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June 16, 2022

Ep 204- Uncle Karl Spielvogel Judgements, Debts & Excess Funds In Real Estate

Ep 204- Uncle Karl Spielvogel Judgements, Debts & Excess Funds In Real Estate

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Welcome, welcome, welcome. Today we have a special guest. It is Uncle Carl, spill go from North Carolina. And welcome to the next episode of the high business podcast. I'm your host, Daniel Martinez. I'm here in Southern California. There is Uncle Carl, man of the hour. How's it going? Man? I'm good. I'm good. I guess you want to show your sign. I mean, you're pulling it out of the way. Let's see the sign. There you go. We buy houses 704777777 houses and land. That's awesome, man. You're only local and North Carolina. Right? We do most of our business in North Carolina. But we we've done we got some deals in California, Florida, South Carolina, Georgia. And you know, any, any where the deals are really effed up. That's what we'll go there. That's good. That's good. Now one thing one thing I like about what you do, you're a deal problem solver and you solve big problems. That's always a it's always a good thing. We Yes, we love deals, anything that you know, multiple missing heirs, judgments, bad title, excess proceeds, partition sales, bearings and subdividing assemblage creative financing, anything that can I say fucked up. I probably can't say that on this thing. Can I? You already said it. I mean, okay, anything that's different screwed up that that's what we like to do. No, and I really, I really like hitting a point because us as real estate investors have to be big problem solvers. And that's what we specialize in. So I think you tend to take it a step above where you kind of solve difficult problems, because not everybody comes difficult problems to solve problems. But it's a cool niche to be in. And it's always interesting, because you have the coolest stories. We've dealt with some. We've had a I had a motorcycle gang after me one time when I stalked the wrong person that was not fun. Had a gun pointed at my head. You know, I had to open a goat farm to take advantage of the town of tiga K you know, there's always something Yeah, always something crazy going on. Who knew becoming a real estate investor, we get you having to break into houses, guns pulled on you. And all those shenanigans that comes along with it. You know, lawsuits occasionally things like that. suing people try not to get into that too much. But it did happen. So holding you been in real estate, because I feel like you've you've had like 10 plus years of experience I did from 2000. And then it did to 2008. And I lost everything. Everything came tumbling down. And I'd love to save it's because of 2008. And that made it quicker, but it was my business model. I was buying for appreciation I was buying, you know, and then all of a sudden, I had all these high interest loans and lost everything. Then I went into the used car business for a while my ex girlfriend, which is really stupid. Don't ever go Don't ever go into business to ex girlfriend. And don't ever do use cars. But we did Buy Here Pay Here and we learned a lot from that. We had the police here every two weeks. Seriously, every two weeks. There's a problem. Yeah, we did Buy Here Pay Here. We're repairing cars in the middle of night. It was not fun. And then I got back in this. I got back in probably about six and a half years ago. I was totally broke. I didn't have any money and I got back into the business. No, I think it's a lot of people got hurt during the recession. 2008. And for me, I'm like, I've never gone through a recession. I'm like, What's it gonna be like, kind of just one was extraordinary. This was like none before the Great Depression. It took a lot of people down and exposed a lot of weaknesses. I do things a lot differently now than I did then. So it was good in a way. It was very humbling. And it was good that we I went through that stuff, you know. I mean, you get wiser you get wiser as it goes, and time is the best teacher. Yeah. Well, I'll jump right in. I'll tell you how I got back involved. So I'm totally broke. I have very little money. I have a used car dealership with my ex girlfriend. It's going downhill fast. And so I went going back to all the Real Estate meetups I ran into a guy named Mitch young. We done some business together. And he had a property tax delinquent. He said, I got this deal. If you can find this guy, I will. You could find this guy, get him under contract, we'll give you half the deal. So I did some snooping on the internet. The guy name is Li author, I found his resume turns out to use car turnaround specialists. Okay. So I called him up and said the author. I know I hear you used car turnaround specialist. My car dealership is struggling is doing really bad. Can you come up and help me? He's like, Sure. So he came up that weekend. So I hired him scrape together, he did give me a really great deal came up to my office. So we're in we're in the office and then I call my buddy Mitch up, submit you that guy, you're looking for the author, because I can't find him anywhere. So once you come down in my office, he's in my office. He's like, What? The guy's your office. So Mitch came down, we got to he got, you know, met the guy. And then what we did is we let him go back to Columbia, South. When I'm in Charlotte, he went back to Columbia. And then we called up a day later said, hey, you know what, you actually have a property still here in Charlotte when a tax sale, because he told me he didn't have anything. And so I mean, who's crazy enough to hire someone to get to know them? The chance to buy their property? You know, and that's, that was a little bit odd. But anyways, I called him up. He said, Well, we have an offer for 35,000. He said, someone just called me. And I was like, We Arthur, you know us, you met us? Well, we'll match that I'll be down there. You know, an hour and a half, I drove down to Colombia, and we got we signed the contract. We bought it for 35,000. We ended up just clearing the lots but few 100 bucks and sold it make $58,000. Wow. So Mitch is like, you're pretty good at this, I got another one for you. And he would feed me these tax delinquent ones, I would go search the people down, find them. And then you know, work the deal with them, buy the property and we'd split the second one, we made $68,000 on another lot. So like, hey, this, this Pakhtunkhwa stuff pretty good. And then we started realizing that a lot of the people have a lot of the better deals, people are deceased. So we're like, how do we do this? So we started working with the attorneys. And that's when we started learning how to buy shares and work through with judgments and all these different problems through the property. By the way, work in property tax liens won't work in your state, or won't work in North Carolina, because working in North Carolina, I'm the only one that works for so stay stay will stay away from the property tax delinquents in North Carolina, because their gold, he has the list and he's not selling it to nobody. So you're saying right, it's easy, you can call the county and get the list. Anybody can get it, you know, but the whole thing I want people to know is you have to work it, you have to you have to pull it up, you have to look at it, see who's deceased, we build up family trees, and then we'll call the heirs. And we this is how knits will get We'll even look to see if there's judgments. And we even buy the ones with judgments on there too. And then we'll either discount the judgment, we'll let the judgment expire, or we'll buy the judgment. And you can make huge profits that way. Let's I want to talk about judgments a little bit because a lot of people don't understand the judgment and how it works. So one thing I really want to key in on is that you can negotiate judgments, everything's I have a $10,000 judgment, I have to pay $10,000. And that's what most sellers think that's what most wholesalers think. So that's kind of jumping down the judgment line a little bit. Yeah. So basically, judgments are good for basically for 10 years, check your