0:00 Hey, welcome to today's episode as Daniel Martinez, your host of the hybrid this podcast I have a special guest today are coming out of LA, but he's originally from Sweden. We have the price whisperer chauffeurs. Right? 0:15 That's right, you did a really good job and of mentioning my name. And thank you so much for having me on the show. 0:24 So how, firstly, I want to ask is, when did you come to the US? And how long have you been in Sweden? Is that how only 0:34 Yeah, I grew up in in Sweden, and left it when I was roughly 30 years old, to establish a company in Zurich, in Switzerland. And I ran that for several years until I eventually was bought over by my main competitor that was a Japanese company. And and I ran their European subsidiary out of London for several years before I eventually came here to the US and established a division of a fairly large company and built that up and so forth. And then I had another for CEO position. So after that, 1:15 that's amazing. One of the big reasons one of the big reasons why I wanted to have you on the podcast, yes, I want to talk about your main niche. But I always like talking to like different people around the world, because you get different insights, businesses ran almost differently in different countries in Europe especially. Well, I'm really curious, and I'm sure my listeners are curious, too. So like, what is like, I know, like, in Germany, they have like, really, like strict work hours. And the there's actually people on workers on the board of directors that operate the company, hand in hand with board of directors. So like, what is some key takeaways that we get from European business for the separate us business? 1:59 Well, in the way, I mean, the it's the same in Sweden, and I believe maybe in other countries as well, in Europe, that, that you do have, the trade unions are much stronger than they are here. And they do have representation on the board. Because at the end of the day, you know, the the the work is in a company on the management of the company, and the and the, the owners of the company, all have, they're all in the same boat, right? They all really want the same thing, which is a successful company, because that will benefit everybody, you know. And, and the another Another key difference is that for a while here, up till about two years ago, I had a I was involved in a joint venture company back in my native Sweden I, I was got involved because I got sort of nostalgic, but and I went over there very frequently and did presentations. And one of the big differences is that when you present for management team over there, it's almost a 5050 gender split, right? Oh, wow. Whereas, whereas here in the US, you know, you're lucky if you have one female or maybe two female out of 10 in a management team, you know, which is really sad. Because it's been actually proven statistically proven, that companies with a, with a gender balanced board and management team do much better than, than those that are male dominated. 3:52 Yeah, I'll test this and I think for all the males aboard with like, sometimes we get we get in our own way. And the females, they really help organize us. So if you hire more, more C suite levels, like those women's it'll help organize you and we'll have different ways on that side too, as well. Yeah. 4:11 Yeah, absolutely. And I also had a chance I set up several joint ventures in in, in the Far East, two of them in Japan, two in Korea, and one in Taiwan. So I also got a sort of an insight into how companies work there. And and very, obviously very different than here in the US. But for good and bad. You know? One of the things that I saw a little bit of in Japan was the it was often or at least sometimes more important than then appear to be really busy than actually doing something productive. Yeah. And, and, and but having said that one on 111 thing that really surprised me here when I moved to the, to the US and had this experience from several, you know, from from from Europe and, and Japan at that time was how I found companies here very free and driven, you know, people are people they don't. And I'm generalizing, obviously, you know, 5:34 I, so I like to hear the reasoning why. So they're fear driven. So they, they force production versus 5:42 Well, not that so much. But that people are, instead of instead of, they feel that they can't criticize the company, they can't criticize the decisions of their bosses. And, and, and then make decisions that are good for them personally, but maybe not good for the company. Now, again, this happens everywhere. Right? You know, it's just that I thought I saw it more here than what I've seen elsewhere, you know? Yeah. And, and, you know, here, it's easy to fire somebody, it's not so easy in Europe or in Japan. 