0:00 Welcome to the terminal value podcast. I have Daniel Martinez with me today from hive mind CRM that's hive mind crm.io. And we're gonna be talking about using automation to scale your business. And Daniel actually has a little bit of a unique twist on this because he's in the real estate business. And historically, real estate has not been the most, I guess, I would say technology forward business of businesses. You know, I know that despite the prevalence of digital signing, you know, a great number of the loan documents I've signed had still been in paper up until disturbingly recently, actually, even when like visual signatures are required, there's still a paper copy required. And so what Damien's gonna be doing is talking with us about about automating your business in general, but also about how he's how he's taken those ideas and taking them into the real estate space. Because the real estate space, I think, is one of those places that is really poised for some of these technology weeks forward. Anyway, Daniel, introduce yourself, don't let me go on too long. 1:02 So my name is Martinez Wynn, CEO of hive mind, I've started this business, February 2021. So we're about 18 months old, depending on when you listen to this might be a little bit longer. Yeah, we've kind of like, we started out of necessity, because there was there wasn't that many good things options out there. And kind of created some of that works for us. And it works for other people as well. So we're monetizing it in our own way and providing value in that way. 1:23 Got it? Got it? Well, okay, so talk through some of the things that you've seen as far as benefits of automation, I think, you know, some are going to be obvious, and we're going to be less obvious. And then what are some of the things you've seen that are very real estate specific automation wise, I mean, because of course, with a lot of CRMs, the big automation benefit usually is things like you can have contact activity tracking. So like for example, if you go to another CRM, let's take HubSpot, for instance. Okay, well, so if you open up a contact in HubSpot, I can see Alright, well, you know, what company? Are they associated with? Are there any deals in the pipeline associated with that contact? What's your email string? What's your call string? Do you have any note backgrounds? Do you have any ecommerce transaction through tag those contacts, you know, in me, because that's what a CRM is the customer relationship management tools, the idea is you can pull up one contact record. And you can see your whole history of interactions with a person so that you don't have to remember everything. Of course, it goes deeper than that. So take us down the rabbit hole. 2:22 So for anybody who doesn't know, the customer relations management tool is it's where you're generating leads. So every no matter what business you're in, you should be generating leads to convert those to sales, which are hoping to get reviews and then turn around use that to get more sales. So that's like the lifecycle of a customer no matter what business you're in. So what's a customer in real estate? Well, a customer is somebody that owns a property, and then a customer, somebody might sell your property to or in that fashion. And some fashion like that may be more mortgage lender lists, your buyer lists your Seller List, those are all customers in your real estate business. So hivemind is a marketing system to market to all those using automation and marketing techniques. And one thing is that there's a lot of systems out there, but they might not be all in one, you might be using an email provider system, you might use a different dialer system, you might use a different SMS platform system, you might use a different website, system and form system. So all these different systems out there that are all over the place, had mine kind of brings it all in one. So it comes with SMS capability, dialer, phone call, phone call tracking websites, forms, if you're doing any type of marketing in the real estate business or any business like that, in general, you can automate a lot of that set. Oh, that's, 3:32 that's interesting, although I'm gonna have to poke at you a little bit, because I've found that most solutions that try to claim to be all in ones, either, you know, how usually have one to two thing that they do really well, a couple more things that they do pretty average. And the rest are usually done pretty poorly Kajabi comes to mind. It is an amazing course building tool, the landing page, and CRM and all that is probably see minus being being somewhat generous. In a few cases, you may be the exception, but at least that's one of the things that I've observed. 