statutes. I'm not an attorney, but a lot of Check, check with your attorney, all the disclosures, judgments are pretty much good for 10 years, then they can renew them after that 10 years, okay. Very few people do. And that you can also if someone has a judgment, they can technically foreclose on the property. Very few people do. Like I've never seen the IRS foreclose. I'm not saying they won't. Um, you know, Ford Motor Credit, I've never seen them foreclose. I've never seen AC supply. So then the judgments are good for 10 years. They can renew them. Well, if you buy the property during that time, and then they renew the judgment. It only renews against the person, not the property. And that's huge. But we love to search these things. Then once you get the judgment again, we you can buy them you can let them expire, which most of them do. Or you can call up and negotiate a discount. I'll give you example the deal we did it was on a piece of property industrial way in Charlotte. There was a lot on by default Corporation, and it had 25,000 delinquent property taxes a $73,000 judgment HD supply, a $63,000 judgment, the Ford Motor Credit If we gave the owner $15,000. And we said, We'll take over all the problem, so you got judgments, you got taxes, you got to fund corporation. So, so we bought it to an attorney with title insurance, subject to the judgments, that means everything's clean, and you're good to go. You just have to deal with these judgments. The first thing we did is we called up HD supply judgment, we skip trace, don't call them up, and we offered them $15,000 To buy the judgment. And they're like, Well, can you do 16? We're like, Sure. So we bought that $73,000 judgment for $16,000. The next one was Ford Motor Credit. Okay. Ford Motor Credit. There's a company called Smith dedmon. In short, in this area, they're the attorneys that do the foreclosing. So you actually have to call the foreclosing or not the foreclosing the one that did the got the judgment? Yeah, you have to skip them, we call them, we also have, you also have to have authorization to release from the old owner saying you can speak on their behalf. We call them up, we negotiate the 63,000 judgment down to the 20 22,000. Okay, then, so now we own HD supply judgment. And the reason we bought HD supply judgment is because it was in second position behind the taxes. And that way, it's worth 73,000, I could get this, I can niche this down, I get. So we can either go for excess proceeds on the sale, or we wanted to have we won the Ford Motor Credit to be like, if we would have just paid off the judgment that Ford Motor Credit goes into second position, you understand. And so that's why we wanted to buy that judgment, we negotiated with the Ford Motor Credit for the discount, we sold the property and we made $143,000 on that deal. I've got slides for it. And let me let's do a hive mind where I've got the slides of judgments. And I'll show you exactly but just know that you can a lot of times do that discount, or no we could have done we could have waited two and a half more years, both those judges would expire. This is how much dumb asses Ford Motor Credit is. And HD supply. They don't even realize people have property. They don't even realize it's technically attached. They just pretty much let them go and expire for the most part. So it's learning which companies will will don't pay attention and whatever you so you guys can take over properties, sometimes with judgments and then you know, discount them, let them expire or buy them. But they technically could foreclose during that time, but most of them don't. So I really I heard a nugget that probably went over like 90% of people's heads, but I really want to hone in on it. So no one talks about this really wants you to talk about it because no one knows about this unless you're you know, specialized knowledge or someone like you. So what is excess proceeds? Because you barely mentioned it. Okay, but it's such a big thing. But no, no, I want you to explain the other thing too, because how does excess proceeds of work in a real estate transaction? Because I guarantee you 95 of the people that hear this are like, What is he talking about? Well, excess proceeds is whoever owns the property. Okay, let's say it goes to a tax sale or foreclosure sale. Okay? Let's say the taxes are $12,000. And the property sells for 100,000. Right? There's about 88,000 in excess proceeds that's deposited with the clerk and whoever owns the property at the end of the foreclosure sale or owns the property, you can go ahead and get that now there's some caveats there like if there's some other judgments, sometimes they come out and city liens, so and then sometimes the foreclosing attorneys will charge a 5% fee. So you have to factor that into the property sells for 100,000. There'll be an extra fee for 5000. So excess proceeds is basically whatever, whatever let's say they're foreclosing on 12,000 taxes that it sells for 188,000 is excess proceeds. That's the Cliff Notes. That's the short version of excess proceeds. And there's a whole bunch of courses on that. And there's a ton of them. We make a ton of money on the excess proceeds strategy too. So I want to make that a little bit further for everyone who doesn't know what it means. So when I learned about real estate, I thought that whenever somebody was foreclosed on that money just went into limbo, and the seller never gets it and for all the horses out there, that is not the case, it technically goes to excess proceeds, whoever holds the title gets the excess proceeds, they should wait for all the paperwork and pre foreclosure to go through and all that stuff to go process and then you can collect the excess proceeds. So it does not go in limbo. And I'm gonna reaffirm that it has not gone in limbo. Somebody can collect that. If nobody collects it. It goes to overages and it just sits inside the Treasury account for the state And then we'll get set in the clerk's office. And then eventually it's a street into the state, and they get the money. So they'd love when they can do this because they make millions and millions a year on these excess proceeds. But you know, we have to hire an attorney to do this. And it's not guaranteed, okay, that's one thing I want to make sure people know it's not 100% Guaranteed. But most of the times you can get those excess proceeds, you got to be careful that if you missed a judgment or something, you know, you have to run title to you then then the judgment holder can apply for excess proceeds. And I'll give you let me give you a perfect example. We bought a house from air there's, there's a house has been foreclosed on. There's one air, we paid them $500. For, for their deed, they just want to get out of it. They had a judgment that was up to $11,000. And accruing interest, most judgments accrue interest. So this had accrued up to 19,000, I skip traced the judgment holder and bought that judgment for 2250 bucks, when we applied for excess proceeds, we applied to get the money from the judgment that we own that judgment now. So we got a check for 19,000 Plus, we got the rest of the overage on the property. So that's, you know, if it's Mitchie, if it's strange, weird, we want to learn it, we want to run with it. You know, and we do all sorts of stuff. Now, here's the thing, too, is we do a lot, a lot of these properties, you know, a lot of tax delinquents people passed away. And most of those times people don't open estates, there's no probate. So what we do is we build the family tree, and then we'll buy out the air shares. Okay, and this was what's really cool. If you don't get all the air shares, then let's say we end up with 75% of it, we can do what's called a partition sale, where we forced the whole property be sold. When it goes to sale at the courthouse, you win either way, if it sells for low you buy it yo and 75% if it goes for high, you let it go and collect the excess proceeds. So most of the time, we're able to get the heirs together, buy the properties and own them. And but if we can't we have multiple exit strategies. You know, I guess I'm getting too niche II and into this stuff. But it's good man because I love