6:24 I like, even like, right there. I mean, I hope people take notes, hire more women, make sure your goals are aligned with your employees, because they're in the same boat as you and they want you to succeed. And most cases that are out there, like make you fail or help you fail. So I think it's, it's huge. I think it's like laying that upfront on the on the on when you're hiring as well as like, hey, I want you to win just as much as you want to win as well. So it's a win win scenario. I'd take that I'll take that. I'll take those those those bits I like, so I like hearing new perspectives that I've never heard before that are not even they're not even heard out here. Just because this business is like, the only way to do business like No, it's not. It's really not. It's really not. So 30 years old, you left Sweden. I'm 30 years old right now. I can resonate really well with that. I think it's really cool, man. So how are you better than the US versus you're 30 years old? 7:27 No, no, I, this was I mean, I'm gonna age myself here, because that was in the end of 1985. I think it was. And, and, and I was, I was tasked by my former boss and an investor to set up this company. And he, he funded it. But I've never started the company before. I've never been a CEO before. I've never developed an international business before as we did. And it was done in in Switzerland. And when I didn't know the language, I didn't know German, you know, so, you. There was a, I mean, I was scared out of my wits, you know, but I was also I was also excited in a similar fashion, you know, because it's, it was really, really, it was really exciting. And, you know, I think I took that four years, four and a half years, I was involved in it. And I think I took it up to seven, 8 million, something like that. So it was very small, but still, you know, and, and, and when I came to move up to London to run that subsidiary over a Japanese company, that was also a very, very interesting because there was a lot, I was actually known as the hardest worker in the company, at least that's what they told me. And that was in again, starting in 1990. When, you know, when, when the Japanese were really sort of harsh, I'd say they were admired because of their work ethics and stuff like that. But it really had to do with that if they had you know, if they had 10 different tasks or 25 different different tasks on their to do list for a day, you know, they did all 25 I did the five ones that actually matters. 9:44 So something I really want to hit on because I think OS is like like full entrepreneurs. They feel like they have to be the leader. They have to be the they have to be the instructor. But one thing I really keyed in is that you are you're never the CEO, you're always subsidiary does? 10:03 Well, that's not true. I mean, I was CEO of a subsidiary. 10:09 Yeah, but But what I'm saying is like, I'm not I'm not trying to discourage you at all whatsoever. I'm just saying that somebody else brought you in on their vision. And it seems like you're like the integrator, which person actually gotten stuff done, in my opinion. So the visionary, and there's a book called traction, they talked about this a lot as a visionary and integrator and me personally, I'm an integrator, myself. So I really resonate with that with that statement a lot because like, we I'm not, I'm just from the two seconds, where we, we make we make whatever the visionaries goals and whatever they're trying to accomplish, we actually are the backend that actually actually produces the results. 10:50 I think it was a shared vision, you know. And it was a shared shared vision that developed over time, you know, so and before I got involved, so the the, it and it ended, I mean, in the UK, I quadrupled sales over six, over four years, three years, actually. 11:15 That's crazy. So you have your skill, which is I really want to talk about this your skill. So what your skill is finding a price point, and you can explain it better, you're putting a price point that makes you it increases your sales revenue. 11:27 Yeah, for the for the audience here. If you listen to this, and not watching the video, I'm called the price whisperer. And that's a that's a moniker that I didn't give myself but I was called the price whisperer so many times and, and the background is we talked about my experience in in, in Europe and Japan a little bit. But then here in the US. We in all of these instances, we did experiments with pricing. And some of those experiments was very, very successful, meaning that next quarter revenues are up 25% or so. Others were real duds. And what I had learned in business school and can read about price was so academic and theoretical, that it didn't help us understanding why some of those experiments worked. And 15 years ago, actually, when when, when I decided I was too old and too opinionated to be a hired gun. I you know, I set up my own shop, and I developed a process that would make every pricing or I should say that makes every pricing experiment a success. And that is that is what we've done. And what we do is that we do willingness to pay research and and we help companies to make pricing a centerpiece of their business strategy. And when you do you transform companies. Let me let me just let me give you Well, first of all, I have a book that I really think that the audience should look for. It's called the price whisperer with a subtitle of a holistic approach to pricing power. And pricing power is something that Warren Buffett coined, he said, his most important criterion for investing in a company is whether they have