, it brings certainty with respect to you don't have a mortgage payment. But it does not bring certainty to the fact of Do you have liquidity when you need it, when that thing comes around the corner, none of us predicted COVID, the guy who had a million dollars of paid off real estate was not in as good a position as the guy who had 900,000 All alone on that, and 900,000 sitting in some liquid source 100%. So you just kind of you know, haven't haven't equity, awesome. But if you can't get your fingers on it when you need it, it's wasted. 33:14 Yeah, because banks aren't lending when when he 33:18 goes back to a little bit of problems that we've had, you know, we don't really concern ourselves to a slow, drippy leaky faucet. You know, that's kind of like that, that compares to okay, I've got a little bit of a mortgage payment to pay. So I'm not really going to worry about it. But think, think about it, if you didn't have a mortgage payment to pay, where are you putting your money? Where it was gotta go somewhere. And I think a lot of people don't think about that. Okay, well, I can just put that in the bank. But right now, banks are charging you money to put money in your bank. Just the other day. I'm like, why am I getting hit with this? 1012 10 for $10? Bill, that's $40 Bill, just random count analysis fees? I'm like, no. It really is. I know that you need to have some cash and reserves and all that. But, man, is it my time? I mean, can you also explain to the listeners how long ago how long Infinite Banking has been around? It may or may have been titled something else. But it's been around for a long time? 34:22 Well, the whole so here's the here's the not so complex business model for whole life insurance that started in the 1700s. In America. I mean, every company I work with started in the mid 1800s. And the process is collect money protected from loss. So it's not in the markets. It's not, you know, out in some public place where everybody can see it. And it can't be, well, in most cases, it can't be tied to like lawsuits and things. So it's just my tected in many ways, so they collect the money, they protect it, and then they grow it on a guaranteed scale. And then they add dividends or what's called you know, the company profits to it right, because we're owners of a mutual insurance company, right and so they're collecting it and letting that pile grow of collected money. And then every year, they're also adding to it. And so there's this pile of money growing and whole life insurance, which makes it a bank. Right. And in 1936, I want to say, they, the insurance companies said, you know, basically, everyone was a farmer back then. And so the farmers would, you know, get their crops back and they'd be flushed with money. And the only safe place to put money was not in banks back then. But it was in life insurance policies, because they didn't, you know, get a bank run on them all the time. So they would, the farmers would store their money and life insurance, and then maybe at the next spring, but a couple years later, they need the money, because they were short to go. And so they have to cash in their policy to get it right. And so they were just always starting policies and cashing them in. Well, life insurance companies need about 10 to 12 years to break even on life insurance policies. So it was expensive. And they finally said, Okay, listen, stop cashing it in, we'll give you access to our money. And then you pay us back when you're able to do so. Right. And so that's what the loan process came from. So it's kind of a long answer. But it's like 8590 years that you have access to cash value and policies. And in the recent 20 years, insurance companies have allowed us to get more flexible on how we contribute. So you can kind of push money into what people call like the cash portion of it. So the liquidity is there, you know, 80 85% of the money's available, the market 36:22 is so good. And you know, for those out there that are like insurance companies, you know, maybe they're used to somebody coming and knocking at their door and selling somebody to knock policy, you really got to educate yourself. If you go downtown and look at the tallest building downtown, I promise you, it's got to be insurance related. And it's one of the biggest, wealthiest industries. We're not talking about millions, we're talking about trillions, trillions, a trillion dollar industry, educate insurance, I'm here to 36:54 say, it's either banks or insurance companies. And by their very nature, they need to have liquidity because their business is answering the phone and paying death benefits. So they got a lot of liquidity sitting around. So go right back to what happened in 2020. Insurance companies went out and bought things. There was there was no they had the liquidity to do that. Yep. 37:12 As a matter of fact, one of them actually bought somebody buy a real estate company or so. So yeah, somebody bought a real estate company. That was an issue. The insurance company bought a real estate company. We're like, ah, that's obvious. Definitely a lot of moving and shaking Well, yeah, thank you, man for giving, giving us all of these of all this amazing information and content. And I really hope that our listeners have taken it in taking notes. Listen to this again. And again, sometimes when I listen to something, it's just, you know, I'll catch a couple of things. But when you go back you like, oh, it starts to click. So I really hope that they hear that, um, what I can let you go, I got to ask you one question. And this is something I'm keeping a tally with, with everyone that we speak with, what is one major limiting belief that you overcame, and or still overcome in real estate, 38:04 and real estate, so I would go to the, you want to pay off your real estate, that that was something that I felt like I had to plow a large downpayment and get the thing paid off, because it would, quote, make me safer. And that might be true. If we were in a real money society, the fact that the entire world is running on fiat money, meaning that the that we can just print it, right, you cannot remain safe, by paying off properties and having no liquidity to be able to, you know, to pivot. That's my biggest limiting belief. 38:39 That is incredible. Thank you for sharing that. We'll add that to the list. And hopefully, if you're listening, and that was yours, it's been tomorrow. Well, awesome man that you've given, if you don't mind, sharing your email address and phone number, again, for those that want to reach out to you definitely access to the books, but also to connect with you. And you know, maybe there's some synergy, and maybe they can relate. And you know, they want some help getting started on their journey using Infinite Banking, 39:07 please, absolutely. And also want to point out that I have a couple of people on my team, both are doing exactly what I'm doing. And in real estate, and they're a little newer to the journey, one of them's got three or four properties, one's just getting his first so don't feel like you're going to talk to some guy who's not in your neck of the path, right? I'm not on the same part of the path. Glad to connect you with my guys who are doing the same thing you're doing right now. So Gary at Gary, just GA ry at Gary And my phone number is 860-389-7620. And absolutely reach out. I'll get you the book and glad to meet with you. 39:53 Awesome, awesome. Thank you. Thank you, Gary, for being on this podcast with us again. And guys. Thank you for listening to us. Our podcasts here at my first deal And we would love to, for you guys to like and share this. And Gary has one more comment. 40:09 I forgot to plug my podcast. So I run a podcast called Gary's Gulch Gu LCH. Like a trench, right. And so that goes back to iron Rand, who was someone who came over and was was talking about this, the problems, the risks of socialism that she grew up in, and Russia back in the 1940s, and 50s. And so she was a prominent figure over here in the 80s. And so she wrote things like The Fountainhead, but she also wrote a book called Atlas Shrugged. And Atlas Shrugged is about America going socialism and people not have been able to run their own businesses. And there's a group of people who go off to this place called Gary's Galt, and you can either watch a three part movie on Amazon Prime, where you can read the 1000 page book, or you can listen to the first podcast first episodes of my podcast and I'll kind of dig into why it's called that but I'd be honored if anybody can listen. 41:04 Thank you, man. Shout out to Gary's ghost. There we go. There's the podcast for you. 41:11 Oh, history. And you know, there's a lot of things in history that have been forgotten about, yes, not publicized. Thank you, for those who you know, written the books, 1000 page book, they asked us a lot of pages, but just think how much value you get out of reading that book, how much better person you can become? 41:27 Yes. And it's important. Also, when you get into things like that, and understanding different cultures and different backgrounds. Everything may not be applicable to everyone, you just simply extract what's beneficial for you. And then you move forward with that. So anything we talked about on this podcast, we are open in such a way that we want people to learn from it. You don't have to you don't have to go and adopt something 100% But we want you to learn something different for what you know. And then exercise moving forward with your best judgment or whatever you're led to believe feel think do so I wanted to make sure I put that out there. 42:03 Awesome. Awesome. All right. Perfect. Perfect. Well, thank you guys for joining. See you soon.