4:06 And you're 100%, right, in most cases, but this is like one of those things where like, there's, we always try and create something that works. And then we always building upon it to make it better. So we may have those capabilities. But like, there's some bugs here and there. And like I said, out there not huge, like enormous things that affect your business on a day to day. But as a normal thing, like one thing we really, really do well, which I'm gonna hit on is texting. A lot of our clients text, a lot of potential sellers to get contracts. So we use that really, really well to get deals. And yes, you might might be in things that are subpar. But they work really well too as well. It's it's a well rounded product, but you don't have to learn how to use everything that things can do before you get value from it. So if you need that one thing, learn how to do that one thing and just focus on that. 4:56 Gotcha. Gotcha. Well, and I think that's actually you know, especially if you're talking But something that is real estate specific, I think, you know, having a robust SMS texting tool will be really important it for a couple of reasons a, like you said, because your response rates tend to be a lot higher. And a lot of times when you're talking where you're trying to either contact sellers or contact buyers or stuff like that, usually you don't have time for an email cycle, which is typically one business day. And then number two is that email open rates are continuing to go down your email marketing is, you know, is still effective, but it is not a fact not as effective as it used to be. And it is way, way, way harder to get conversions. 5:32 And it's just one of those things where like, we I Use Email Marketing right now I have I send out 170,000 emails a month, give or take, I'm probably set up probably over 200,000. I'm not taking 200,000 emails, I just have an email cycle that rotates over and over again and automation, and it's doing what it does. And it cost me 200 bucks a month to send out that many emails. And I don't have to worry about typing out individual messages. 5:55 I just had a personal curiosity, when you send out all these messages, are you sending them out to opt ins? Are you sending them out a solo ads? Or are you just sending them out cold, 6:04 most of them are cold, they've usually touched us in some form or fashion. We have a lot of marketing out there in general. And then we have different options that people come in through different ways. So what are the ways we optimize like our faith, we have a Facebook group to come to the Facebook comments here, I'm on Facebook, we ask you for your name and email. Well, Facebook doesn't Click that if you've set them into the group, it just goes in limbo, we actually connected our CRM to it, we're now we're actually collecting that name, email, phone number, and then they get added to our email list. So anybody group that gives us their email and phone number, they get put into a sequence where now we're texting and emailing them, and now they're in our system. 6:36 Okay, excellent. Excellent. Well, that's awesome. That's great. Let's kind of go, you know, in the CRM path, let's pivot a little bit and sort of go down to the automation path, you know, and so, of course, you know, you know, most CRM type of systems will usually build themselves on being able to automate, you know, to automate your business, what does that really mean? And, you know, kind of one of the practical ramifications for a lot of companies because like, I know that one of the things that I've experienced is that in some cases, not all, but in some cases, when I try to automate something, I will automate half of it. And then I will create an enormous mess to clean up. That takes far longer than the amount of time that I saved trying to automate it in the first place. Now, one could argue that's the iterative failure process you go through to get to a successful solution. But I would imagine that a number of people have had that exact same experience. 7:25 So it's one of those things where like, everybody's trying to automate, I mean, every every business out there is trying to automate everything because people fail systems don't in most cases, so there's a solution out there that can be systematized and done by a computer program, they're usually going to do that before they hire people. So our thing is permission before delegation, because if you delegate too soon, you might even have delegated that processes, we can automate it. Yeah, so that's a whole circle. But it's one of those things where like, it's gonna be different for different people. So let's say you send out you have a big client list of 10,000 people you actually physically call 10,000. People, you're going to be there for if the dialer a good $3 $3 system, you're gonna be there for at least a month, easily. Yeah. But if 8:08 that's gonna say, if you have a hyper dialer, like phone burner, maybe a little less, you know, but here, it's still gonna be a long time. 8:13 It's gonna be a long time. So let's say you can text them with our system, you can text them in two days. Yeah. 10,000 people two days, then it comes down to the fact of like, how long does it take you to read all these messages? Well, you don't have to read them all. You still read the ones that say yes or no, I want to I have a property, I want to sell her no matter what your business is, hey, whatever that keyword is, yes, I need an agent. Yes, I need an attorney. Yeah, whatever that is, boom, filling those keywords. And now you're only responding to the people that actually said yes, raise their hand and everything else kind of falls to the side, because you actually want to talk to those people. 