the conversation because like, excess proceeds, I've only I had I took a specialized course on overages. I learned about excess proceeds and how records real estate I'm like, oh my goodness, I've been in real estate for three, four years and didn't hear about this till now. Like no one knows this. And then I met another investor in California. And that's what he does. He knew about the strategy. This is brilliant. And then you mentioned it, and I'm like, okay, all the people that do a nice title work and niche, real estate, they all know this stuff. And then like no one, no one ever talks about it, because it's so specialized knowledge that you really have to know the ins and outs. And it's such it's such a great little nugget out there for everybody do some research on excess proceeds, lien positions, all that stuff because it's important whenever you're doing Trouble, trouble, trouble, title, all that stuff. You run into a lot of the tax delinquents in the foreclosures, you know, you'll run into a lot of the problems because they're not paying their tax, they're usually a problem someone's dead, there's a judgment, all sorts of stuff. And then like we'd love land, I guess you got to sort of like land a little bit to go into a little bit here and there. A little bit here and there. So one of the things we look for blocks that are too small to build on. Okay, and we do what are called variances it has to be a lot of record I think before 9098 There's certain criteria that has to meet Okay, and so we do is we find these lots, we'll buy them for cheap like we bought we got this one lot for $500 to 10 Walford part of a package I'll throw this lot in it's not build was too small. Well, we hired a variance attorney, we went through and the variances they basically take it in front of the city and they say we have a hardship and they allow us to move the buildability line lines out so it's buildable it basically taking some it's too small and and for the best way and then they say we're gonna let you build on it. So we're taking these locks that are too small so we bought this went to 10 Walford, we did the variants on it, we sold it for 95,000 you make 84,000 We bought another one on 17th Street for 23,000 got the variance and we sold that for I think is like 160 Okay, another one East 19th Street small lot and it's better if I show you what we bought for 12,005 and sold for 140. So you Another niche thing we're looking at, in the variance, what's cool is sometimes we'll find lots that are 40 foot wide, okay? And then it requires 50 foot to build on, well, we can get a variant. If there's a lot of record before I think 9098 or 92, we can hire our attorney, David Murray. In Charlotte, he's a great attorney. And he'll go through and get so we, we got this one lot. That was 40 feet wide, did the variance and sold that. So there's all sorts of types of variances that you can do. There's not just small lots, it's just things like that. So there's this whole realm, whatever they want people to have this whole realm of stuff out there, you know, that you can do. There's this thing called lots of record, where, like, I'm giving away way too much shit and probably to get my butt kicked here in Charlotte. But we found these 100 foot locks that are zoned R four r 486 60 foot of frontage, right, people like you can't subdivide that 200 feet, but I can use this grandfathered lots of record, subdivide them and put them back to two lots. So I have this unfair advantage. Learning these, these are basically zoning loopholes and legal loopholes. You know, I want to learn this. And then I want to take that same thing or one with over and over and over again. And that that's a great way to make money, learn a legal loophole, a grandfathered, zoning, cause look for those and repeat, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat over and over and over again. One thing, one thing I think is really cool about what you do. And a lot of people that do stuff like what you do in general, is that you guys are literally rebuilding neighborhoods for stuff that's been sitting there for 30 years, untouchable, unbuildable worthless in most people's eyes, you're actually making it worthwhile making it profitable making it worth something. So it's a huge, you're changing the outlook of the landscape all by yourself. Yeah. And what I like about it, too, is like with the errors, a lot of times, there's some of these deals, we have one right now with 50 Something errors, okay, so we build these trees out, we bought this house, you know, nobody would have cleared the title one for us. So we bought it out or almost the way through. So we've got one of the 21 heirs, one with like 50 heirs, and you know, these are things and these are things where people are not gonna get any money, okay, they're not gonna put it together. It's free money to them. Okay, when I call them up and say your heirs to 533 Selden, not another, you know, and they're like, Yeah, I sort of remember that was Aunt Martha's house, and you know, and like, okay, we're paying X dollars for your share. They're happy because it's found money to them. Yeah. Even though they had, yeah, and let me tell you about our biggest deal ever. On a single family home. It was a house that was vacant. And this is another air deal. It's found money to them. And it was a we see vacant house, some squatters moved in. The guy had passed away. Okay. So what we did is that we built our own family trees now. Okay. At the time we hired genealogists built the family tree out, and the rightful heirs were Jack and Louis Anders. Okay. And long story, but their father died in a plane crash in Korea, we get into this stuff we get into this, like we learned was the father died in a plane crash in Crete in 1973. Okay, and so they were the rightful heirs. We couldn't find them anywhere. We searched and searched for like, what are we doing wrong? So I went back to the funeral home were Frank had had been that held his funeral. And I got the funeral book, okay. And I skip trace, every single person that went to the funeral. I read the book, write them down. And then someone told me said, Yeah, Jack and Lewis, their mom got remarried to a police officer outside DC. Were like, well, what if she changed the boys names? Ding, ding, ding, ding dang. We found this article Hoffman, Mary's Anders. And we were and so we're able to find them. And here's the thing to the Frank had died without a will and test day and you're supposed to probate it. Okay. But if somebody, here's the here's a little loophole. North Carolina doesn't always but somebody has been dead over two years. You don't have to open an estate. We didn't want to open the state. We're afraid of what might happen. So we're like, This is important when you talk to us like here's the situation. Your uncle Frank owns this property. We're buying it without title insurance. There's vagrants in the house, their city code, um, it's going to auction in two weeks, which was for tax foreclosure. And there's a there's a nice that actually had a lease in the property 2040 for $1. Okay. And so you got all these problems. And I said, we'll give you 35,000. So part of when when you're doing this, you have to set the table, you have to sort of say, Look, these are all the problems you want to take it on as your property, but we'll give you X dollars. And they're like, Well, seems like there's a lot of problems here. And the second thing they said, after that, they said, This is found money, if you want to found us, we never really got it. Oh, it's also partially in a flood zone. Okay. So we're like, these are all the problems. So I said, we'll take your 35,000, because you're buying it without title insurance. So we bought it, kept it two years, we sold it for 310. And we made 243,000. That's after paying bonuses to the to the bird dog that found it. So what I want to get as the this is found money most of the time to people where they can't put it together. So that's what I really like about it. Man, and this is author, the texting with this, this, this is tax delinquent, driving for dollars. And then another thing we do is we take our GIS system, we look for double lat, triple