Hey guys, this is Anthony from the hive mind, welcome to a another episode of the high with this podcast. Today is a very, very, very special day we have a very special guest on. A lot of you are going to recognize this gentleman if you do not, I'll just tell you that I started following his content on YouTube before I even got into real estate investing. Before I even decided that land was going to be my niche. So I'm excited about today's podcast, man, this is like my, I feel like I'm gonna dream right now even say his name Come on, Anthony, you're rusty at this. I want you to show his picture that way. You can be like, Oh, I know this guy. Who today says kind of flip it on its head because I got into land investing because of Seth Williams to do I didn't know that. At the time, I was tricked out of your time. So I am. And this is one of the biggest reasons why I do podcasting in general, is because I am a product of podcasting from Seth Williams here. So I listened to a couple of podcasts. I was like Steve train, Seth Williams, and one of the person I listen to Tim Ross's podcast and the first few episodes, but like literally, the reason why I'm in podcasting is right here. So yeah, that's crazy. Man. I have any impact on you guys. That's awesome. I mean, it's it really is. I told Steve train those two because I talked to him the other day. And I told him that tune. He's like, really? I'm like, Yeah, I'm like, Yeah, because like, when the thing is, is that people that produce content, they separate themselves to become an impact or an impact the world. And you don't really know the impact you make. So you have conversations like this. So I really wanted to impact you because you impacted us. And it comes full circle at some point. And it's going to happen to us because now we're impacting other people, too. So now, there's like this, like the true branch, you've impacted so many lives that is now impacting other lives, and it kind of spreads. So you, Mr. Seth Williams, I appreciate you and appreciate all that you do just because it does. It has made a difference. And I commend you for for the consistency and everything that you do. And I appreciate it, man, because I would not be here where I am right now. Without you. Yeah, that is very cool. Thanks, guys. I appreciate that. It's the funny thing. I I met some people early this year that I I thought, you know, I think they're a big deal. And they were telling me Yeah, like I've been listening to you for years. I was like, Are you serious? Like that's crazy. You just never know who's, who's listening. And who's watching. And, I mean, you guys probably know like, you sort of feel like you're just in this little silo and you don't really see what's going on in the world. But occasionally you get these glimpses. And it's, it's awesome to see that and sometimes you don't know tell us after the fact like with you guys. So thanks for letting me know. That's really cool. Yeah, if you guys haven't checked out the REI tipster blog, Rei tipster on YouTube, I suggest you do so now. And you will not be disappointed lots of cool content that you put on there, man, lots of cool people that you've interviewed and value brought to the world. So let's get into it, man. We can kind of go any direction that you want on this on this show. It's kind of just like all about you type of show. But I would like to know, I think first and foremost, you know, like I said, Daniel, and I didn't know until right now this one second that Daniel started following you early before he got into the real estate game, so that it probably explains the land crush that he had. We both found that out usually about each other before we even, you know, became business partners that we were both in a mastermind that we were both the only ones that were interested in land there. So a lot of our viewers man or our newer people that we they get involved, you know, they subscribe to our CRM, and they kind of need some direction, right? So you with all your experience, you know, you've been there done that? What would you suggest that somebody who's just getting started might begin their their land investing career? Well, do you mean like, somebody who's kind of looking at the land opportunity, and they're curious about giving it a try, but they don't know, like, where to work or what the first step should be like, Is that Yeah, because a lot of people, you're just about houses, right? And so that's how everybody talks about so when they hear about us, and they're like, You guys are doing land like what what do you mean, how does that work? So if somebody wants to either get started or pivot, you know, where is it good. Where are you starting in land, or where do you have your new people start? Yeah. Well, I mean, I think if For somebody who's coming from the house world, you'll probably be pleasantly surprised to find that there's not as much competition in land. I wouldn't say there's no competition in the competition. It's probably like higher now than it's ever been that I've been in it. But still comparatively speaking, with no thanks to you. Yeah, sorry about not just me by the web. Yeah, but But anyway, what I was getting at was, was like an ad. Yeah. So compared to houses the competition land is, is just a, it's a much easier thing to find deals like you can do stuff that's not that difficult to find them or his house wholesalers have to work way harder, spend a ton more money to make any headway on it. But, you know, picking a market that you want to work in. I know what a lot of people doing this, but I did say this is the right thing. But I had this idea that I needed to start where I lived. So I just picked the surrounding county, and the county that I lived in. And I just started blasting up to mail there and didn't take long to start finding deals that way. And, and it was a crazy thing, the first time I made the offer for like a few 100 bucks. And somebody said yes, just like are you serious? Like I'm holding a piece of paper that's worth 1000s of dollars right now. And just prior to that, I had tried to find a lot of deals on houses. And I knew how hard it was. And just to go from that, to the simplicity of getting landlords, it was just, it was an amazing thing. And then when it started happening again and again, and again, it's like wow, like this is actually a sustainable system. It's really just picking picking a market. And I think there's definitely depending on whether you want to deal with less competition or have properties that sell faster, or go after more valuable parcels, like different markets can bring different things to the table in terms of benefits. But I mean, the deals are everywhere. It's just a matter of getting started. And the sooner you do get started versus just like listening about it and reading about it. Like when you really start moving. You learn a ton of stuff really quickly about what does and doesn't work while you're trying to do it. So do you have a methodology that you use, like to get a new person started? Like how to identify a market, which might be good, maybe something that's not quite oversaturated? Yet, maybe you end up tomorrow? I've seen people post these like desert parcels and like, how the heck did they even find that? Yeah, those people make money on those things. It's kind of crazy. First time I saw it, I almost couldn't believe it. I was like, because I, I had spent my first several years in Michigan, which is the opposite of a desert. And in my mind, like that was the standard. Like that's what people want. But I was mistaken. Like, there's