8:46 Yeah, so because the thing that I hear you saying, which I think is actually really important, bordering on profound, because we're talking about automation, but what you're really using automation to do is to narrow down the amount of people who you actually touch to the ones that are the highest probability of closure, because you are where you have your best probability of closure, because the chance that you're going to close somebody on any kind of material sale, you know, now you can get somebody to buy a $10 ebook, probably based on a landing page, you're not going to get somebody to list a house based on a landing page, you're a human being is going to have to talk to them. But what I'm hearing is that what automation can really help you do is make it so that instead of having to go through, say 100 calls or 200 calls to get to a listing, you can get your closing rate down to say like one four or one three, basically, the idea is to get it so that when you are actually talking to somebody they have a very, very, very high close rate. 9:41 That's it, and it's just filtering down because in real estate in all businesses, it's a numbers game. So if you talk to 1000 people and you get 10 contracts, if you can shortcut that and text 10,000 people and get 10 contracts in a shorter amount of time, you're more efficient. 9:59 Yeah, well, you know, Because even if you text 10,000 people and get five contracts, you know, you're still more efficient. Yeah, all that means is you need to figure out how to get a bigger list in order to be able to be able to pull more contracts. 10:12 The list is easy part, that's the easy part because you knew 10:16 exactly whether it's a good list or not, that's a different story. 10:20 That's different compensation, entirely different conversation. 10:24 But that's the whole idea is that you can be more efficient, you can operate more efficiently. And the other thing is that people like responding to different forms of marketing, so it takes 12 contacts to even reach that person with automation comes in is no lead left behind any lead you contact. That's the reply back, you can put an automation to follow up every 30 days. Now, what that does is, you're following up following follow up, it's not a matter of if they want to sell to when so if you're that person that contacts them when they want to sell, you're gonna get that deal every time. 10:55 I'm gonna get a little macro economist, Sonya? Sure. I think the numbers that I saw, they're probably obsolete. But I think the numbers that I saw most recently were that I think the average person moves every year sells their house every seven years. It might be faster. But yeah, I think it's held pretty constant. It's about every seven years. Okay, well, so let's just do the math. What, seven times 12? Okay, seven times 12 is going to be let's see, um, that's 84. Yeah. I was like, Okay, I'm doing math in my head here. I'm gonna be, you know, running on the, you know, sailing against the wind here. But okay, so 84. That means that all right, well, basically, if somebody doesn't go now, then essentially what you do is you just start the clock, and it's going to be at four contacts, before, you know, basically your ad for automated messages until they're statistically most likely to sell, you're ready to sell some will be less maybe like 20 3040, some maybe more, maybe, like 100 150, or something like that, you know, but if it's once every seven years basically say, all right, when said, you know, if I get a knock now, put them on the list, and just count to 84. And that is when you are yo went about your that's gonna be median closure point. 11:58 And then you can even go down, that's 100% True. If you're building a bulk list, then you can target people that are in taxes, they might be in pre foreclosure, they might be going through a divorce. Right? If you had done then your close rate goes up. It expedites 100%. Yeah, 12:11 exactly. Well, it's you know, and then, of course, things you can do, too, is, you know, at least the way that a lot of good automation systems are set up. Now, a lot of these good automation systems tend to be expensive, but the way the good automation systems are set up, is you'll have a normal drip, right? And then at the point when somebody clicks or replies or shows some kind of engagement, then they have somebody calling them right away. 12:31 percent. That's it. It's a system that you can reach out to lots of people, sort through lots of people and follow up with lots of people very easily versus doing paper, paper and spreadsheets and those. 12:42 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Oh, outstanding. All right. Well, let's see. So we've talked about about automating a front end in terms of say, you know, lead capture, lead nurture, getting toward conversion, you know, can you talk to us a little bit about automating the backend some more, which is, you know, more of your operations, finance, etc. You know, now, typically, that's not the purview of CRM, typically, that's more supply chain management, or ERPs. You know, but from what you've seen, what are some of the ways that you can use technology to link all these pieces together. 13:14 So every base of every business is your SOPs and process. And once you have SOPs and processes down, you typically have a business and something you can package up and sell. So whatever that looks like in your business, for us in real estate, it's maybe running comps, its underwriting is sending its title of the contract, it may be sending to a cash buyer for them to purchase or sending it to a lender as a referral. Whatever that process looks like, based on whatever type of lead it is, you can set up automation on the back end to fulfill whether it's assigning tasks to your team members or sending it sending that lead to another partner that's going to handle that part of the transaction. You can automate that. 13:50 Now do you currently run that through hive? Or do you use something like Zapier to connect your tools? Well, that's 13:57 the thing about this, this is all in one. So texting, emailing phone systems all in one so I can move my contacts and leads down the path and then notify my team using the same way using the same same methods. So we use a lot of texting and emailing notifications based on leads hit certain stages, they get a lead, hey, lead hitting the lead hit your stage, this is now your lead to handle from this point. 