lat houses with land, we look for lots that can be combined and re subdivided. We look for all this stuff. We put it in spreadsheet, and then we skip it and we call because it's like it's a value add, we know that there's extra value there if we can buy the property. Yeah, well, that's another way. And I'll tell you a quick example. There's a property on campus straight, okay. 13 heirs, took us a year to get this done long story. But we finally bought it, we bought it for 62,000. Then Then we sell there's one lock right in front of it. This is better visual, and I'll show you this on the hive mind. There's lot right in front of it. And we're like, if we buy the lot in front of it, we could can we subdivide it into four locks facing the other road. So we call the zoning department of MIS Yeah, if you get this other law. So I kicked around this Uncle Carl math, one plus one divided by three equals four. Okay, so we bought it, got it approved to subdivide into four lots sold it, we made $166,000. So we're looking for that value add, we're looking for opportunities, and most people would not look for that. But if you if you can just dive a little bit deeper, spend some time looking, I can reconfigure the lots and subdivide them, you can make a fortune. So that was that was really nice hit on that deal. One of the things I have in front of everybody wants to get into niche real estate, it takes time. It takes like every deal, every deal you mentioned, like six months, a year, two years that the heirs like what? Well, we do some quick wholesaling stuff, you we do have some 60 day, 30 days, most of our deals, six months plus from start to finish it, it takes time working on these deals with the errors or you know, subdividing or with the judgments, you know, but here's another little thing too. That's really cool is I'm in Charlotte, and for this happens. There's a lot of houses that were demo like their houses, they didn't meet code, they demoed them. Well, the city puts a 10 to $14,000 demo lien on it. Well, delete the demo. Judge judge, it's really good for 10 years. So we're buying properties with eight years worth of you know, eight years into the judgment and we're just waiting two more years for the judgment to fall off. So far. Now hope there's nobody from Charlotte watching this in the city, but they don't renew their their demo liens. They just they just fall off. So we buy these locks you know, and then we just wait for the judgment liens default that expire. Yeah, that's a that's that's huge man as soon as she's buying weight. One thing I was curious about to that I I've never looked into. You said you're buying the judgments do you go in there as like, like a cash buyer, they can't want the judgment on 8123 main street, I want to buy this lien. What you have to like, like, we'll have to, we'll have to we'll pull the pull the file from the courthouse, and we'll read it and they'll say, you know, like, like Smith dedmon Does, whatever, like whatever, Chip, Tiffany's attorney that did it. And then we'll just call the attorney like, you'll have to go in. You put you pull the title work, you get a judgment and then you have to go in and pull the judgment, read over that and see which attorney is handling the judge. Typically, it's typically it's handled by an attorney, not always, then you have to call call them and then just this is what I say I said, I'm Carl spelt with the lions finance and we buy bad judgments or old judgments, and I noticed you have one. I'm sort of just curious what your plans are. And then you shut up and you listen, you know, like, like, for example, the one that I bought for 20 250 bucks. I just called the guy up and said Your judgments about eight years old not it's going to expire. I'm just curious what your thought lambs Oreos? Well, I don't know. And I'm like, Well, I can buy it from me. And I said, goes, Well how much I said 2250 are sold, done done. like, Damn, I should have offered less. But But But wanting to get is if you here's another Yeah. So anyway, this I love this stuff. It's so exciting. So it's pretty easy. You just have to skip trace, call them and then negotiate, negotiate to purchase the judgments. Or if you have a property, you might be negotiating a discount to pay it off. A lot of times, that's what we'll do, we'll negotiate a discount to the you know, to pay it off. Have you ever bought a judgment and foreclosed? Yes, a deal I shouldn't have done. This was a deal that our friend Brian Linky brought the five attorneys they said you guys, you guys can't do is too complicated. So I'm like, I can do anything. Okay, I was like Mr. Billy badass, shouldn't have done this deal. But this is how it worked. So there was a first mortgage to an IRA, a second mortgage to private individual, a whole bunch of different judgments against the property. So these judgments came later. So what we did is we skip traced one of the judgment holders. And this is what we said, we called them up said, hey, look, do you have a judgment? What happened? You know, tell me what happened. He goes, Oh, this guy screwed me over. And he owes me a lot of money. I said, you're very far back. There's a first mortgage, a second mortgage, all these other judgments. It doesn't look like you're gonna get anything is No, probably not. I said, How would you like to make a little bit of money and get the guy back? This is you can look this up in shorts, 3101, Florida, okay. What we did was, we basically rented his judgment, and we foreclosed on the property to get ownership. And we own the property. But we still had to do with the first mortgage, a second mortgage. So we negotiate the first mortgage, a discount, okay, the second mortgage, we negotiate and get them down to $7,500. And we negotiate discounts and liens with all the other ones, we made $75,000 on it. It wasn't worth the time. But as it was a proof of concept it was worth doing. And for bragging rights, but it really all the time we spent it was it was so much but so the point is you can get a judgment and foreclose and own the property. And some people do that. But you also got to look at the title, where the judgment falls in line now in the beginning, and it's a pretty big judgment. That's one you'd love to buy, you know, because you're gonna pick up the most equity, and you can wipe out everybody else. When you when you foreclose. Was that any wipe all other positions? I think it depends. It depends if the property sells for 100,000, you're judged for 75,000 There's gonna be 25,000 that anybody else can get and apply for. So that's something you need to talk to an attorney and I'm not an attorney. But it pretty much does, I think, but I think there can be access with some of the other judgment lien holders could go after, depending on what your amount of your judgment is. Damn or niching down. It's a weird shit army. Yeah. But like I said, you can correct me if I'm wrong. I thought like, if if you let's say there's five judgments, you buy a second position. When you buy and foreclose on second position, you can certainly wipe out three, four and five, right? I think it depends. It depends. I think it depends, I think depends on like, how much your judgments for, let's say, you, and I'm not an expert on this. I don't either. But let's just say you buy the first position and that judgments worth 50,000. You foreclose the property sells for more than that. I think those other judgment holders can get up to that amount. But I think it's a rule of thumb, you're right, you buy the judgment foreclosed. It'll wipe out most of the others typically. Does that make sense? Yeah. And that's something you need to talk to an attorney about. So and like I said, your judgment list? Do you actually contact the place like, hey, what properties of digital side or you're looking at properties first than doing a poll, we back into all the judgments? It's by going up the tax delinquents. It's by referrals, and foreclosure so we're backing into them, and we've run title we find them. And another one we'd love to find is IRS judgments. So we bought a house at 4548 Strangford it had all the other people ran like oh my god, it's got $100,000 in IRS judgments. So we're