a lot of stuff like I knew in Southern California, for example, stuff that stuff that you made a ton of money from, and it's in the desert. And I was just like, what, I don't get it. But I don't know if it's the proximity to LA and San Diego or what it is. But yeah, I mean, in terms of picking a spot that's, that's not saturated. And I guess the word saturated, there's different definitions on what that means, and like how busy it places, but yeah, well, I know, for a long time, the thing that I was pointing people to was places where the land is going to sell faster, because usually the bottleneck that people experience historically anyway, like where people start feeling stuck is when it comes time to sell it, and they list it and they post it. And they just sit there, and they're waiting, and they're waiting, and they're like, come on, come on, somebody buy this thing. And it's frustrating, because like your money's tied up, you can't keep moving forward. And don't let me buys it. So knowing that that has historically been the bottleneck. A lot of times I tell people go where it's gonna sell faster, most likely. And you can figure that out by sort of understanding where do people want to be like, What places have intrinsic value? Where do people buy land from out of the country just because they want to own land in that area. And, you know, I mean, historically, places like that have been like Florida, California, you know, a lot of the Southwest. And I don't know that that's, I mean, things may be changing a little bit just with where things are at right now, where it's getting a little harder to find deals and properties are actually selling faster and for more money. So that whole formula may be worth reevaluating a bit depending on on what your issue is and what you're looking for. But so that's one way to go about it is just to look at places where the land is selling faster. And there's lots of ways to see this. I mean, you can go to a website like Zillow, and really quickly get a feel for you know, how many properties are listed. How many days on the market are they typically and click on a few listings and figure out how many views have they gotten? How many people have saved this listing? Like how much interest is there in this area? Things like that. Getting Started Have you some indicators? And yeah, so I mean, that's, that's one way to go about it. Another way to go about it. So if you wanted to focus on areas where it's maybe easier to get deals and less saturated, so to speak, you could go to I mean, I don't know, I don't know if I can give you like specific counties or anything but sort of reverse engineer, that whole thing I just said about where where's land gonna sell really fast, like, just forget about that for a minute, and go to like some rural areas where there's not a ton of booming growth, and there's not tons of people headed to that area. Those are areas where you'll probably have an easier time, or you could whittle down your list a little bit differently in terms of focusing on like, for example, tax delinquent properties, as some people who violently disagree with that approach. And I understand the reasons but getting a list with there's a lot of built in motivation, or problems with these people in their situations. And tax delinquent properties is one of those ways to do that. So you know, they're behind on their taxes, and they're about to lose their property. And if they don't pay off their taxes, soon, they're going to lose the thing. And you can basically find them when they're in that situation before they've lost it, and give them away out. And a lot of times these people are I don't know, it's, I don't understand it, I don't get what the thought process is. But for whatever reason, there's just kind of apathetic, maybe they inherited the property or something. And it would be very easy for them to just put a for sale, sign on the property and sell the thing, but they're never going to do that. And if you don't find them, and give them the easy button, they're gonna lose it. So anyway, that tax delinquent list is one way to go about finding those people and giving them away out for a really low price. So I have a question. With all the doom and gloom of the market changing, what is your go to strategy move into the market? Because I know if people in houses are going to substitute, and that's the big keyword out here, but what's for all the land investors listening today? Or in the future? What what's the what's what's, what strategies they go to? And what what should they pivot to as far as doing land? Yeah, yeah, totally. I think they just didn't, when I first got into land, it was actually, like, I think early 2009 was my I did my first few deals, and it was terrible. I mean, it was like the worst time ever. And I was in Michigan, which was the worst state in the country to be for anything. And I was still able to make it work really well. And even hindsight, I'm kind of surprised I was able to do that. But the reason it worked is because I basically just adhered to the formula of, you know, I was offering 10, to 20 to 30%, at the highest of what the property was worth, but the fact that I was really being considered conservative about what the property was most likely worth. And then basically out of that, it just leaves you this huge built in profit margin. So it's just really hard to get hurt on that. There were times when it took longer than I wanted it to, to sell. But that's not really any different from any other time, really. But I would say, you know, probably not if but when a recession starts to hit us, just pay really close attention to what's going on, and how quickly things are slowing down and how fast property values are changing, which is already kind of a hard thing. And it's even harder with vacant land. But you know, basically just don't, don't get apathetic, don't, don't shoot from the hip when you're trying to come up with your property valuations, and keep those offers on the low end. And sometimes I think if you're in a hyper competitive market, and I kind of say that tongue in cheek, because hyper competitive means something very different for land people than house people. But if you're in a competitive market, and if you can't, if you can't get deals, making 10 to 20% offers based on lower values, then maybe don't work in that market anymore. Or make sure you have some kind of a plan B, even if you have to, like breakeven to get out of the thing. Just make sure you're in a position where you're not going to lose money or lose your shirt on the deal. And we've been in this rising price environment for a couple years now where it's like, people can't go out on a limb and offer more than they normally would or should, because values are just going up and up. And it's really hard to get hurt, but that's not going to last forever. It's not sustainable. So I think the time is coming, where it's going to be slowing down and maybe even going backwards. So just be aware of that and maybe try to temper any temptations, you have to offer more than you you should be offering. So, of course that also, you know, if you're planning to like alter the property or improve it, that kind of changes things up a little bit too. But I guess what I just said there is in relation to properties that you're not going to touch you just gonna flip the thing. That's what I was gonna ask. So has your strategy evolved? I can imagine from the from 2009 until now is a two part question. How has your strategy evolved over time and then with the The pending recession