pricing power. And then he defined it by saying that pricing power is the ability to increase price without losing sales volume. And that's what we're all about, you know, I I sent out I thought I sent out the advanced review copies of the book to a whole bunch of prior customers and said, Can you know, Austin, can you say something nice. And one guy came back and said, his name is Jim and Eric. He said, You took our company from about 100 million to a way over a billion. Thank you very much. Wow. And just some recent wins that we have a company we worked with earlier this this year. We took them from 200 to 250 million in three weeks. Another company we took from 15 to 35. That took about six weeks. And and I had a call with a prior prior prior customers CEO Friday and he said, I'm just calling to thank you. Right. And he said you completely transformed our company completely. He said, We were now thinking about pricing all the time. We're thinking about how we can increase prices so we can defend those increases and how an And by doing so, we also keep our clients happier. 15:04 Yeah, right. That that is such a huge thing that now people understand is that when you charge more, you can actually provide a better service. Or I will, I will stand behind that. And now we're starting to see that too, which is one of the reasons why I have had this conversation in general. So without, and I think you doing those amazing numbers is crazy. And I think it shows that your your time and wisdom and business in general to provide such results in such a quick turnaround is insane, literally insane. Which is why whenever when I read your bio, we had to have this conversation, because everybody always wants to learn how to how to make more money, but sometimes it's just as easy as dialing in your pricing. And you can provide a better service, which makes your customers happy, which are willing to pay more. Yeah, I mean, 15:53 look at Apple Apple got, they have enormous enormous customer satisfaction, right? Yeah, and their phones are substantially more expensive than then then then competition. And competition has not nearly as same customer satisfaction. And there is actually something, there is something called expectation bias. And expectation bias means two things really, it means it means that if you're being presented with a price that you think is too low, you won't buy, right. And I mean, we've all been there where you hold something in our hands, and we say I kind of really want to buy this, but at this price, it can't be any good. Right. And that is equally valid in a b2b and b2c environment. And in fact, it was first discovered in a b2b environment in the 1910s, something like that, when they did tests with with Office Supplies, well, then the other side of expectation bias is that if you buy something at a relatively high price, you, you expect a better result. And because of that, you get a better result. For example, it's been well proven that a five cent aspirin is not very good in curing your headache, but a 50 cent aspirin is. 17:40 So I've have a client who has done $4 million in revenue off of like 40, to $50 products and digital products. So the value is there, hemorrhage to the masses is there. But his whole, unlike this, I'm not saying his opinion is wrong, he was right, he's definitely made the money to produce results. But one of the things that always gets me is like, if you make the price low enough, you can reach the masses, but if you make the price high enough, you can provide more value. So you have to find that balance. 18:15 Exactly. And there is a that's the cornerstone of the methodology i i development when I started the company. And so what we do is is willingness to pay research, which is digital polling of a marketplace and we developed our own methodology to accurately from where we can accurately predict sales volume and revenue at different prices. And And again, this is just as valid in b2b or b2c and, and maximum sales volume, you get on that balance point that you just mentioned. maximum revenue you're always get at a higher price. Always. And, and often often when you and then we developed our own AI software that takes all this data that we create from from the marketplace and and this is something that clients come to us and say I don't know if I have enough data well, well mr. Client, you don't have to have any data we created for you. And and often when when when you get these you get these charts that has sales about the relationship between sales volume and price and revenue and price. And obviously to set the right price once you have that information. is a matter of seconds you know you either pick a price that gonna give you the highest say As volume because you want to leverage the network effect, or you pick a price that's going to give you the highest profitability, or you pick a price somewhere in between that makes sense for you. And, and we typically recommend, always recommend the price for the highest profitability. And that is because with higher profits, you have a chance to you feed the obvious, you feed that back into the company, and you can develop more product, you can serve your customers better, you can hire the best people, etc, etc. You know? 20:42 Yeah, I've been doing, we've been, like I said, the reason why I have wanted to have conversation in general is because we've always been targeting mass mass trying to reach the masses, but and this in our business for like men, is it really makes sense that your higher profits, because like I said, higher profit, and I really want to key on this hiring good people, because that's actually sexy service to clients. And that's always, that's always been the end all and our goal is providing a better service to the clients to get better results. So the service find out pricing higher. 