like, hey, well buy it. It was a foreclosure. We paid 73,000 My partner Mitch put 73,000 IRA gave the owners a couple $1,000 There was $100,000. The IRS judgments or liens are only good for 10 years. And they typically don't renew them if they renew them, because we put it into the land trust only renews against the person. So we bought it with all the judgments. We rented it out And then we sold it four years later, we made $147,000 on that deal. Now, I've never seen the IRS foreclose. I'm not saying they won't. But my experience, I've never seen that happen. We just by him, we weighed out, we weighed out the IRS judgments. Well, I mean, I think it goes back to like, the IRS is, they're there to collect taxes, not there to own property. There's gonna wait to somebody fixes it or falls off. Yeah, that we bought several that we waited the IRS out, you know, little nerve racking, but it, it's paid off really good for us. And I think it comes down to measuring your risk. And it seems like you're buying these deals so deep, that you're willing to weigh that risk. Yep. So, at some point, we're gonna, I told my partners at some point, we're gonna have a 5060 $70,000 loss. But if we keep winning with these big ones, if we have a 60, or $70,000 loss, we're playing with house money now. So I'm okay with that. And we probably will at some point have a 60 $70,000 loss. And I'll come back on and told you tell you how we lost 60 or 70,000. It's gonna happen. It's gonna happen at some point. But mostly, you know, $166,000, profit 243 to 28,000. You make these big profits, you know, you're gonna have a loss somewhere when you're buying these things with bad title title issues. So far, we haven't had any more than some small, small losses. So now, I got me curious, because like I said, I understand a lot of this stuff. It's just I haven't haven't really dove into it on here in California. It's just one of those things where like, I have I have I'm a I'm a sponge of information. I love this stuff, too. Because it's kind of funny how, like, all this, all this judgment stuff. And it's so cool that you've bought a judgment and foreclosed because like, in my head, I was like, if I had the money in time, I would probably do that too. Just for fun. This is just a car we paid to be paid $2,000 to basically, we well, we just rented his judge, we gave him $2,000 foreclosed put the proper name, we gave him the judgment back, and he released it against the property. So you can still go after the guy. You rented a judgment that's on that one a 31, a one. Florida, we basically used his judgment to foreclose to get to ownership. And then he released it from the property, but he still let him keep the judgment so we could go after other stuff the guy had. That's crazy. judgments are so interesting. It's crazy how it works. But that's so so interesting, man. Now I'm like, in my head, I'm like, what property? How many properties are out there that have judgments on them? That you can negotiate and buy a judgment and get a badass deal? hundreds, or even 1000s and 1000s? These tax delinquents will be people that had cars that got repoed. So it'll be a six or $7,000 judgment or more for the car a lot of times, I mean, the rule of thumb, and I'm not saying right, you can almost always get 50% off on a judgment almost always, depending. And sometimes you can get them for pennies on the dollar. It sort of all depends on the situation. So my brain goes other ways. So people that are in debt for anybody who out there in debt and have judgments on you or for any type of debt consolidation. You can technically get an LLC say your debt consolidator and buy your own debt at pennies on the dollar. Yeah, it's possible. Yeah. No, it's uh, I like I like providing the knowledge that not a lot of people think about, but it gets the wheels turning and people's like, Okay, I My cousin is in a lot of debt go through a lot of financial problems. If they came into some windfall of money, they can technically contact have some of those contact their debt and buy it but the cents in the dollar or cheaper or discount it and pay it off? Yeah, I mean, there's a lot there's a lot of bad debt out there that people will take pennies on the dollar for just to get paid. You know. It's one of those. My mind just goes there. And it's, I think it's kind of funny, because like, a lot of people in those situations, I think has entered the world. And like for us really, yeah, you'd probably get 30 cents on the dollar and cents on the dollar. It all depends on the situation. So this is kind of another tangent of debts. There was a there's a guy on he has an HBO he does a comedy show, John Oliver he bought like, like millions of dollars worth of debt pennies on the dollar with with and He forgave all the debt. He forgave like 100 million dollars with a debt because he bought it so cheap, and that he sent letters out to all these people that he forgave all this debt that he just bought. And it's one of those things where like, a lot of people like medical debt, credit card debt, all these different types of judgments like all this stuff. There's there's there's a gray area, and once you understand it Yeah, we could have bought it for like five cents on the dollar or something like that exactly. Like if you're buying that much debt, you probably get it really cheap. And there's just people. There's people out there capitalizing on this information, which is why I love this, this is such a great call. And this is some whoever this is, I wish I should configure a way to figure out answers, but at least blew my mind. And this was things like you don't know, you don't know what you don't know. But once you understand how the process works, how the whole judgment liens, like you can understand the process and it kind of opens your mind to limitless possibilities. Yet like, like, here's another example, these houses that were demoed in Charlotte and elsewhere, sometimes there's mortgages still out there, right. So like that somebody had a house, and it got in bad shape, the city demoed it. And then the mortgage company said, you know, it's still technically attached to the property, they stopped paying the taxes. And so far, we've been able to get the mortgages were 100% successful so far, I'm not saying we're also on getting the mortgages released from the property. Okay, so we have one at 4109. Glenwood, where we gave some money, some money up front, we knew there's old mortgage. So what happens is taxes are always in first position, no matter what. Okay, so what happens with the house got demoed, then the taxes didn't get paid for years and years. So they're now in first position. So this mortgage company, they're just like, there's nothing left. So when we do our legal filings that they have certain amount of time to respond that they don't, our attorneys, mark the mortgage satisfied, and we're able to resell the property. And that, that's just another little niche, a little another little nugget that we learned, just by jumping in, you know, a lot of stuff, we'll, if we can get a little bit of money, we'll buy something, or we'll partner with the person, and we'll just try to figure it out. And that that was really cool. So we've done quite a few of those and that those have been great windfalls. Because the people know usually errs, there's a mortgage there behind the taxes. There's a demo lien, they're like, You know what, give him a little bit of money. We'll go through and work through through everything, get the mortgage, released, and we'll be able to resell them the property. And here's another little thing I learned a lot of this stuff guys is getting in and figuring it out along the way. Um, there was a problem. Okay, there's, I live in Mecklenburg County, the county next to us a Gaston County. So I was looking at this property in Gaston County, and I was negotiating to buy it. And we ran title. And that gotten the guy was in Mecklenburg, and he had tons of IRS liens against him. I'm like, oh, man, I'm not gonna be able to buy this property, we're done. Well, here's some gold nugget. IRS liens are only good in the county, they're filed in, they didn't file any of the ones in