right looming recession, do you would you move over to a wholesale model? Are you still going to, like plunge ahead with just closing on it and just listening and just waiting it out? Yeah. You know, I mean, flipping and not making any changes or improvements has pretty much always been what I've done, just because I get it. It's simple. And I don't have to learn a whole new thing. And there's, there's an opportunity cost to that. I mean, there's deals I'm walking away from where I could make a ton of money. And but I think at some point, there's opportunity cost, everything. So it's just kind of the path I've chosen. There's one property I bought last year, where I have actually made changes to it, and I'm trying to improve it. But that's kind of an exception. I think, I think in terms of like, wholesaling, if you mean like a signing of the contract, is that what you mean, when you say or double close or any of those? Yeah, so I've done that in the past. And it's not like my first course of action. Like, that's not the first thing I'm trying to do. Just because it can get a little, a little muddy with trying to like communicate with multiple parties and insert yourself in the in, there's the middleman. There's certainly some benefits to it, though, you'd have to tie up much of your on cash. But but but I have done it. And I think what it comes down to is like having the tools in your tool belt like knowing Okay, now this fits that mold, I'm gonna go that direction, as opposed to just militantly sticking to one strategy at all costs. Because there's, it's kind of like a seller financing thing to like, I don't really like doing seller financing these days, it's just I don't know, I mean, I know how to do it, I've done it plenty of times. But just with that experience, it's like, oh, if I like this, I'm gonna stick the cash when I can. But it's not like I'm always gonna say no to seller financing. If I've got a property that isn't selling any other way, like, I'm willing to go there. It's just, I don't really want to. So I think being aware of other options and knowing how to do it if the time comes. And maybe even like, just doing it just because once just see you like you can say, Okay, I've done it. I know what's involved with that. I've experienced that. And now I actually can, you know, intelligently decide if I want to keep doing that or not, as opposed to just thinking you understand what's involved in saying no, or that kind of thing. So we interviewed Clinton Turner and cleanser, he's like really big on buying, like, big parcels on subdividing it. Yeah, it's a it's definitely a different, different model as a whole. But I'm really, I'm laughing because you said, I don't really like owner financing anymore. I see the value in it. And we integrate concern, or he said that was like his major strategy when he first started. And like he was going to hit like his goals like 50,000 and cashflow a month, that's like five years to get that. But like you're like, No, I'm gonna take the cash. Yeah, well, I mean, when we say seller financing, and I guess it's not that I don't see the value. And I totally understand. I mean, I think for land investors, especially like, it makes a ton of sense, like probably more so than any other type of real estate I know about just because of how banks won't usually lend on land, to like, I totally get why people do it. And, you know, I did it for a time. But I think for me, some of the drawbacks that I didn't really appreciate or enjoy, we're, especially if you start doing it in multiple states, every state has a different set of laws on like, how it works if you want to get your property back, or if you can get your property back. And if you're not doing any background, or credit checks, like people are absolutely going to flake out and stop paying you. And then you gotta go through these motions. And sometimes it's totally worth that, you know, it's not a big deal. But if, if especially if it's like a super cheap property, like 10, grand or less, it's just like, seriously, like adding to all this stuff just for this 50 bucks a month, you know, 50 bucks a month payment. So just kind of the, I guess the BS, for lack of a better word, just not not wanting to deal with that. And also, like, you gotta get the documentation, right, you got to figure out the payment collection process. You got tax implications, accounting gets more complicated. All this stuff can be dealt with. And it's worth dealing with, if the deal makes sense. And if the cash flow is there. Also, it takes longer to get your money back your to get your profit and move on to the next deal. Whereas with cash, like, even if I'm selling for less like, I've got my money now I can keep moving. And I think if people care a lot about the cashflow and the stability than like, absolutely like seller financing is probably going to give that to you. But if that's not your main concern, if you'd rather have big influxes of cash, you can take that cash moving on to something else, then cash sales might make more sense for you. So there's just different things to consider. Yeah, I definitely like grabbing the cash and moving on to the next deal but we're doing some some larger tracks like we're just closed one where they put 100k down, and they're gonna pay 2000 a month. So it's like, I will take a couple of those, that's usually how I vet them out, I usually look for 50% down no matter what size property it is. So even if it's 100,000, or $200,000, property 50% down, and that's your credit check, because they're less likely to default if they have that kind of investment. Now, I also think it when you're looking at the deal, like sometimes people offer seller financing is like, almost as an act of desperation, because they can't solve a thing any other way. And maybe the property like wasn't a great one to get in the first place. So sometimes it's almost like the deal is designed to fail, because those things, but if you have something like that, where like, there's clear value there, people want it, like your buyer has the means to put 50% down. Like it really mitigates a lot of the issues that would have been there in the first place, you know. So I think if we're dealing with that kind of thing, like it just has to make a lot more sense. And even if you start going through the process of like actually vetting your borrowers and making sure they're good for it, and verifying their debt to income and make sure they have the means to pay it and that kind of thing. Like they're probably not going to default on you, you know, it's okay to get into a long term relationship with them. Because the risk is kind of been handled for the most part. Whereas I know a lot of times I hear people talking about, yeah, like, I don't care who you are, if you have a pulse, you're approved, let's do it. And that's a, it's just a different, you know, you should expect problems, if that's what you're gonna do. So, have you evolved over the years? Cuz I didn't know you realize? 