21:17 Yeah, probably the the, but, I mean, you shouldn't you shouldn't get there because there's also something called price walls. And price walls, those psychological price points were a small price change can generate a very substantial change in price volume. Those straight line demand curves that they teach you in business school is pure Bs, and it has nothing to do with reality. And Forex, just to give you an example, there, I, just before the pandemic here, I spent some time with one of the VPS over at HP, that computer company. And they in general terms have a very simplistic pricing strategy. So what they did was they took this one computer model, and they started to inch up the price $1 at a time just to see what happened. And they could increase it $17 Without any change in volume. But if they went up $18 sales just fell through the floor. So what that means is that a they had found a price fall. And secondly, they had been leaving $17 on the table, that sort of that makes a difference when you sell 10,000 of this computer a day. And it's a low margin device, you know? Yeah. And this is one of the things that comes out of the research that we do we know exactly where they are in the house and the cycle they are. 22:57 That's this is like, it's next level thinking that high level businesses are operating in because they're trying to maximize every dollar. So this is like, this is a new, this is a new thought process for me. So that's why I'm kind of taking an end right now. Okay, it's really, it's really good. So is there like a, like I said, No, you find the data, but is there like a methodology, let's say a new company is trying to start out and they're trying to figure out what the price point is? Do they just kind of shoot from the hip at first and then kind of change it up and kind of get their own data together? 23:35 No, no, there's there's first off the the I mentioned some spectacular results here that we generated and you get those results by taking a holistic view on pricing. Because everything you do in the company affects how you can price right? Different customer targeting leads to different ability to price different feature functions lead to different ability to price different marketing channels and messages leads to different willya you know, willingness to pay and therefore support different prices. And so the sales channels and methodologies. So once you take that holistic approach, then then you're transformed the company right? Now if you're just a startup and and and and you know you don't know anything of this and you probably don't have the, the the fund's unless you're you're on sort of series A to engage a company like mine. There's two things you can do. First off, We talked about price points that is too cheap. So you wouldn't, you know, you would lose sales basically. And then price points that are too expensive. So you people won't buy, you know. So what you can do as a startup is that you can go out to your, your, your marketplace, and you need to find at least 25 potential customers who are not current prospects and not customers and not friends and fans. And you describe your product or service, you ask them two questions. And the phraseology of these questions are very important. You ask them now, Mr. or Mrs. prospect, whatever you want to call it. Now, you know what we do, what is a price that is so low, that you think that we wouldn't hold our promises to you that the product or service wouldn't be as good as it could be? Right. And then you ask the same, you know, again, make sure that the person understands the product or service, and then asking, and what is the price that is so high, that it doesn't matter how good it is, it is still too high, it's out of your budget, it's not feasible for you to buy it. And when you when you then average the the result of those 25 conversations for the low price and high price, you have the range of where you should price the product. Right. And you probably want to price it towards the high end. Right, because that's going to give you more profits. And, and if you if you continue this and can get another 25 Or maybe another 50. And this may take several months, you know, if you if you do that, then you can start doing some segmenting, right? Maybe you'll find that people in this area, if you're selling something direct to consumers, people in this area have the averages that are a little higher than those in another area. And or maybe you find that that the this gender tend to answer a little different than the other gender, you know, 27:30 you start clicking your own data, and then you can figure out what to target because of 27:38 you know, compared to what we're doing in the company is a very blunt instrument, but it's better than just guessing or using cost plus or trying to set price similar to a competitor or something like that, you know? 27:50 Yeah, that's the other part I you see a lot in businesses that competitors will try and price match or price compare. And I'm like, You're gonna race into the bottom because ever trying to compete on price when you should compete on value? 