Mecklenburg County didn't attach the house. So I was able to negotiate a really good deal on terms with the guy to buy the house. So that's just, I mean, it doesn't happen very often. No, but if you know to look for some of these things, then every now and then that'll happen like every now and then we'll get one of these small lots that for next to nothing or cheap that we do the variants on every now and then we'll see when like the campus triggers one lot, plus one divided by three is four. So we have Yep, all the little niche things that you learn, maybe you do two variances a year, maybe do a couple of the redo and re subdivide. But if you're making 166,000 100,000, whatever, then you know, 100,000 here and there, it starts to add up to real money after a while. So I have a question of the IRS lien. So the IRS lien does that attach in the county? Does it still touch the hem? Or did you negotiate it down since it wasn't attached to the county? Well, it was still attached to him. But because it's following Mecklenburg and he owned a house in Gaston County, we're able to buy that we didn't have to negotiate anything with the IRS because the lien didn't attach to that one property in Gaston County. Gotcha. Check with your attorneys, all that kind of disclosures that are there. But that I mean, again, doesn't happen very often. No, but it just somehow because it does happen. I have you know, it happens. Now man this this. This is a I love this conversation, man. Because this judgments and airships is it's fun. It's fun. It's fun to play pieces all together. And it's like putting together a puzzle that pays you 1000s of dollars at the end. Yeah, it takes a lot of time. And you have to put your money up front on a lot of these deals, you know, because who's going to sell you who's going to loan money on a property where you Oh, nine tenths of you know, it's like hey, you got a hard money lender. Can you loan me money Oh, nine tenths of this property or they're gonna look at you. It's crazy. So it does take some you know, you have to put your money in these messy things. But the paydays are huge. Do you do like Novation type deals? I think you do because you're almost like you partner with the seller that we bring less money to the table because you're just at that point you're spending your time we have not done a Novation deals yet. We know a little bit about them, but we have not done anything like that. I mean, it sounds like you've done them in your own way. Just not call them innovations. Yeah. What like, I'll tell you about another one. Is it property tax delinquent deal? It was a commercial building, okay. And we skip trace the guys behind on taxes. He left town we found and we called them we started talking to him. When he asked was that building still standing? I'm like, yes, it's still standing. But in Charlotte, like if commercial buildings been abandoned for certain period of time, they, we were worried about code enforcement. And if we had to renovate it, sometimes they'll make if it's been abandoned a certain amount of years, you're gonna have to bring it up to today's code. So we didn't want to really buy it. So we're trying to negotiate back and forth. And then we finally said, Hey, let's do this. Let's partner on the deal. Okay. First of all, you didn't even realize the building was still standing. Okay, so let's partner on the deal. So we ended up again, because we were afraid of code. We're afraid of what the city might make us do. So we didn't want to put our cash into this building. So we said, look, we're good at marketing, we'll put some money into it, which we did we clean it up. And then then we'll split the profits 5050. He's like, Sure. So we formed LLC, Land Trust, basically, LLC, where he got 50% of the beneficial interest, we got 50% of the beneficial interest. The reason we did that is we didn't want any more judgments and stuff to attach. Well, it turns out, there's old deed of trust open, and there's old mortgage on it, and the owner of that was deceased. So long story, you made a deal to pay them out. We went to we went to the owners, relatives, and worked out a deal for them to satisfy the mortgage. And then we sold it, we made $90,000 on about a three or $4,000 total investment, because I was just cleaning it out and putting into a partnership. So sometimes partnerships work with sellers in certainty. That's another thing too, we've learned all sorts of creative ways. Sometimes it makes sense to partner with them. This one, it made sense for us to partner because we didn't want to take the risk of having to bring it to code with and what the city would, and city code enforcement. So we partnered put it into our own land trust think it was LLC. And then it protected both of us because of any judgments. So no more judgments or problems could happen to the property. And then we sort of were able to get through this old deed of trust that was still open on the property. And that's, there's just so many ways to do stuff out there. It's just, it's just, it's just crazy how you can how you can structure stuff, you know, what is a quote that is yours or somebody else's that you resonate with? I can't think of anything off the top of my head. You know, a little bit you make your own luck. I think that people are like, Carl, you got lucky on this deal. You got lucky on this. I think by taking action and putting stuff out in the universe. You make luck. And then you know, but I don't have any really quote any kind of real quotes that I can say, but I'll give you a quick example making your own luck. Okay. This is a we got a property two owners this lot and bearwood guy named Brian O'Brien. Okay. Anyways, there's two owners, right? Skip trace, we make a deal to buy half the lot. And then there's another half the guy's name was the Mario Fleming, okay. And we couldn't find them. This is sort of in the beginning, where we're trying to find a Mario everywhere. And I'm like, Man, I can't find this guy. We're closing out, we only find half this thing. What are we going to do? So I was at this real estate meeting, Linda Dana's real estate meeting, and I was talking to a guy next to me, his name was Gary Bolgar. And I was said, hey, look, yeah, we talked about different deals, like, hey, I can have this deal. And I said, I just gotta find this other half. This guy's name is D'Amario Fleming. And I gotta I can't find him anywhere. He said, Who do you say? D'Amario Fleming? Just, he's one of my best friends. He lives in Florida. He opened his phone. I called him up and said, Tomorrow I got someone who wants to buy half that lot you own and he handed me the phone. Tomorrow happened to be flying in that weekend. Okay for a funeral, and we're trying to close it Monday or Tuesday. So I convinced him to pay for his hotel room to stay over another night. And he did. But that was lucky. But I put it out in the universe, and it came through. So being an action and stuff you're going to create your own luck. So I really believe people create Get through luck. That's the best thing I can get to a sane I wouldn't say it's really the same, but you're out there doing stuff. You're gonna make luck come to you. Now, I think it's a valid statement because a lot of people, they, they're waiting for the opportunity. And you can wait your whole life for an opportunity to come across. People are like, I'm ready for the downturn. I'm waiting for the downturn. Well, you're being a dumbass. There's opportunities everywhere. I don't care how high the market is, between these judgments, these errors, the zoning loopholes, people that did for sell. There's opportunities everywhere. So if you're waiting for the downturn, and I'm just kidding, I can understand what I'm not really calling people dumb assets. But I'm just trying to say is, don't wait for that there's opportunities ever go out, make your own luck, go out and figure this stuff out along the way. This is the United States, there's more opportunities here than anywhere else. This is such a phenomenal fucking country with opportunities out there. And there's people like you guys, sharing information, your high bind, CRM and stuff, there's all this stuff out here. You