14:20 Gotcha. Okay, that makes sense. You know, because that's one of those things. I'm going to reverse myself a little bit from before but it's like you know, if you have an audit at an all in one where the parts that are really good are the parts you need to be really good and the parts that are good enough are things where you only need good enough, this is a place where it all the one can really save you quite a bit of money because it's like you know, by the time you add up, what you're gonna be looking at for say a decent CRM for a decent landing page builder or for an auto responder for a you know, for text system and then you're safer task management system. Even if some of those are free, then you have to link them all together. With Zapier. It's going to add up to be quite a bit 14:56 100% And like that we integrate with Zapier to do that. app capabilities, you can manage all that through the app. And anything that doesn't link to or one thing about businesses is like, I have this one thing. I love Trello. And I'm never leaving Trello ever again. Well, you can use this with Trello. Who cares? People 15:14 are stupid, I happen to love Trello. Also, because it is a stupidly simple task management platform, it does one thing exceptionally well, it doesn't do anything else. One thing really well. 15:25 So if you're like, a Trello person, like I love Trello, I'm never leaving Trello for simplicity, you can integrate hive mind with Trello, where you're still doing that Trello stuff over there. But it's one of those things where it connects you they speak to each other, which is the hard part with having multiple systems is that it's really hard to have them speak to each other. And it's hard, it's really hard to hard. It's even harder to track them when they speak to each other. 15:47 Yes, correct. Well, and so and yeah, I'm in a little unique situation, because you know, of course, you know, right now I'm in the entrepreneurial space. But for 20 years before that I was in the corporate space and finance and it in the tech industry. And the place for almost every set of enterprise systems falls down is when the systems have to talk to each other. Because even if you get that dialed in perfectly, at some point, you're going to have a mandatory upgrade on one or the other those systems, and there's usually going to be something that doesn't quite work. And so then try to get it re dialed in usually ends up being more effort, time or money than the company's willing to spend. So you end up having another disconnect, which takes things offline people email spreadsheets. You know, that's one of the things that happened at Intel all the time, we sunk all this money into data systems. And then there'd be something that didn't quite work the way people wanted it. And so that email spreadsheets, you know, and then what we did was, you know, I was also on a team, we were like, Okay, we need to stop all this, we need to try to put it all in the system. And we tried to make a system make a system that did everything. And it was unbelievably complicated. 16:53 That's just the nature of the nature of the beast. And it's really hard to like, fulfill that for different niches. Yeah, I think for like I said, if you're doing basic stuff, and you kind of, if you're like I said, I have like me, I call them Neanderthals, I told him this to his face. But how many of our clients are like, I don't care what else the system does, I just want to use it for texting. I'm like, Okay, here's how I use it for texting. He's found great results, just using it for texting. That's all he does afford. What no annoying, I can do other things. Sometimes, like, well, this hurt people, like, I wanted to do this, this, this and this are like, Well, can you handle and understand the capabilities of what you're trying to build? If not, don't even go down that path? 17:34 Yes. Well, and you know, because this is one of the things that I experienced that you're doing going through, you're talking with integration consultants, and doing vendor demonstrations, you know, so like, you know, we're trying to put together an enterprise resource planning system, ERP, talk to SAP go, Okay, well, we needed to do blah, blah, blah, of course it does that. Okay, we needed to do XYZ, of course, it does that. Now, what they don't say is, does it do that with no customization? Or does it do that? Or does that is that gonna require 500 to 700 hours of customization plus 250 hours a year of manual maintenance by somebody on the IT part, that part never comes up? 18:11 I'm really glad you mentioned that too. Because all a lot of CRMs, they'll hit you with that. But like, yeah, it could do it. But it might cost you a grand or two, or three grand, or maintenance of two grand a year or something. 