28:06 Yep, exactly. And, and I you know, the, I've said that everything you do in the company affects how you can price and, and just to give you an example, I won't mention the company's name, but it's a several billion dollar company. And, and I spoke to them. And this was a few years back, and they said, We're not profitable. Right. But our investor has our investors have given up we have to become profitable. Otherwise, we just kind of disappear. And we're not going to get more money from investors. And but we can't increase our prices. Because we get so much downward pricing pressure, people are complaining about our high prices. And when we painted ourselves in a corner, we don't know what to do. Right. And so I went to the company, they don't look they had prices on their website, and I looked at the pricing page. And the pricing page was one of these long scrolling pages where it just it said, we are low price, we are dirt cheap we are you can't find any cheaper with the best but we cheapest you know. So it sets an expectation that you when you entered scroll down enough that whatever prices you were presented with, they would be too high. Right. So So I told the company, you know that just remove that remove that pricing page. And they did and I spoke to the guy I don't know, maybe a couple of months later and and he said well We followed your advice, we took away the pricing page, we doubled our prices. So now we're profitable and nobody complains anymore. 30:12 That's crazy. It's something so simple, but it was written for their face, they can't see it. 30:18 So another thing that you should think about, and this is obviously for the audience as well is price anchoring. Right? So the way we read as humans, obviously, well, as westernized humans, I should say we were not. In the Arab world here, we read, you know, from top to bottom, left to right. So the first thing that you're going to see, when you look at a price list, or a menu, or a pricing page on a website, or a quotation, or whatever price list, or whatever it may be, is that to the left top, there's going to be a god awful expensive thing, you know, something that you may not ever sell. And it sits there only because as humans, we cannot not compare prices, right? Or compare numbers, I should say. And because of that, the now you have a very expensive reference. And that means that the rest of the prices are going to appear more affordable. 31:37 Is that is that with the big companies product? Like they might have a full product that's expensive? Or is it 31:45 can be shouldn't be a full product, obviously. But it could be? It could be a bundle or something. Right? 31:54 Okay, anything that's expensive, more than we were gonna sell? 31:58 Yeah, I mean, you, you probably sell as much as you want to have a good better best, you know? Yeah, it could be best good, better, you know. So, I mean, we did this for a trade show down in Anaheim. A couple of years ago, we just said, you just need to flip the way your, your, your, the way you presented your your your prices on the website. And they they said it increased sales with about 100k in the in the in the following week. 32:31 Wow. Okay. Okay. So just the way it lays out? Yeah, exactly. 32:35 And I, you know, a good friend of mine is is is running a restaurant in Westwood and and he said, I need to increase my prices, I don't know how to do and I said, Well, what do you have? That is really anyway, there is some kind of fish dish of some very exclusive fish that he put up in the in that left corner and and and and then he increased the rest of his menu prices with 15 20% and sales went up. And he was pretty he was pretty expensive from from the from stock. 33:20 I'm gonna I'm gonna implement that immediately. Because I think that's that's that was that was a good one right there. That was a really good tip. Don't give me that one. Wow. Oh, man, that was good. I like that one. 33:37 You know, this is these kinds of things is is I mean, I, I developed this process and learned about this. When I really developed the process and learn some of these things when when I started the company 15 years ago, but then five years ago, roughly, I got window something called behavioral economics. I didn't know it existed. But I've now learned what behavioral economics is. And bottom line is that we are leaning on on three Nobel Prize winners, right? We what we do is the practical implementation of folks who have gotten over the prices. And it's behavioral economics. It's all about how we make decisions. And because we are not robots, as a seller, you can always affect how that decision is made. Which is one reason