just got to be an action, you gotta learn and surround yourself with good people, and you're gonna be successful. Man, I appreciate that, man. Make your own luck. Go out there do the work. There's no shortcuts in life. Only all you're gonna get is if you do more work. I think I think it's, it's one of the things. Here's another thing that's really helped us, okay. We spend a lot of money with attorneys. Okay, so I took my two attorney buddies out, and we spent $1,250 for one meal. And of course, I get them liquored up as I can. And then, you know, they'll start getting really drunk as well. Can you tell me some like, like, really cool zoning stuff are really cool stuff like that. Here, you need another tequila, this $35, tequila, you hand it to him. And then they start. I'm sort of kidding, but truthful. But by spending time with the attorneys, they're telling you all sorts of really cool stuff. I spent a lot of time with my surveyor. This is another thing I went out the other day with my surveyor spent one hour, I'm not kidding, I will make 300 to $500,000 off what he showed me seriously, subdivide certain things, how to do certain things. So one of the things too is if you can learn the niches, talk to the surveyors, talk to the zoning people, you know, talk to the investors that are doing creative stuff, then you that's your path quicker to that niche, that stuff that people don't talk about, that you can make a ton of money. It's like the judgment stuff. You know, it's talking to a lot of attorneys figuring that out, like you can by our judgment, okay, I didn't even when at first I didn't know any of this stuff. I was just talking to attorneys, investors, and figuring out and if you spend a lot of your time doing that, then you and learning these things you guys can you guys can do really well in this business. So I heard an interest I go on tick tock. Why because I produce stuff on tick tock, so I pay attention to stuff on tick tock, I saw this younger guy, he's a business professional. He said he wanted to learn specialized knowledge. So he went out and found the person you want to learn from, and asked her how much you get paid a month, just like about eight to $10,000 a month. He's like, I'll pay $9,000 for eight hours of your time. And she's like, what she's like, You want three days? And she says no, no, eight hours. So the lady went in and made a hope she said a month of her time to create a presentation that eight hour presentation for this one guy for $9,000. And he's soaked up all the information in one day. It's worth it $9,000 Like, like, if you can learn one or two things that you can replicate. Oh my god, I'm that meeting with my surveyor was incredible blew my mind. You have like, you can't subdivide it this way goes, Ah, yes, you can, you know, so you have to do this. And this and this. I'm like, Holy shit, you know, it's like, and we've already done three or four deals from what he showed us. So we've already put it into play. So now we have these niche things that are this knowledge that a lot of people don't have. Yeah, so that you made a great point there, that person $9,000 for the presentation on how to make money over and over again, that's cheap. That's cheap, as cheap, as cheap one when you have the when you actually have the ability to take action on it, and you understand different facets of it. So if you already know what you're coming at, for what, what specialized knowledge you require from them, you can absorb it all quickly and pay pay them for the price that for them a day $9,000 as a as an exorbitant amount of money but your for you. You can actually use your marketing side and bringing your skills to make your return exactly make it make it work. I mean, so make it work. So I really wanted to bring that up because that was such a huge nugget, the specialized knowledge you get from your time accompany your surveyor, your attorneys, all that stuff is going to be priceless for you. And you can leverage that forever, especially if you're local, and you do business locally, so heavily. The key is to get them really drunk. So they loosen up and they tell you more so, and you got to pay for that sometimes you gotta pay for a really good time. Sometimes. I tell my wife all the time, like, I'm gonna go take somebody out to dinner, she's like, you're gonna have fun, like, No, I'm working. I'm working right now. It's both you're working, you're having fun, and you're learning a lot of great stuff. So for anybody out there that wants to learn things quickly, sometimes you got to pay for it upfront but if you're if you're going to use that if you're going to use that information wisely and in the future, is worth paying for always, always worth paying for. And let me put put up I have a mastermind group is way, way, way, way way too cheap. $205 a month it's called Uncle Carl with a K uncle call and friends mastermind group. We share this kind of stuff. We also bring specialists in like we brought brought my friend Eric in. She's a genealogist she builds family trees. Chi Chi Chi helps find people we brought the Andre from the hive minds been on there. He broke down his whole business. I couldn't believe he showed he showed exactly how he makes money to everybody. I was like, DeAndre, you just showed everybody your whole business thing. He's like, I'm fine. He had abundance mentality. So you know, we bring people like this into their Oh, and we had Daniel do even at Daniel on so it join my mastermind $105 a month. It's cheap. And you get a lot of great information, a lot of different people and stuff so so how do we find that again? Uncle Carl's gonna have a link but if you Google Uncle Carl, the K Uncle Carl and friends mastermind group. Oh, Erica is here. I didn't realize she was here. Hey, Erica, she did a phenomenal presentation last night. We were on for like two or three hours finding errs finding people, you know, it was just and just sharing how you can actually do it yourself. It was a phenomenal, phenomenal meeting last night. So that's awesome. Man. I'm I'm always the reason why I do this. And the reason why I do this as a whole is because I tell us to people all the time, as I support people that support people and US people that support people, we're making a driving force to the real estate, community education community. And it's just really providing information freely, that everybody else can capitalize on it. The reason why, like, the reason why like I share information freely, not everyone's going to take action. Like if people can listen to the same conversation the last hour we just had, and pull five things out of it and do some research on it. They can become a millionaire in five years. By the way, if you make money, please send me a small cut. You know, I'll leave my phone number to if people want to. It's best if you text me. How do I put How do I do you get the stream thing? I'm not used to this. I'm used to go through here to chat up, put it up here. Okay. Okay. This is my personal phone number. I prefer people text first. But you know, we love to talk real estate. We joint venture, I'm probably 20 to 25% of our deals come from joint ventures and working with people. So you have reached out to me join the mastermind I need to come up with a course because this I'm not bragging. I'm just excited that I've learned all this stuff. It's people that shared stuff with us, you know, in depth research. So we've learned all this really super cool, too. And I could talk for hours about the air stuff. We hardly even got into that. There's so many exit strategies when you're doing airs and stuff. It's just It's crazy. It's a good time, man. I appreciate your time. I appreciate Uncle Carl and friends mastermind go check it out is worth it, as you can see provides value freely and there's plenty of information out there and you can use this specialized knowledge to make a lot of money with it. You just got to take action. It's got to take action. Take action. All right. What do you make your own luck? Get the like your own like to take action. I appreciate your time. Catch us on the next episode. Uncle Carl. Thanks for coming on. It was a great episode. All right. Thanks.