18:22 I was gonna say just a funny tangent on the consumer end, that's a fortune on the enterprise. And that's nothing. I just, I just always think it's funny how, when you're talking enterprise, the numbers are ridiculously huge, and nobody bats an eyelash. Whereas on the consumer side, every $9.99 people sweat bullets over anyway, Keynesian tilbyr. But 18:41 it comes down to like, if you're a small business, you can't afford to pay the micro changes to whatever you need. You just need to use something that works that's gonna handle majority of your needs, and kind of work within that parameter. And so you can afford something better. Yeah. Yes. 18:56 Well, and I think there's an enterprise paradigm that I think kind of small midsize businesses can potentially implement. Because, you know, I've had a number of people who would talk to me and it's okay, you know, these data systems, they're so complicated, they're so expensive. How do you fix it? How do you get this thing? So it works? Right? And my answer was always the San Mateo. Okay, well, what you do is, you have to say, All right, you know, first of all, start out with k of the best in practice, you know, business models, you know, kind of operational models, you know, which one do we want to do? Okay, well, so then, alright, figured out what that best in class model is going to be. And then figure out the system that gets the closest to that without any customization and then change your processes to that nobody wants to do that they want to do is they say I want to build a system around exactly the way that I do things right now, which is almost always overly complicated, almost always involves way too many steps. And, you know, because what it ultimately comes down to his people just really, really don't like to change, but there's a mate, you're going to have to simplify otherwise it will fall apart in a giant stinking mess. 19:58 So one of the things that I'm really good You hit that too. But like, if you're stuck in your ways, there's usually a better option. But when you once you understand the better option and how it works, you can really amplify your results. Yeah. So simple notes, we've had 13 clients hit six figure months using our product, just falling within the parameters of what we do. So it works. But you seem to work if you now understand how it works. 20:20 Yeah, yeah, well, and let's kind of think about that I'm like, you know, six figure months, you know, so okay, you know, if you expand that at times 12, that's a seven figure year that is statistically a very small minority of all businesses, that's considered a highly successful business. But you know, what that's really doing is it's taking, essentially one profitable sales process and scaling. 20:39 That's it. That's it. So I tell people all the time with our system, don't think about, hey, I need to automate, automate, automate, you only need to automate it once and it works, the ones the way you want it to work, and then just let it go. Because it's one thing. If you automate it, just let it go. Because you might have to tweak it later on, or add an add on to it. But if it works through, you want it to work. Just do it once to let it 21:01 go. Got it. Outstanding. All right, well, hey, Dan, this has been a wonderful conversation, give us one or two, follow on thoughts. And then make sure to let people know where they can go to learn more, you know, of course, give a website again, and let people know what socials they can find the art. 21:16 Sure. So my whole thing is automating free delegate, because you don't have to delegate at all. And create content around your niche because you build your information on the content you produce. And then where you can find me have my Instagram On Facebook, we have a private Facebook group, you can join it, a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of people that are in real estate space, providing knowledge information to doing deals with each other. If you're interested in real estate, Texas, you actually Texas I use automation, like what does automation look like? Well, you can actually text me 210-972-1842 just execute word course. Or hive doesn't matter each one. That's actually my customer service numbers. Do you have any questions about him? And he actually text that number and someone who actually respond to you? And that's how I manage on my clients. So the number again is 210-972-1842. That's it. 22:01 Okay, outstanding. All right. Well, hey, Daniel, I really, really appreciate your time today. 22:06 No problem, man. It was good conversation more than usual. 22:12 Well, I'll take that as a compliment. Thank you for listening to the terminal value podcast. So if you liked this episode, please share it on your favorite social media and tagged me and then tell me what you did or didn't like about this episode, so that I will know what to create for you. And in addition, I would like to share with you the most incredible free gift ever. What I am going to do is I am going to give you a three day four Night vacation at one of 30 destinations across the United States completely free with no obligation at all no timeshare pitch nothing. In addition to that, what I am going to do is I am going to do a complimentary savings assessment for your business so that you will understand whether it makes sense for us to work together so that I can help to save you money. The value of this offer is literally between 1000s and millions of dollars depending on your business. 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