why advertising work. 34:44 Do you have the Do you have advertising tips as far as like a lot of people they they drive sales through promotions 50% Off 20% Off and you always say at the grocery store like they might have raised the prices and then given a discount but it's still the same price that was before to test the product and see how well it does on that type of strategy, well, 35:07 grocery stores are maybe there is sort of animal by themselves, but in general terms you should not be you shouldn't in promotions, because again in that process that we developed of measuring willingness to pay, we can also affect it, we can also see how this counts affect willingness to pay, and we can predict sales volume at different discounts. And rarely will you sell more, if you discount more than 20% You will just leave more money on the table. And typically the most effective discounts in that optimizing a higher sales volume with a minimum minimization of of the profits that you give away is between 15 and 20%. And and further, for example, store brands, if we talked about that should not be they should not if they are being priced at prices that are more than 15% cheaper than than the the branded brand. Sales volume will not be where it should be. You will you will see less sales volume if they're lower in price. Because they set that expectation can't be any good. 36:53 Can't be any good. They have a bias. Yeah. Okay, so, man, this is. So what is, man? Is there a price point where they if they raise the prices too much that it's going to deflect any customers from buying? 37:19 Yeah, of course. Yeah. And, and like I said, they we talked a little bit a little bit about these price walls. And if if you, if you raise your price, and you cross one of those price walls, if you really unlucky, you can lose 30 40% of your sales volume. You know, so it's absolutely crucial to know where they are. And on the other hand, sometimes price walls can be minor, and you know, yes, you may lose 5% of your sales volume, but your prices are 25%. Higher, you know? Yeah. So 38:08 it's a, it's a given a take to give and take. 38:10 Yeah, but the key is, is that, and I, I mean, we talked much about the price points, but the the, it's that holistic view that really, really makes the big difference. And that's why many of our clients have had such spectacular results, right? Because it's not only priced Yeah, you can change the price. And that may give you some some additional revenue. But you need to make sure that you are targeting the the customer category, or the customer segments or the customer persona, whatever you want to call them. That will lead to a higher, higher revenue, higher profitability, that you're using the feature functions and benefits in your communication that leads to higher revenue. That you're using the marketing channels and marketing messages that leads to higher revenue, and sales channels and sales methodology that leads to higher revenue. And of course, that your pricing strategy is stratified in some way. That leads to the lowest possible sales friction and the highest possible revenue. No. You can't you don't do that. Let's say that you people say I'm going to do some price testing, okay. So they test different price points. But maybe they they do that to a customer category that from where it doesn't make a difference, you know, and they've helped you price 39:49 your price targeting has to match your your ad targeting. Because, yeah, 39:53 well everything has to match. Yeah. And, and, I mean, imagine that you're going to test Say, eight different price points for different customer categories, three different marketing channels, six different marketing messages, three different sales methodologies and, and four different sales channels, and you end up with 8000 or so combinations. Yeah. And you can't test that. by, by, by the, by the time you're done testing, the market have moved on and whatever you whatever you did, this is irrelevant, you know, so simplified 40:40 is better that we can see yes, or no results versus very 40:47 well, no, I didn't say that. I said that. I said that. It's it's simplified simplify resort. I mean, it's simply to do this simple is that is to use guesswork or to, to use some kind of, of sort of just follow competitors and so forth, you know, and, and following competitors leads to commoditization, and then you have lost all your pricing power. And you enter the commoditization death trap, you know, something that you you want to avoid. 41:22 So, let's talk about the commoditization death trap, because that sounds interesting. Because I feel like a lot of companies, they fall in this pit, they fall and I want to be just like them, but do more. And I'm like, Oh, just do your own thing. 