2009? That's 13 years? That's a long time. Yeah, like a lot more experienced than both of us. But it's one of those things where, like, we've seen a lot of people evolve, like into commercial and doing multifamily. And all this stuff, have you gone down that path, you're just strictly doing land? How to Yeah, I'm trying to, yeah, I, for me, and I think for most people, you know, I guess I can't speak for everybody. But for me, land is like, kind of break it up into like stage one. And stage two, or stage two is kind of like the final destination or where you want to go. And land stage one, it's like the cash generating machine that gives you the cash. So you can then move on to some kind of buy and hold thing, or even like something outside of real estate, some of their bigger investment, that's going to kick off cash flow. But if you just had your job, it would take you forever to get enough cash to get to stage two. Whereas stage one with land, it just, it's an amazing thing, where it gives you the means to move there a lot faster. So for me, at this point in time, I may change my mind on this. But this point in time, where I want to go is more into the Self Storage world. You know, acquiring those things. And I wouldn't say it's a passive business by any means. But it's it's much less intense on the property management end of things. And I've actually been moving super slow on this, I I've been trying to get into this for almost three years now. And I, a year ago, I bought a vacant lot that I changed the zoning on it. And I'm for it's taken so long, but for the past year, we've been trying to plan out the project, and we're hopefully gonna break ground in the next like, month or so. But I've said that for several months, so who knows, but, but hopefully we're gonna start moving on this soon. And that'll be my first facility that we're building from the ground up. And and that's actually kind of a backwards way to go about this. I think most people are probably better off buying an existing facility and just you know, rehabbing it maybe if they need to, because building from the ground up is much more complicated. It's kind of makes me want to pull my hair out sometimes. But But anyway, to answer your question. That's where I'm trying to evolve. And also just running Ari tipster. That's been it's a very time consuming thing to run a website like Ari tipster. And that's taken up a ton of time to and it's been super fun. I've enjoyed it a lot. So I don't see it as a waste of time. But that's kind of occupied a lot of my time over the years in sort of held me back from pursuing these other things that I would have loved to do sooner. I'm really glad you mentioned that, because that's what makes us unique, because I do all those social media branding podcast side and he doesn't. Kind of like we kind of split split for us to create a better thing because running a podcast and blog is nuts. Yeah, it is. Yeah, it's something that you know, a lot of people in our position, alright, I don't, I don't hear people talking about it very much. Like how difficult that is. It's insane. Like, you can really, like, destroy any margin in your life. If you try to do both to the Full Tilt. You kind of have to. I mean, I think you can certainly outsource stuff to an extent, but like at the end of the day, If you can only pay attention to so many things, well, at the same time, something's going to suffer. You can't do perfect work at both. Yeah. So for me, I spend probably 35 hours a week doing Ari tipster stuff. And the other five hours a week goes into land for the most part, and it's starting to split off into the Self Storage stuff now. So yeah, so for me, like, I'm not a high volume land investor, I'm really not it's, you know, I'm basically doing the deals so that I can stay relevant and stay aware of what's going on. And it's not it used to be about like, how much money can I make for myself? And that's all was, you know, I don't do a deal unless it's making money. But it's less about that now. And more about, like, what lessons are in this deal? You know, like, what do people need to know, that I'm learning from in the struggle of this deal right now. And that, that has a lot to do with the content that ends up getting put together in architecture? It's from what I'm, you know, figuring out in my land business. So, yeah. That's amazing. That's cool, man. It's that's something that I don't have to deal with. And then Daniel doesn't have to think about the real estate side. But yeah, he runs all the back end and everything else that we have going on a million moving parts, but I think it sounds like a good partnership. Yeah, it was a good like, that was the original hive minds. Like he's facing this direction. I'm facing that direction. And yeah, we're doing some damage. And in both areas. Yeah. I think we're doing a lot of cool deals, lots of creative finance deals. Like, we didn't even realize it. We're doing notable deals that people are like, wow, you put that together. Like I traded a, I got a sub two house. And then I traded it for commercial property. You know, so we did a swap like that. So like just kind of crazy stuff that we put together, just from, like you said, just from having the experience grabbing the deals, and then seeing what we can learn from each one has been really cool. Yeah, you guys like to like CO own an LLC that does these deals or your different policies partner something or how's that work? Yeah, several LLC that were some stuff together some stuff separate. But yeah, it's pretty complex. Yeah. And I think it's getting worse, because now we're looking at, you know, rolling out a marketing company. And so it's all stuff that's like, layered into what we're already doing. So I don't think we're wearing too many hats again, because each one of us is focusing in a different direction. Yeah. Yeah. I bet a lot of people would love to hear about that. Maybe you've already talked about it. I just don't know. But I think that partnership thing, it's something a lot of people are curious about, like, how do you make this work? Because there's a lot of ways to, you know, join forces together with somebody else, but many different ways to structure it. And sometimes a certain way makes more sense than another. And people might be interested to hear about how you guys have made it work. Sounds like is working. Yeah. Being good at separate things, completely separate things like the stuff that he's great at, like a genius that I couldn't even touch it not interested, like, I would just hire somebody else. And so I think that was that was the fit is like, he's never going to like encroach on what I'm doing, or trying to enforce his ideas on like on the real estate side. And I would never do that to him either. But like, hey, we need things to start going this way, because I'm not in the trenches, like he is not in the trenches like I am. So I think that's where the balance lies is. And I never have to call him and say, Hey, are you working? I mean, I know he's just busting his ass all day. And then I'm doing the same thing. So yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Very cool. So there's a question I want I want to get answered. And that was that was gonna say, too, it's a partnership works when you don't conflict. thing, and I was pretty much what you just said. But um, I've been looking into the blog thing, because, I mean, we're doing the podcast and yeah. Do you write your own stuff? Is that all you? If it says Seth Williams, no, then yeah. If I didn't write it, then it'll say whoever wrote the thing. So So Seth Williams is a full time content creator. That's what he is. And blog writer because I hate writing. And I'm like, I've like I need to, I need to find a writer. And like, that's like, that's literally what you do. And it's amazing. It's amazing to see your cross. And it's even to put it in perspective. You do 35 hours of tipster stuff and then five hours of real estate. That's, that's amazing to put in perspective, because a lot of people think that you're doing all this real estate, I'm like, I'm not doing all this real estate as he is. I'm