Daniel Esteban MartinezProfile Photo

Daniel Esteban Martinez

Host/ Ceo/ Speaker

I have been an entrepreneur since 2018. I come from a regular home just like most people. My dad worked on the roads in the Chicago area for over 30 years. He always taught me to work with my brain, instead of my body. Your body can only take so much abuse. I learned so much from my father. He always pushed me to work smarter and not harder.

I have owned and operated a trucking business for 2 years. I started learning real estate in 2019. Fell into the Data & Skiptracing business in 2020. My partner Anthony & I started Hivemind in 2021.

I have done a ton of different jobs coming up from painting, to door-to-door sales, telemarketing, truck driving, and loading trailers. What I learned most is that I want to stay in the digital business space. The leverage you can have delivering digital products to the marketplace can yield limitless possibilites.

I started The List Guys in 2020. It is a data and skiptracing service. We provide seller and buyers list nationwide. My clients have been getting great results and I am proud to help people killing it.

I started the Hive in 2021 with my partner Anthony Gaona. It is a real estate and business mastermind. It also comes with a all in one CRM, that can host unlimited websites and users.

Starting the Hivemind has been an amazing journey so far. Seeing one of our users make his 6 figure month in June 2021 leveraging our software, I know there will be plenty more to come!

Anthony GaonaProfile Photo

Anthony Gaona

Host/ Ceo/ Speaker

Hi! I am Anthony Gaona.
I’ve been in digital marketing for almost 15 years.I grew up in construction working for my dad when I was only 12 years old. Normally we had a ton of work or no work at all so a lot of my free time was spent learning how to generate leads.

It didn’t take very long for me to master online marketing because I became absolutely obsessed with it. For the last 15 years I’ve been generating construction based leads. At first I was running the projects myself. This led to sub-contracting all of the excess projects and eventually wholesaling the leads off to other construction companies.

One day I was preparing to build a single family residence for myself. In mid December, 2018, a simple YouTube search led me to the term wholesaling and the rest is history. The plan was to use my construction background to start flipping houses. By January 1st of 2019 I launched several marketing campaigns both on and offline for real estate seller leads.

Within about 4-5 weeks I had my first real estate contract locked up. It didn’t take long for me get a land lead where I made almost a full year’s pay on a single transaction. This came from a land lead and that forever changed my life.

I ran low volume larger land deals for the first two years of my real estate career. Like anyone who has been in real estate investing for an extended period of time, I started thinking about scaling my business.

Instead of deciding to vertically integrated and start hiring I imagined a model where I would teach my real estate investing methods to others. This would free up my personal bandwidth and allow for unlimited large scale transactions.

Currently our operations are expanding globally. The goal is to identify one person per major US Market that we can build a team around and drive traffic to so we can close high volume transactions together.

You can learn more about our vision and join our free mastermind by joining hivemind CRM on Facebook and all social channels

Karl Spielvogel