41:40 Yeah, exactly. And the, the. I mean, it's, I mean, it's funny how, let me tell you a story here. 41:52 A while back a maybe a year ago, so I went on to Amazon, and I wanted to buy one of these blood pressure measurement thing, you know, and, and, and I, you know, there's 1000s of them, right. And, as I as I, as I scrolled, I suddenly realized that, okay, here's, here's one of these devices, and it's, I don't know, 26 bucks, or whatever it was, or 35 bucks or something like that. Yeah. And, and then, you know, two pages further down, I saw exactly the same device with a different brand. And, and it was like 16 bucks, bucks, about half the price right. Now, the, the, they weren't differentiated, the more expensive one had, they had better description, they had better photos, and so forth. But you can clearly see that it was the same product with just different brands from two different channels, you know, so obviously, one is more profitable, right? 43:11 Very, very much profitable, 43:13 you know, and and and so the, the cheaper one was just a sort of a Google translation from from Chinese you know, whereas the more expensive one actually had a real copywriter that had written the description and so forth you know, so but I bought the cheap one. 43:36 Well, it's because you're the prices for you can you can see through the pricing. 43:39 Well, I read I read the expensive ones description and then I bought the cheaper 43:49 so we can't just products that you apparently 43:53 know but the one I'm saying is that it was pure fluke, that I managed to see that there were that there were two products that that obviously were the same. And, and but then again, I also there's a there's a brand leader in this in this category, and they also have what looks like identical products. And and they are also they are like twice or three times the price of of the more expensive version of the product I mentioned because they have developed the brand value. And once you develop brand value and what is a brand Well, a brand is a promise of quality and benefits. That's what a brand is. And and if you if you if and because of that, I said if prices are too low, people won't buy it right now And because the brand is a promise Oh quality, it it allows them higher prices. 45:13 A brand is a quality of price. brand 45:17 is a promise a brand is a promise of quality and benefit. And, and this, if we go back to behavioral economics here, it has been found that as we make our purchase decision, our our fear that the purchase is not going to be right that the quality is not going to be right. is two point 25% stronger than our expected benefit. Right. And that's why brand works, right? Because they promise you the brand promise you that. That that that benefit and quality that you may not get in a non branded product. 46:12 I wrote that down because I like I like having meaningful conversations because you always get a good nugget. And that was it right there. So I had to write it down before I forgot. Like now that was double. So good. That was so good. Because it's one of those things where like, I drive really hard on the branding, because we're trying to deliver quality benefits. Right there. I'm gonna put that somewhere on my website. Hope I'm a credit. Yeah. That was so good. It's so good. Like I like I mean, I think this has been an amazing, amazing interview in general, I hope audiences take some of those nuggets, because like, I tell people all the time as the podcast is, for me, it's not really for anybody else. Everybody else gets to partake in the information. But it's really for me, because a lot of these guests that I bring out, I'm learning something from them. And that's, that's really what I care about. So sorry for everybody else. You're just that was that was that was such a great, 47:13 well, I encourage you and also the audience to go to Amazon and look for my book is called the price whisperer. And it's already a best seller. And, you know, I drill deep into all these topics that we talked about here, and many, many more topics that we haven't talked about. And it's called the price whisperer with a subtitle a holistic approach to pricing power. And, and it really teaches people how to look at pricing from a very different, it's not a number, right? It's a number two. But when you look at pricing from a holistic point of view, it's it's much more than a number. And that's why it makes such a huge difference. 48:04 Well go check out his book. And so first.com This has been eye opening interview, I hope opposites interview again, because I feel like this conversation is the highlight of a conversation that a lot of people already listened to. So if you didn't find value Now, you might find value later. And it's just the way you are ready to hear my conversation. And that's usually how something's go. So sometimes you're sometimes we're like, a lot of people are ready to receive information, but their mind was ready for it. So sometimes it was over and over again. It'll make sense at a later time. Pretty good. Well, I appreciate your time. Thanks for coming. I hope one day we'll cross paths in the future since we're both in LA but I appreciate your time and thanks for coming on man it's such eye opening conversation for me. 48:54 All right, well, I'm happy happy was on it was a great pleasure to be on the show. So thank you for your time. 49:00 Well, I would that go like subscribe, go some more episodes like this on all channels. We're here to provide value in wonderful ways. So if you like our episode, go share with your friends. Thanks for joining us this episode. Have a great day guys. Bye