not doing it. Yeah, it's. Yeah. I mean, there's in terms of finding writers, I mean, that's a good luck. That's not an easy thing to do. I mean, there's certainly plenty of writers out there. But if you want somebody who like, I can't really do it to balance either. I found a handful of people over the years that I think are pretty good. But there are, man, just dozens of people I've tried to work with who are just, it's just not there. You know, like, either they don't care about what they're writing about, or they don't have the experience or it's just a mess. You can't understand what they're trying to say. And yeah, and in the internet, I think I think it's changed over a bit since I started doing this. It used to be blogs were kind of a big thing. But I think podcasts are kind of the new thing now where I think they're easier to consume and people can do it in there. commute or just working out or whatever. Whereas with with a blog, you can have to sit there and just like, have your undivided attention to read the thing. And video to I think it's a much bigger deal now. And yeah, there's there's all kinds of different directions and go with it. And I know, I think what most people would be best suited to do is like, pick one of those and get really good at that whatever it happens to be. And yeah, and just realize, like, you can't do it all. No, I will take that. I will take the answers. It's one of those things where like, I try we, me, and I'm always on him to try and like, produce content, different ways, because different mediums, stuff like that. But that blog thing I'm like, looks like a something I don't want to do. I'm glad you said that, too. Because it's a whole nother it's a full time job. Yeah, they can be. Yeah, it's already busy. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And it's, I think, for me, like, I didn't realize I would enjoy it until I started doing it. Like I hated writing papers. And I was terrible at it. Like I almost failed my first English one on one class when I was in college. So I got I was not somebody who was good at this. But it's a very different thing when you're writing about something you really care about. And you really want the person on the other end to like, walk away with something and have this aha moment and change their life. It's almost like if you were talking to your child or your sibling, and like you really wanted to set them up well for the future. Like, what would you tell them? Like how would you empathize with them and help them see the pitfalls and just understand the truth really about like not, you're not selling them on stuff, you're just saying, this is how this works. Watch out for this. And this is what you're best suited to do in this kind of stuff. It's a very different thing, when you have a reason to communicate well. And some people can do that well through the written word. And I mean, some nice things about it is that it's, I guess, depending on who you are, I find it's even though it's time consuming, it's not particularly hard to make written content, like with a video, like, the lighting has got to be right, my facial expression, it has to be okay, I have to wear the right thing. My My voice has to sound right, I have to actually see the right like, there's so many things that have to be dialed in for a good video, it's very easy to screw it up. Whereas with a blog, it's like, even if you do screw it up, just go back and edit the thing and have to reshoot the whole video. So yeah, anyway, let me ask you, because I just have a marketer's brain and it never switches off. So since you guys are covering all this, what do you do with that blog traffic? Do you have like some kind of training or something where those people go to? Or what's the next step? If somebody wants to, you know, go deeper down the rabbit hole with you into the land game? Yeah, so I, when I started my blog, I sort of built it sort of to emulate another blogger that I was following at the time, which is Pat Flynn of smart, passive income.com. And something that really blew me away about what he was doing. It had nothing to do with real estate, but it was just like super high quality content, like stuff that was worth paying for. But it was free. And, and, but the thing was, he was like actually making money from it, and a lot of money. And I was like, how are you making money, like you're not selling anything, I don't feel like I'm being pitched on stuff. But he was doing it by at the time in a way. He's got various affiliate links that he doesn't just like throw an affiliate link out there. He like really explains what it is and how it works and who it isn't, isn't for. And then he's got other random things that he sells. And so that's kind of how Ari tipster works to, there is like probably the most, the big flagship product is the land investing masterclass, that land investing masterclass.com. And that's like a big high ticket course. And a lot of people have been through it and had a great experience with it. But even if a person doesn't have the money, or doesn't want to do that, or isn't even looking for land investing stuff, there's still a ton of stuff ton of value and education they get for free. Just by hanging on the blog. I mean, whether you're trying to figure out how to set up your business phone system or mailbox or, I mean, it just isn't 1000s of hours putting this stuff together with this approach in mind of like, this should change your life, and you shouldn't have to pay for it. And if you do want to use this thing I'm talking about awesome. Here's an affiliate link for you. If you don't, no problem, if you want to go somewhere else, you can still use this information for that. And I, I love it because I'm a pretty terrible salesperson. Like I just I'm not good at trying to convince a person to do something like but what I can do is just show you how something works. Like this is just what this is. Here you go. This is what I didn't didn't like about it. So there you go. And people find value in that I don't really have to sell stuff because if if they want to do it, they'll do it. And if they don't, they don't and I'm finding the way so That's kind of kind of the bones of how our tipster works. Your content did change my life. So that's awesome. That's a cool quote that I heard recently it was that is make your free stuff so valuable that you know that other people are paying for it. Yeah, actually, people, people rip our stuff off all the time. Like, it's kind of crazy. I find that the blogs, just copy and paste our articles onto theirs. And just like, yeah, on one hand, it's annoying, but and then he was just like, I don't think that's, yeah, it's yeah, that too. I guess I try to take it as a compliment. But it's also just not the best long term sustainable strategy to build something. So whatever. I try not to get too worked up about it. Hey, listen, why don't we chat about that masterclass real quick? Do you want to tell us where we can find it? What's included in the price point? Yeah, sure. So land investing masterclass.com, it's where you can see pretty much everything about it. But it's basically intended to be like an A to Z nuts and bolts course on how to start and grow your land investing business, and took me a little over eight years to put this thing together. Full of videos, lots of downloads, audio files, stuff, you can, you know, contracts, just kind of plug and play stuff. The thing I hear from a lot of people is it's like, it's almost overwhelming how much information is in there. But it's set up in such a way that you don't have to go through every single word from start to finish. Like it's, it's almost like a playbook like you can skip around or whatever part you're most interested in, there's a really effective search function in there. So if you're just looking for one specific thing, like just search for it, and you'll find it. But yeah, it's, it's a course that I have. I'm in there probably every month or two to update or add something. So this is not like a something I made 10 years ago, and it's not relevant anymore. It's something that I stay on top of. And if somebody wants more help on something like I do it, I'll add it to the course. So it's kind of this constantly evolving thing that continues to grow. And there's also monthly Office Hours calls where we do a call kind of like this with whoever wants to join and we can answer questions for people I'm kind of give him live feedback on what's going on. And, and for the price point, there's two different prices. There's a bunch of bonuses that they're I think they're super helpful, but it's, it's kind of like phase two, once you kind of understand the business and you want to level it up a little bit. These bonuses will come into play. So if you want the full thing, it's 9097 if you want just the main course, it's 1497 for that for the basic one. Oh man, that's such a great price. When you saying high ticket my brain goes to like 20 grand, like two grand for all the knowledge that you put together for eight years, like Holy smokes, man. Yeah, yeah. It might be too cheap, honestly. But I don't know. That was us to like we did initially we created a course before we decided to go with like a community based like mastermind like around the the CRM. That's what we were thinking, you know, maybe like five grand or something like that. But like, you know what, let's just grab some people and just make everybody be hands on. But yeah, I can really respect that man for two grand. All the knowledge that you guys can pick up for for that amount. I would definitely jump on that right away. Somebody asked in our group today, who has a good classic, uh, you know, in depth land class, and then here we are 10 seconds later. Yeah, recommend that. Everybody get that? What was that website again? One more time. land investing masterclass.com. Boom. Okay, awesome, man. Yeah, thanks for that. You bet. So I really, really liked that. One thing that I think separates you from a lot of different people is consistency. Consistency consistency. Like you really you really drill down to what your passion is. How do you prevent burnout? Yeah, good question. Yeah, cuz I know, I both would land and with this blogging thing, people burn out of both of those things very easily. And I understand why. There's a guy named Parker Palmer, I heard a quote from him years ago, he said, playing a slot of this, but some of the effective burnout is a result of trying to give something that I never had to give in the first place. So it's like, basically, it's you're not gonna burn out. If you really love what you're doing. Like if if it's a priority for it, if you get if it's a life giving activity for you, you're never gonna burn out, you know? And I think people burn out when I don't know if they get bored or it's I don't know Know the passion isn't there anymore? But for me, I think like, I know what it's like to struggle into fail at stuff. And just the disappointment of that I remember for years wondering like, am I ever going to make it, you know, like, is my job all there is to life like is this is this pathetic, like, there must be something more pleased on me there's something more. And I just, it's a really it's kind of a dark place to be when you don't, you don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, you don't know if it's there, or if it's just this imaginary thing that people talk about. And when I finally started to see the light, and experienced it firsthand, it was like, man, you're just this amazing thing. And I love helping other people see that. And I, I just, I never forgot what that was like to experience the struggle, and then experience the breath of fresh air of discovering the way and then getting there. And it's just, it's an amazing thing to hear people like you guys, for example, just saying that, what I did made a difference in some way. And maybe it's just a little difference, maybe just entertainment. Maybe it was like, Hey, I paid for my kids college, right? paid off my student loans, or I quit my job or, I mean, huge stuff. And I'm like, I cannot believe I did that. I mean, I kind of can because I know how powerful this stuff is. But it's just crazy that like, you know, I put this effort into it. And it really made a difference for people. So hearing that kind of stuff as well. Kind of makes burnout, not something that I think about because it's like, how could you burn out of something that cool when you see the difference you're making? So and that's that's such a good answer. Man, I feel the same way to man. I'm like, there's the passion that comes along with it that makes always want to be wanting to do this, like, really enjoyable. And making an impact is priceless, man. It's priceless. So I've really enjoyed that. But um, how do you balance work life balance, because a lot of people struggle with I mean, I think all of us struggle to a certain point where like, whatever your passion is, you'd always put too much pressure on it to do more, as always, there's always something to do. Yeah. You know, it used to be a lot harder than it is today. Yeah, I remember the days when I've been working full time job, and doing land and rental properties and trying to do architecture. I mean, it was, I don't know how I did it. Honestly, it was crazy. I think it was just a couple of years there of just insanity where like I didn't have any time to rest. These days, it's it's much more manageable. Without the job because I can, I can kind of just pick and choose what I want to focus on. I mean, there's some weeks where it's way more heavy inland. And that's all I'm doing in other weeks where it's way more heavy and Ira tips here are some days when I'm like really entrenched in this self storage project I'm trying to figure out, but like, the end of the day, I get to decide what I'm gonna do. There's nobody like barking at me telling me what I have to do. And just that alone, being able to make that decision is a huge deal. It just the just psychologically the freedom that comes with that. But yeah, I mean, in terms of the balance thing. So there's this understanding in my house anyway, that once 5pm hits, I'm done, like my kids are running in here, work is impossible. Like I gotta just disconnect and be finished. And I am. And the other discipline, I guess, is like just putting my phone down throughout the evening. And when I'm not at work, so I'm not like, bugged by that. But it's actually not that hard once, at least with my wife. She's pretty strict about that. Like, I don't, I can't really get away with anything. So yeah, maybe it just helps to have that kind of built in system. If I was a single person. I would, man, I would probably just work all the time. Never stop. Because like, I really enjoy it. It's not, it's not, it's not like work to me, it's like, kind of like play in a way. If nobody was there, you know, cracking the whip and telling me to stop, I would just keep going. Which is like, I can't believe I'm saying that because I used to hate my work when I used to, you know, do things that weren't this. So it's I just never thought I'd be in a position where I would enjoy my work this much. But yeah, so I think having people in your life who sort of force you to balance it out, helps a lot. But that's my solution. Anyway, how do you guys do it? Go ahead. I was gonna say I think I took control of, I guess my time in my life. I've been self employed for, I don't know, 15 years or something or more. But I stopped setting an alarm clock a couple years ago, right around Christmas time. And I did this for like the last I was taking off the last two weeks of every year for the last several years. And then this is like December. I want to say it was 2020 I just said you know, I'm just not going to set an alarm clock for the rest To the year like early December, and it just stuck, like I wrote into January. And it's no more alarm clock, no more 8am meetings, you know, all my meetings are going to be at 10 3011 o'clock from now. So I think that's probably been one of the biggest changes, because if I, if I own my morning, then I can kind of visualize my day, I can do any kind of like morning rituals, prayer, meditation, all that stuff. And then so as the day comes, it's not hitting me like a ton of bricks. So I don't feel like I'm playing, ever playing catch up, because I can strategically move into my day. I think that was probably the biggest game changer for me. And then, like you said, being in a position both financially and as far as like work burdens go is where nothing is. So pressing that I just have to jump on it right now. Like, kind of let things come as they go. And then that's made it very easy for me to just take charge of my day. Yeah, so I feel like I can still do a lot of volume. And I'm okay with working late. And then, unfortunately, my wife is an enabler, right? Because she just knows that I'm just gonna just do whatever I'm gonna do. So she, like, just just keep on plunging ahead. You know, I know, she knows I'm gonna make good decisions. And yeah, I will work around the clock, like, same thing. Like you said, if I didn't have the littles and the wife at home, I would just work 25 hours a day and not even think twice about it, because I really do love it. Yeah, yeah. What a blessing that is, though, you know, I mean, I don't know many people who, you know, the analogy I used to make and still make, I guess, is like, when I show up in this office in the morning, I kind of feel like a kid who's running to the gates at Disney World. Like, it's that level of excitement. Like, I can't believe I get to do this. There's gonna be so much fun. What is gonna happen today? And that's just a lot of people never find that. So if anybody gets even halfway to that point, like, that's just very fortunate spot to be in. Yeah. agree with that, man. It's being the freedom of choice to do what you want is priceless. And like, all the money in the world, I'd rather have freedom. Totally. It's crazy. My church is broke. Wow, okay. What is a quote that is yours or somebody else's that you resonate with? Oh, man, I'm actually like, I collect quotes. It's like one of my favorite things to do. Because there's so many good things that have been said in the past. Yeah, yeah, maybe? Well, yeah, one that comes to mind. I don't know if this is the best one. But CS Lewis has this quote, where he said that I don't believe that good work is ever done in a hurry. And I found that to be true. In a lot of ways. Like, the more rushed I am in trying to get something done, like the lower quality my output is going to be. And that's, that's a hard thing to accept. Because a lot of times, like, the world is a fast paced, rushed place. Like everybody's trying to do everything in a hurry. But on people that are able to sit back and kind of have that discipline of like, now, we want quality here, like that's what matters. And especially when you're doing something like I don't know, a video or a blog post or software, something that's going to live in the world for a long time. Like, it's okay to take your time and make sure the thing is good. So it's doing its job well, and not just kind of, you know, a watered down product that's not doing a very good job. Oh, yeah, I use that one all the time. I'm like, you know, how can I rush this? Like, do you think they were saying, like, hurry up and paint the Sistine Chapel and we got to go. Anybody cracking the whip on you? That's a good one, and this is a, the I want to I want to kind of hit a different subject, because a lot of people don't talk about it. But have you ever came across like, like, depression or pressure through your entrepreneurship journey and how you overcame that, because I know a lot of people, they come across different pressures at different stages of their entrepreneurship journey that a lot of people think they can't overcome. So what's something that you've done to kind of overcome those those barriers? Yeah, I don't know if I use the word depression. But anxiety has been a pretty big thing for me in my life. If you guys familiar with the Enneagram personality tests, you ever heard of that? The disc test. Now it's a it's called Enneagram. I, I hadn't heard of it till a couple years ago. But basically, it's like a five minute free test very quickly. It sort of sums up who you are as a person and how you think and I found it to be highly accurate. Like looking at the results. It was like somebody was reading my mind. It was crazy, but my type is a type six, which is the loyalist So like, I'm super loyal. Like when I say I'm going to do something, nothing is going to keep me from doing that it's gonna get done. But one of the downsides to a type six is they, they just worry a lot. Like they think about all the what ifs or like, there was making contingency plans in case something disastrous happens. And that's definitely me. And the good part of that is, I rarely get caught off guard. Like if something bad does happen, I've already foreseen this, like in 10 different ways before it happens. And I'm always kind of prepared as well as I can be, but, but the downside is, like, I'm worried about stuff all the time. And it's, it's terrible. So I've had to, like, basically just concoct ways to deal with that. And, for me, prayer has been a huge thing, just, you know, realizing that I can't do it all. And in the end, I don't actually have a whole lot of control, like, I can worry about it and bend over backwards, but like, God is going to decide which way my life is gonna go. He can make things go well, or not well, so but just like, it's not even just prayer, but like surrender. And surrender in my mind just means like, it's okay. You know, I envision the worst case scenario, and I accept it. Like, even if something awful happens to me, the minute I can accept that, I don't have to agonize over it anymore, because I've already accepted it. You know, it's kind of like forgiving somebody who has wronged you. Like, the minute you forgive them, you can stop thinking about it. And it's not haunting you the rest of your life, we probably all have experiences that people who have like, hurt us, and we just like stew on it. And we just were angry about it. And meanwhile, this person doesn't even know or care, but we're the one suffering because we're not forgiving them. So anxiety is kind of a very similar thing, where this, whatever you got to do to just let it go, and just stop, stop it from eating you alive, you're gonna be way better off. So I think, you know, whether a person is prayerful or not finding a way to just like, release it, and just, you know, mean, control what you can control, and whatever you can't control, let it go. And that's can be easier said than done, for sure. But to the extent that you can do that life will get a lot easier for you, if you have anxiety problems like me, do what a cool, I mean, it's so much wisdom in such a short amount of time. That's amazing man. And that's, I think that's been a big part of my business as well, is I hate to let people down, like no matter who it is, whether it's a friend, a family member, a buyer or seller, and it those kinds of things will keep me up at night, right? I'm not worried about like, financial detriment, or even like hell, like I felt like I'm like, gonna live forever. But that's because if I'm creating or causing pain, even unintentionally, for somebody else, that would drive me nuts. And I do have to spend a lot of time in prayer and meditation. That's very helpful. I've listened to the Dow dishing right, probably 100 times or 200 times on audio on YouTube, whenever I feel overwhelming. It's put on my headphones and do that I do a lot of water fasting. So that brings my energy down and helps me get clarity. I was gonna ask you again for the name of the test. And then somebody asked it on Facebook. Want to write that down? Yeah, cuz I bet you and I are a lot of like, a one on one. Take that. Yeah. So if you the way it's spelled is e n n e Agra M for Enneagram. Test. And I think there's multiple places online where you can actually take the test. There's, there's like, some longer versions of it. But the one that I took was like five minutes. Super simple. But yeah, just, I think the thing to remember is that nobody is strictly one type. Like, I think there's probably like four different types that stand out in me. So it's not like you can really be summed up that specifically, but just kind of understanding like, what is the dominant type in you? Like, what are you susceptible to like, what kind of because like, whatever type you are, like, for example, the type eight, I forget what they're called, I forget the name of it, but it's basically somebody who is sort of domineering, like they're not afraid to tell you the truth and put you in their place and call you out. And the downside to that is that you can come across as a really mean person and become a jerk. But the upside to it is you can stand up to bullies like if people are being terrible people, somebody like me would be like, like too scared to say anything but a type eight is gonna go up there and like stand up for everybody. And so like, Saddam Hussein was a type eight, and Martin Luther King Jr. was a type eight. So like, there's good and bad to every type that there is but just understanding who you are and like what your natural strengths or weaknesses are, and you can identify in what ways am I unhealthy in this type, like, what do I need to watch out for? Where are the flaws In my thinking that I need to try to address in life. That's cool, man. Yeah. And I'm really excited to learn about this. Because yeah, I am the first one to shut down a bully. And like, if we're looking at a group of people, whatever, real quick, you're a healthy type eight right there. I was at a business event one time with with a big we had like 20 or 30 people from my team. And we were out in California and actually had to grab a guy by a shirt and drag him out of the building. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah, he was being that, that aggressive with my team members. And I gave him a couple of verbal warnings, and it didn't work. So that's the bouncers almost threw me out. But I'm like, Hey, I'm doing your job, rope. Keep, I'll keep that in mind. If we ever meet in person and I decide to push you around, I should know that. That's where I gotta I gotta pray and meditate to stay grounded. We also use prayer as a as a business practice, man. So people like when they're working on a really big deal or something when they need that miracle in their life. And they say, what else can we do now? Or wait, like on an offer to get accepted or something? I'm just pray. Can't do nothing else. Just praying can't control it. Right. And so I think that as a business practice, it's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's interesting thing about prayer. It's like, it's not like a cosmic Genie, where you just like, ask for what you want. But, I mean, even psychologically, there's something about acknowledging this is outside of my control. This is the outcome I would like, but I will find a way to be okay, if it does not turn out that way. Like the answer no, is acceptable. And this is how I'm going to be okay. And just like thinking through that, as opposed to just like, putting your head down and plowing forward and forcing your will on the world. It's a, it's a big difference when you can just step back and, you know, loosen your grip a little bit. Yeah, letting go letting go. I think it's huge. It's been a huge part of my business as well, because I was that, you know, all through my 20s. And probably most of my 30s, like, the plow ahead and knock down walls and buildings and everything to get my way and it served me but you'll wear yourself out talk about burnout, you know, when you but if you can just accept every outcome. I think that's that's probably helped provide some some level of mastery. My business is like, it's gonna happen with or without me. Yeah. killing yourself. Yeah, for sure. Dude, this was an awesome interview, we went into some cool spots that I didn't know we were going to head into. So yeah, never heard you talk about before. Maybe I missed it if you have talked about this previously on other podcasts, but man, we just want to say we appreciate your time and energy, not only for what you've done in the past, but for also hanging out with us for an hour here. So it's really amazing, man. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me on, guys. It's good to talk to you. And yeah, let's stay in touch. So I always want to always want to plug in your stuff at the end. So alright, tipster.com. Russ, can people find you online? Is that the main source? Yeah, so it's actually it's our E tipster. Not our ei tipster. But I actually own our ei tips your.com tickets if you go there and just redirected to the right place. So but yeah, Ari tipster and if you go to any social media, website, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, whatever, just type in Ari tipster you'll probably find our stuff out there somewhere. So yeah, feel free to connect, follow, like, whatever you want to do. But that's the podcast too. And yeah, man, I really appreciate you for being so consistently. So hopefully the fruits, you'll never see the full reach of your labor. But I hope you see glimpses every now and then. Yeah, that's you today. Your time, man. It's such an amazing honor to have you on and have this conversation like so. We We know you're the land guy. But let's have meaningful conversations around that. And even life in business. It's makes us kind of separates the land investor to the person. Yeah, absolutely. The conversation. Yeah. And honestly, like, giving us some real stuff. I think it's a lot more fun to talk about than land. Land is kind of like it's kind of like the foundation of it for a lot of people. But there's so much more life beyond that. So I'm glad we could go there. Hey, maybe we can have a part two, and we could talk a little bit more about philosophy and some other stuff would be cool. Yeah, totally. I'm done. I would really enjoy that, though. Yeah. Thank you so much, and we appreciate you man. Thank you. You got it again. You got it. Thanks, guys.